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Old 08-28-2016, 12:50 AM   #1
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Default Credit card Fraud

Apex better check into your credit card security... Looks like you have a problem...
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Old 08-28-2016, 01:22 AM   #2
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Yup. Happened to me right after the first time I ordered from you guys.

Thread on it here:
http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=276845
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Old 08-28-2016, 01:30 AM   #3
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I ordered from you on 8/18 and got hit with almost $1000 in fraudulent charges on 8/25. Check the thread, APEX...there certainly looks to be a pattern.
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Old 08-28-2016, 01:32 AM   #4
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Shitload of people on FB are talking about unauthorized credit charges after buying from Apex.
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Old 08-28-2016, 01:51 AM   #5
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Yikes. I was about to buy from them today and still have my cart open on my phone. No way now!!
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Old 08-28-2016, 07:58 AM   #6
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I am now an ex-customer of Apex Gun Parts. As if I didn't have enough hassles to deal with.
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Old 08-28-2016, 08:34 AM   #7
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I got hit too. Purchased the Npap kit on the 16th, fraud charge for 580 bucks on the 25th.

APEX, you guys are good shit but get some security on your online transaction software please!

BTW, this doesn't dissuade me from ordering from you!

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Old 08-28-2016, 12:18 PM   #8
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Did your cards have that imbedded chip thing in them? I thought that was supposed to cut down on this sort of crap.
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Old 08-28-2016, 12:30 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valleyrat View Post
Did your cards have that imbedded chip thing in them? I thought that was supposed to cut down on this sort of crap.
Only if it's swiped in person, online orders don't utilize the chip
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Old 08-28-2016, 06:44 PM   #10
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I appreciate your comments and bringing your security concerns to my attention. APEX Gun Parts does not, and has not had, a Security issue.

APEX has always been an on-line company and since the day we went live we have devoted time/attention/resources to the security of the web site and internal network computers.
It has always been our goal to make sure that all of our customer’s information is protected.
We regularly test for any possible vulnerabilities that could compromise the web site and have layers of defense for the internal company network.
We have not been notified of a security breach by any of our IT and web site contractors, the bank, the credit card gateway or our card processing company.
We have not detected any vulnerabilities in our systems, or have any evidence that our systems have been compromised.

We use a card processor gateway from a respected company that is the Internet’s largest payment gateway provider with over 375,000 merchants in its user base, so we do not see or store card data, that service provider just lets us know if the charge is accepted or denied.
To be clear we do not store or have access to customer credit card information.

We have always defended against attempts by thieves who try and use stolen card data, as any we miss results in a person getting billed for something they didn't purchase and our products being stolen (we have to absorb the cost of the products and shipping when stolen card data is used for a purchase)

To sum up, we do take security very seriously, and gladly pay the costs to stay on top of the that task.
If I had found proof of a "hack" or intrusion, we would have posted an advisory and sent notices to the affected customers.
It is an unfortunate reality that CC data gets intercepted and copied/stolen in a very large variety of ways.

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Old 08-28-2016, 06:55 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstrobel View Post
Only if it's swiped in person, online orders don't utilize the chip
+1 Mine has the chip but I made my purchase online.

I am no fraud expert but it is quite a coincidence that so many of us have been victims of credit card fraud after making an online purchase from Apex Gun Parts. In my case, the last use of my credit card was a week earlier with Apex (and I don't use my Visa card that much anyway).
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Old 08-28-2016, 06:59 PM   #12
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Several threads about this on other forums right now as well...
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Old 08-28-2016, 07:12 PM   #13
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I just want to thank Apex for helping me with my preps for SHTF & not giving me issues due to my billing address like other companies, when ordering behind enema lines (sic), & shipping gifts to a friend in a free state for his birthday.

Can't fight a commie invasion with 10 round mags, LOL!
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Old 08-28-2016, 07:28 PM   #14
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Apex (and others in the gun community) should take Bitcoin. You can use a third-party processor like BitPay or Coinbase if that makes it easier, with lower fees than credit card processors.

Under the Bitcoin model, neither the seller nor the payment processor ever have the information required to make arbitrary charges against the buyer's account, like with the credit card model.
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Old 08-29-2016, 09:17 AM   #15
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We order from Apex all the time with no issues.

