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Old 10-06-2011, 12:26 PM   #1
Uechi
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Default Century Arms Int. Centurion Model 39

Hi,new to the forum and looking forward to learning from the members. I have several ARs and decided I'd reallly Lke to have a GOOD AK-47. I initially looked at the Arsenal SLQs but after seeing videos on Youtube showing the rifles constantly jamming in a dirt.sand test I changed my mind. Accuracy is important but I certainly want most of all an AK-47 that is reliable in all conditions. This has always been the hallmark of the design. I've been looking at the Century Arms International Centurion Model 39. I have not been able to find much in the way of reviews on this rifle.My concerns are not only that Century Arms has an awful reputation for customer service but also comments that praise the tight tolerances on the rifle. I'm concerned that these tolerances will predispose the rifle to jamming in nasty field conditions It also no bargain at $800 and up. I'm wondering if any of the members either own or have any experience with the Centurion. If I can't find more information on the rifle I'll probably go with a Yugo M70AB2. The problem with that is I don't like folding metal stocks and they are around $800 too. Any help would be appreciated.
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Old 10-06-2011, 12:38 PM   #2
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Not sure about the model 39, but for a few hundred less, you could look for the Polich 1960 model, or the Bulgarian SSR HC. The Bulgy may coss less, but I think is higher quality parts than a WASR, which I have both of and love both. Some may say a knock on the Polich one is non chrome-lined barrel though. Good luck in your search.
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Old 10-06-2011, 01:14 PM   #3
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I have two WASRs and a PSL...4 rifles total from CAI...All of them are guns I would take over my Daniel Defense M4 ($2500 into it). THAT SAYS A LOT.

Can you handle them readily so you can compare other AK patterns?
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Old 10-06-2011, 02:13 PM   #4
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Thanks for the responses. Not really interested in WASR I've seen them and the
workmanship leads something to be desired. No one I can find in Clearwater. FL Gun stores has a Centurion 39. Heck I can't even find an M70AB. It looks like I'm going to have to buy online. Hopefully I'll have enough inputs from the forum to make an intelligent decision.
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Old 10-07-2011, 08:59 AM   #5
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If you are fine with a little work, as newbaby stated, the SSR-85c HC that centerfiresystem sells is a great deal, nice parts etc. Has a thumbhole stock you might want to replace and will have to cut rear trunion or attach ACE and the finish is so - so. Look to see if you can find a norinco or polytech for the price you are looking at. The chinese can make some great plates and great guns for sure!
WASRs are great too, especially the ones I have seen and handled for the past year. It's an AK, so I am not concerned to much with machine marks etc. adds character!! My.02, good luck, have fun.
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Old 10-07-2011, 09:37 AM   #6
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I think the SGL-21 is considerably better than anything CAI puts out. It is factory new and Russian. The Arsenal Bulgarian series is probably more sought after than the Russian series. You can get a good Ak from CAI but you have a much better chance of getting a "good to go" right out of the box Ak from Arsenal.
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Old 10-07-2011, 09:45 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamg01
I think the SGL-21 is considerably better than anything CAI puts out. It is factory new and Russian. You can get a good Ak from CAI but you have a much better chance of getting a "good to go" right out of the box Ak from Arsenal.
Water is wet.

Fire is hot.

Gravity sucks.


State the blatantly obvious much?

BTW, don't go to Vegas, they'll fleece you naked.

"Much better chance" lolol
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Old 10-07-2011, 10:09 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nalioth
Water is wet.

Fire is hot.

Gravity sucks.


State the blatantly obvious much?

BTW, don't go to Vegas, they'll fleece you naked.

"Much better chance" lolol
Well, he said he wanted a "GOOD" Ak and I figured their would be enough retards telling him CAI Ak's are the best because they got a WASR that works perfectly one time. I also figured their would be the usual retards who get offended when you state the obvious about Arsenal being the best.
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Old 10-07-2011, 11:12 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamg01
Well, he said he wanted a "GOOD" Ak and I figured their would be enough retards telling him CAI Ak's are the best because they got a WASR that works perfectly one time. I also figured their would be the usual retards who get offended when you state the obvious about Arsenal being the best.
No, that's not what I'm referring to.

