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Old 05-20-2020, 10:03 AM   #1
Captain1201
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Default Original Saiga Hammer ok?

I had a Tapco G2 fire control group in my stash, and used it on the Saiga conversion rifle that I built several months ago.

You should be able to insert the Bolt Carrier with the barrel pointed at the ground and the bolt and carrier should slide to Lock Up without resistance, or having to push the bolt carrier forward manually to clear the top of the hammer.

Tapco's G2 Hammer resists the bolt carrier moving forward because it hangs up as the bolt moves over the top of the G2 hammer. I did work on the hammer a little bit, and when I test fired the rifle, it seemed to work fine, but there was still some resistance to the bolt carrier moving forward unimpeded by the top of the hammer.

The G2 hammer deforms the tail of the bolt carrier over time as the bolt carrier makes contact with the face of the G2 hammer as it moves backward when fired. Some have attributed this to excess hardening of the hammer, incorrect hammer geometry, or both. It's not been a functional issue for me. But, deformation is definitely not only a cosmetic issue, but it does contribute to excessive wear on the bolt.

I considered replacing the fire control group with a RAK-1 from Century Arms. and I've used them on other builds in the past. But, on this particular rifle, I decided to save $30 (RAK-1) and replace the G2 hammer with the original Saiga (Russian made) Hammer.

The Russian hammer geometry looks quite a bit different than the G2 or the RAK-1 hammers. The Russian hammer has abrupt relief angles on the right side of the head of the hammer, it seems smaller in size, and the overall geometry of the hammer just looks nothing like the G2 or the RAK-1.

I'm still within 922r requirements with my other components on the rifle using the Russian made hammer. I theorize that the original Russian hammer would be preferable to the G2 hammer. I figured that the Russians have been refining the function of their hammer since 1947, and that perhaps the Russian hammer would work better than the G2 hammer, plus it's cheaper than buying a RAK-1.

The bolt carrier locks up unimpeded when using the Russian hammer. I haven't test fired the rifle since I made the change. The safety and reset work perfectly, etc...

It would seem to me that the hammer that comes with the Saiga would be best suited to work with the rifle since it was designed for it. But, does anybody see any downside to using the original Saiga (Russian) hammer (except 922r, if you need that), while still using the Tapco G2 trigger in the fire control group?
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Old 05-20-2020, 10:19 AM   #2
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Mixing up the trigger group? - AK Files
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Old 05-21-2020, 04:48 PM   #3
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Russian hammer works just fine with single stage Kvar / Fime tigger or AK-74 trigger / disconnector.
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Old 05-21-2020, 08:06 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain1201 View Post
I had a Tapco G2 fire control group in my stash, and used it on the Saiga conversion rifle that I built several months ago.

You should be able to insert the Bolt Carrier with the barrel pointed at the ground and the bolt and carrier should slide to Lock Up without resistance, or having to push the bolt carrier forward manually to clear the top of the hammer.

Tapco's G2 Hammer resists the bolt carrier moving forward because it hangs up as the bolt moves over the top of the G2 hammer. I did work on the hammer a little bit, and when I test fired the rifle, it seemed to work fine, but there was still some resistance to the bolt carrier moving forward unimpeded by the top of the hammer.

The G2 hammer deforms the tail of the bolt carrier over time as the bolt carrier makes contact with the face of the G2 hammer as it moves backward when fired. Some have attributed this to excess hardening of the hammer, incorrect hammer geometry, or both. It's not been a functional issue for me. But, deformation is definitely not only a cosmetic issue, but it does contribute to excessive wear on the bolt.

I considered replacing the fire control group with a RAK-1 from Century Arms. and I've used them on other builds in the past. But, on this particular rifle, I decided to save $30 (RAK-1) and replace the G2 hammer with the original Saiga (Russian made) Hammer.

The Russian hammer geometry looks quite a bit different than the G2 or the RAK-1 hammers. The Russian hammer has abrupt relief angles on the right side of the head of the hammer, it seems smaller in size, and the overall geometry of the hammer just looks nothing like the G2 or the RAK-1.

I'm still within 922r requirements with my other components on the rifle using the Russian made hammer. I theorize that the original Russian hammer would be preferable to the G2 hammer. I figured that the Russians have been refining the function of their hammer since 1947, and that perhaps the Russian hammer would work better than the G2 hammer, plus it's cheaper than buying a RAK-1.

The bolt carrier locks up unimpeded when using the Russian hammer. I haven't test fired the rifle since I made the change. The safety and reset work perfectly, etc...

It would seem to me that the hammer that comes with the Saiga would be best suited to work with the rifle since it was designed for it. But, does anybody see any downside to using the original Saiga (Russian) hammer (except 922r, if you need that), while still using the Tapco G2 trigger in the fire control group?
It should slide forward and lock with no FCG .
No way in hell that's going to h as open with the hammer installed .

How deformed Saiga bolts have you actually seen ??
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Old 05-21-2020, 08:38 PM   #5
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issue is not the bolt but the tail of bolt carrier. Surplus kits, even well used one did not have deformed carriers with the hammers that were in the guns. People run US FCG's and the carriers get fucked. The only exception is that to having to us a saiga hammer is on 223 guns with spring loaded firing pins the hammers are a slightly different profile.

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Originally Posted by 1biggun View Post
It should slide forward and lock with no FCG .
No way in hell that's going to h as open with the hammer installed .

How deformed Saiga bolts have you actually seen ??
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Old 05-21-2020, 08:44 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kalieracer View Post
issue is not the bolt but the tail of bolt carrier. Surplus kits, even well used one did not have deformed carriers with the hammers that were in the guns. People run US FCG's and the carriers get fucked. The only exception is that to having to us a saiga hammer is on 223 guns with spring loaded firing pins the hammers are a slightly different profile.
Can you put down the shovel?

Plenty of folks showed us their factory Chinese guns (with 100% factory parts) that had tail peening, too.


It's not a "US parts" thing. It's an "AK thing"
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Old 05-21-2020, 10:55 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nalioth View Post
Can you put down the shovel?

Plenty of folks showed us their factory Chinese guns (with 100% factory parts) that had tail peening, too.


It's not a "US parts" thing. It's an "AK thing"
Yep, I have seen it in Saigas too with the factory hammer.
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Old 05-22-2020, 04:55 PM   #8
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I likely gave a dozen AKs running Tapcos .
Never had a issue that was of any concern .

What I find interesting is newcomers to the hobby talking about it issues that most never had as if its some common for sure issue .

Yes some AKs have had issues but most dont .

I doubt the factory Saiga hammer is anything great either .
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