I was promised a hat with my MP5 kits, I didn't get it, but I can let that go haha
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Old 08-29-2016, 02:30 PM   #16
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When you've got this many people, and this is just from AKFiles, getting dinged for fraudulent charges... Doesn't really matter how much "PC talk" you spout off... There's evidently a problem... If it's not Apex then why are you still dealing with the processing company? This is not a new problem.... Your losing customers..... For life....
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Old 08-29-2016, 02:43 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salvo View Post
This is not a new problem.... Your losing customers..... For life....
Though certainly not enough to make a difference to Apex's or any other companies bottom line. For most people, the convenience of using a CC far outweighs the risk and occasional inconvenience of a fraudulent charge.
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Old 08-29-2016, 02:45 PM   #18
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:/
BANG!
placed order from APEX Aug 18th. #100044247
just got a call from CC company today! someone tried to spend over $2000.00 in last few days??
speaking of the devil. is this coincidence?
maybe about every 3-4 years a small fraudulent charge happens to me for $2 to $5 bucks.

do you have any pissed off employees or new ones.
something is going on here!
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Old 08-29-2016, 04:08 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ308 View Post
Though certainly not enough to make a difference to Apex's or any other companies bottom line. For most people, the convenience of using a CC far outweighs the risk and occasional inconvenience of a fraudulent charge.
Agreed... That's the thought that was playing in the back of my mind while writing that....
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Old 08-29-2016, 05:19 PM   #20
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Yeah yall need to look a little harder for an intrusion. Just had to cancel mine.
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Old 08-29-2016, 06:26 PM   #21
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Yeah It usually never happens, but right after I placed an order a few months ago there were fraudulent charges, however I'm sure Apex keeps security up to date, they're pretty professional
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Old 08-29-2016, 08:56 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by jonjairo View Post
Yeah It usually never happens, but right after I placed an order a few months ago there were fraudulent charges, however I'm sure Apex keeps security up to date, they're pretty professional
Thank you for the vote of confidence.
In fact, this morning the company that hosts & maintains the APEX web site & server sent over 4 reports that cover the security of our site from both internal and external scans & tests.
All 4 reports use different tools from different companies.
All 4 reports still show no indicators of problems or any potential vulnerabilities.
Also, keep in mind the credit card processor company watches for fraud trends.
They will cut you off if you are a high risk.
I have been in touch with our gateway provider (more than once) and they tell me everything is secure.

There are just so many devious ways that this card data gets copied/intercepted/read every minute of every day it is understandable that the banks and credit card companies are well prepared for when it happens. They are ready to get another new card into your hands ASAP. Last time I went thru this CHASE just asked a few questions, removed the charge and had a card to me in a few days. I really wonder how often in a 24 hour period they perform this action.

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Old 08-29-2016, 09:04 PM   #23
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jonjairo ..... HUDSON, NH?

HEY, I know that place!
Is "Pete's Gun & Tackle" still open?
I bought my first .22 pistol at that shop.
Ever go to Riley's over in Hookset?
I used to spend a lot of time looking at used guns in that place!

Richard
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Old 08-30-2016, 07:06 PM   #24
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I got a call from the bank weeks ago about a 1000$ order from alibaba, it was around the time I ordered the CETME armorers kit...My bank caught it right away and even if they got the money I know my bank will refund it. APEX is a stand up company and I'm 100% confident that it was not some inside job from APEX directly.

I usually get hit with card fraud anytime I start ordering items from the New Jersey/New York area, this is why I get a new card every 2-3 times a year regardless if it been hacked
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Old 08-30-2016, 09:24 PM   #25
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Yeah it's actually still there, never been to the place in Hookset, but they just opened up a new gun range in Hudson
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Old 08-31-2016, 12:10 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by jonjairo View Post
jonjairo ..... HUDSON, NH?

HEY, I know that place!
Is "Pete's Gun & Tackle" still open?
I bought my first .22 pistol at that shop.
Ever go to Riley's over in Hookset?
I used to spend a lot of time looking at used guns in that place!

Richard


Yeah it's actually still there, never been to the place in Hookset, but they just opened up a new gun range in Hudson
I always found interesting stuff at Riley's.
Whenever I was back in NH we would always drop by.
I don't know if they still have the doublesized BAR trainer hanging from the ceiling, I sold them the magazine and plastic training rounds when I was 18.
Nice that Hudson has a range.
The Firing Line in Manchester has a nice indoor set-up and is also a NFA/Class 3 dealer.
I haven't been back there since the last funeral I attended.