CAI sells crap, compared to Arsenal (Arsenal is just waaaay overpriced).

You weren't saying anything about Arsenal being the best in the world, but Arsenal being the best when compared to CAI, and that was a waste of your time writing it and our time reading it.
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Old 10-07-2011, 02:26 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uechi
Thanks for the responses. Not really interested in WASR I've seen them and the
workmanship leads something to be desired. No one I can find in Clearwater. FL Gun stores has a Centurion 39. Heck I can't even find an M70AB. It looks like I'm going to have to buy online. Hopefully I'll have enough inputs from the forum to make an intelligent decision.
My point is handle a rifle and don't spread FUD. If you don't own a CAI AK rifle then it makes me realize you know little regarding AK patterns. I wish you luck but a lot of Yugos were CAI imported as well...Good luck. Hope you find that AR you are looking for
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Old 10-07-2011, 07:30 PM   #11
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Thanks for the responses. As I stated in my post, Arsenal AKs appear to jam quite frequently in situations where AKs are not suppose to jam. The rifles have never been known as the most accurate war rifles in the world. They are know however for taking a licking and still functioning. Maybe the Youtube tests are bogus, but they sure don't appear to be. Interesting that they did the test with an AR and it passed with flying colors. My AK is for fun but is also for a SHTF scenario, I don't want a rifle that is going to jam in self defense situation where many rounds might have to be expended. Another interesting point is that most AKs will accept parts from other guns of different manufacture Arsenals will not, The bolt carrier for example.
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Old 10-07-2011, 07:35 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uechi
Another interesting point is that most AKs will accept parts from other guns of different manufacture Arsenals will not, The bolt carrier for example.
Arsenal's will accept other AK's parts - you just have to find the right AK (and since Arsenal has tended to only import "the latest" revisions), it's hard to find those AKs here.
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Old 10-07-2011, 08:28 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nalioth
No, that's not what I'm referring to.

CAI sells crap, compared to Arsenal (Arsenal is just waaaay overpriced).

You weren't saying anything about Arsenal being the best in the world, but Arsenal being the best when compared to CAI, and that was a waste of your time writing it and our time reading it.
I really hate that I wasted your time on a gun forum nalioth. I will try to do better next time.
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Old 10-10-2011, 12:04 AM   #14
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I have an Arsenal AK and have yet to experience a malfunction that couldn't be attributed to a faulty magazine. If you can make it lock up from a little dirt, I'd kiss your ass and give you an hour to draw a crowd.
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Old 10-10-2011, 08:27 AM   #15
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Sorry unless your a beautiful blond female I'm not interested. I'm glad your Arsenal functions well. I suggest you look at the Youtube videos and see what you think. Another interesting test that an Arsenal AK was put thru was a high rate if fire test, The plastic/polymer hand guard actually melted. Again this may be the exception or the rule I don't know I am trying to get feedback if for no other reason than curiosity.
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Old 10-10-2011, 10:23 AM   #16
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Better than having wood handguards catch on fire
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Old 10-10-2011, 10:44 AM   #17
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I sincerely doubt that the Russians would have invented and mass produced a fully automatic weapon if thy were afraid the wood would catch fire. Cheap /crappy polymer or plastic will melt way before any wood is going to catch fire.
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Old 10-10-2011, 12:21 PM   #18
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The AK-47 and it's various derivatives were never designed for sustained rapid fire. If you drop 10 or 15 magazines as fast as possible, you CAN catch the wood on fire. (no, it doesn't dramatically burst into flames, but it will blacken and smolder on the interior of the forearm)
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Old 10-10-2011, 01:12 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enraged Gecko
The AK-47 and it's various derivatives were never designed for sustained rapid fire.
I think you'd better go back and read your history books.
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Old 10-10-2011, 01:28 PM   #20
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"the ak-47 and it's VARIOUS DERIVATIVES were never designed for sustained rapid fire"