Richard
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Old 08-31-2016, 03:18 PM   #27
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Just got off the phone with Discover card. Fraud alert. Had to cancel card and get a new number. only place i use this card is for online transactions. Made 6 transactions with Apex this month and nothing else. I will still be a dedicated Apex customer, But this cannot be a coincidence. Cant wait till my uzi parts come in.
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Old 08-31-2016, 06:29 PM   #28
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Richard, it appears you may have a problem in the payment transaction chain.

If your vendors are ordering over the phone with CC or invoicing and not getting hit, but others thru the website transaction are, this should tell you something.

An online transaction resulted in fraud days later. The phone order from a week ago seems to be ok for the moment.
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Old 08-31-2016, 09:35 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by hardwired View Post
Richard, it appears you may have a problem in the payment transaction chain.

If your vendors are ordering over the phone with CC or invoicing and not getting hit, but others thru the website transaction are, this should tell you something.

An online transaction resulted in fraud days later. The phone order from a week ago seems to be ok for the moment.
My CS people enter phone in customer CC data into the exact same card gateway screen as our customers use when they place an on-line order.
None of that data gets stored locally or on the web site or site server.
We have explored every possibility and scanned everything that we have access to.
I have notified the Gateway provider, more than once, that we have these reports.
They assure us nothing is wrong.
I had my internal network support on site all day today for a number of tasks. The first and foremost was checking and showing me the firewall logs and reports.
NOTHING out of the ordinary here.
Monday morning the company that hosts & maintains the APEX web site & server sent over 4 additional new reports that cover the security of our site from both internal and external scans & tests.
All 4 reports use different tools from different companies.
All 4 reports still show no indicators of problems or any potential vulnerabilities.

Meanwhile, here is news of 330,000 sites where any customers CC data could have been intercepted:

http://krebsonsecurity.com/2016/08/d...sale-division/

APEX does NOT use MICROS.
Lots of fast food places here in the USA do.

Richard
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Old 08-31-2016, 10:42 PM   #30
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Long time no login. Thanks fellas for all the good threads - read ya'll often. This thread/issue got me so fired up I recovered my login and after lots of effort - I can finally get in to post. /nice guy off


I work in the industry with a large payment processor - with some of the biggest merchants in the world. I practice PCI 2.0 daily.

I had my CC compromised by some very savvy folks a few weeks back - a few days after making a purchase from APEX. Same MO as everyone else.

APEX - you are compromised - without a doubt. Regardless of what your website host states. All of these customers have the exact same experience - days after making a purchase from your site. Take ownership of this issue and hire the necessary folks to resolve - or push harder on your payment gateway folks. Asking vendors for reports isn't going to cut it - you need specialized skill sets to look into all aspects of the transaction flow - question all aspects of the design until the issue is identified.

So, due to lack of meaningful action on your part, you are allowing your customers to continue to be compromised.

You have certainly lost my business.

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Old 08-31-2016, 11:28 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by david31741 View Post
Long time no login. Thanks fellas for all the good threads - read ya'll often. This thread/issue got me so fired up I recovered my login and after lots of effort - I can finally get in to post. /nice guy off


I work in the industry with a large payment processor - with some of the biggest merchants in the world. I practice PCI 2.0 daily.

I had my CC compromised by some very savvy folks a few weeks back - a few days after making a purcahse from APEX. Same MO as everyone else.

APEX - you are compromised - without a doubt. Regardless of what your website host states. All of these customers have the exact same experience - days after making a purchase from your site. Take ownership of this issue and hire the necessary folks to resolve - or push harder on your payment gateway folks.

So, due to lack of meaningful action on your part, you are allowing your customers to continue to be compromised.

You have certainly lost my business.
If you have read my on-line posts about this you should understand that we have taken "meaningful action". The day we started getting indicators (Monday the 22nd) from our customers we contacted the gateway provider and had the host/contractor check to see if we had any security compromises.
Nothing to report and the Gateway just takes it as a problem report.
Wednesday night (24th August) we took the entire site down for 6 hours, the e-commerce platform is always up to date and we have tools in place to monitor it's security, but we wanted to look at the actual server, perform some routine updates and add MORE scan and monitor tools.
Found nothing wrong, no signs of intrusion, we always keep it tight.
My contractor is also able to work with the gateway, and so checked its settings and ensured it was set for the proper latest security.
We are monitoring/scanning everything we control daily.
Same with the internal APEX network, I made my IT support people sit here and walk me thru all the reports on the firewall and explain everything.
There is no credit card data stored on any system here, but I just wanted a complete picture.
We too are PCI compliant, the Gateway and payment processor require it.
It isn't just software & hardware, we train our people too.

Tonight I have passed along the info posted about GunMagWarehouse and the problems they have addressed that started the beginning of JUNE.

I don't know what type of E-commerce site they run or what 3rd party module they added.
We actually have a separate developmental server platform running the APEX web site software which we maintain for integration and testing, to help prevent site problems or creating vulnerabilities.

In case you missed it earlier in this thread...
We use a card processor gateway (NOT MICROS) from a respected company that is the Internet’s largest payment gateway provider with over 375,000 merchants in its user base, so we do not see or store card data, that service provider just lets us know if the charge is accepted or denied.
To be clear we do not store or have access to customer credit card information.

david31741 I would think that you would know if the gateway or payment processor believed ALL our customers were having their CC data intercepted they would be cutting us off or at least threatening us to get the problem resolved.
We process/ship a LOT of orders every day.

Check post #120 in this thread...
http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showth...=276845&page=4

Richard
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Old 09-01-2016, 12:11 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by APEXgunparts View Post

david31741 I would think that you would know if the gateway or payment processor believed ALL our customers were having their CC data intercepted they would be cutting us off or at least threatening us to get the problem resolved.
We process/ship a LOT of orders every day.

Check post #120 in this thread...
http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showth...=276845&page=4

Richard
Yes, I have read this thread and the other, larger thread in General - and they are good steps to take. What I continue to take away from the posts though is - that all is clear with your site. I respect the steps you have taken and how challenging it is to resolve these issues but the problem hasn't been found and your customers continue to trickle in with these reports - on a small, niche site.

Have you made payments with a few dif CC's through your own website? If it helps, my card was a Discover Card and i have read a few others who identified Discover was their CC provider as well.

Do you not find it odd that 50 or so people have posted about making a purchase on your site - then experiencing fraud on their cards within 2-3 days - with all of these users posting on a niche forum? I certainly do. Since the likelihood that all of these people are also making other payments at the same merchants in a couple day time-frame is slim to none - with just the small sample of 50 people. (that sentence is hard to read - sorry!)

There are so many points in the connection that are vulnerable. You could be hacked completely outside of your web servers/hosted environment or outside of shop-gate upstream a man in the middle attack etc.

Last edited by david31741; 09-01-2016 at 12:21 AM.
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Old 09-01-2016, 12:17 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david31741 View Post
Yes, I have read this thread and the other, larger thread in General - and they are good steps to take. What I continue to take away from the posts though is - that all is clear with your site. I respect the steps you have taken and how challenging it is to resolve these issues but the problem hasn't been found and your customers continue to trickle in with these reports - on a small, niche site.

Have you made payments with a few dif CC's through your own website? If it helps, my card was a Discover Card and i have read a few others who identified Discover was their CC provider as well.

Do you not find it odd that 50 or so people have posted about making a purchase on your site - then experiencing fraud on their cards within 2-3 days - with all of these users posting on a niche forum? I certainly do. Since the likelihood that all of these people are also making other payments at the same merchants in a couple day time-frame is slim to none - with just the small sample of 50 people. (that sentence is hard to read - sorry!)
The fraud reports go back two months... They began to appear over on Reddit.

Both my compromised cards are chase cards fwiw
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Old 09-01-2016, 12:29 AM   #34
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The fraud reports go back two months... They began to appear over on Reddit.

Both my compromised cards are chase cards fwiw
I saw your other post and was trying to find what you were referring to on reddit - got a link or some search words?
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Old 09-01-2016, 12:30 AM   #35
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I saw your other post and was trying to find what you were referring to on reddit - got a link or some search words?
Here's one he linked to:
https://www.reddit.com/r/guns/commen..._gun_shopping/

There were others.
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