So the RPK was developed for what then?? Heck, you can wikipedia that one!
I do like the wager though, on the arsenal lock up, nice.
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Old 10-10-2011, 01:43 PM   #21
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The supposed test shown on Youtube was about 350 rounds over 10 minutes. If that is sustained fire I'd be surprised. I don't know if the testing was bogus or not but if valid and the plastic melted I wouldn't be happy. Melted plastic is alot harder to deal with then charred wood. If there is any truth to the test I'd be hesitant to buy an Arsenal.
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Old 10-10-2011, 02:33 PM   #22
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Haven't all akms/modern military kalashnikov variants gone to polymer, since like the early 90s? I doubt even in a military conflict would but maybe a very few go through that many rounds in that amount of time, much less in a local zombie apocalypse, so I think you'd be ok, plus you can change out to wood. Fortunately, if a "call of duy" (HA) situation happens, I can switch to a wood or another polymer ak to allow cool down!! Or switch to my AR (sorry, could not help it)!
IMO, kind of a goofy reason to be hesitant to buy an Arsenal. Now price, I could see. To each their own.
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Old 10-10-2011, 03:52 PM   #23
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There's polymer and there's polymer. Like anything else there are quality polymers/plastics and there a cheap plastics. There is a whole range of chemical and heat resistant plastic out there. It would appear that the ones Arsenal uses may not be the best. I don't know I didn't do the test. I'd be surprised if AK manyfacturers through out the world would be using plastic hand guards if they were'nt at least very heat resistant.

I find nothing goofy about possibley buying a bunch of problems with the Arsenal products like melted handguards and contant jamming with dirt/sand. I haven't done the tests I brought it up because the tests are on Youtube and at least worth watching before you call it goofy or make a choice to buy. Price alone is not always the discrimation factor on quality and reliability.

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Old 10-10-2011, 09:23 PM   #24
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The RPK is an infantry rifle adapted, rather poorly, to function as a crew serve weapon. The assault rifle was designed to provide the accuracy and power of a rifle with the capability to provide volume of fire in a similar fashion to the Submachine gun. You want sustained rapid fire, grab a PKM.
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Old 10-10-2011, 09:25 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enraged Gecko
The RPK is an infantry rifle adapted, rather poorly, to function as a crew serve weapon.
I think you need to go read your history books, too.

The RPK serves in the SAW (squad automatic weapon) role, which in the Soviet-styled TO&E is issued and operated by a single soldier.
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Old 10-10-2011, 09:47 PM   #26
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A light machinegun or general purpose machinegun is a crew serve weapon. Regardless of whether they can be operated by a single soldier, like an RPK, or require a multiple man crew to operate, like the PKM, they provide sustainable automatic fire at the squad level. Belt-fed machineguns with interchangeable barrels are far superior to Kalashnikov's bastard SAW, dispite the weight, because of their ability to sustain fire safely for prolonged periods of time.
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Old 10-10-2011, 09:51 PM   #27
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You fire an AK long enough to melt plastic, how hot do you think the chamber tempature is? Have fun cooking off rounds
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Old 10-10-2011, 09:56 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enraged Gecko
A light machinegun or general purpose machinegun is a crew serve weapon. Regardless of whether they can be operated by a single soldier, like an RPK, or require a multiple man crew to operate, like the PKM, they provide sustainable automatic fire at the squad level.
So, by your logic, that would make the Browning Automatic Rifle or an FN-FALO a "crew served weapon", too.



Back to the books.
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Old 10-10-2011, 10:03 PM   #29
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Yes, that would be my logic. The BAR was issued to individual members of a squad to serve as a force multiplier. Also, by my logic, any weapon issued to a single specialized soldier to support the entire squad would be crew serve weapon.
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Old 10-10-2011, 10:07 PM   #30
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And yes, the BAR and FALO would make poor squad automatic weapons too
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Old 10-10-2011, 10:11 PM   #31
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I"m having trouble equating your logic here.

The RPK is a magazine fed selective-fire rifle.
The FN-FALO is a magazine fed selective-fire rifle.
The BAR is a magazine fed selective-fire rifle.

They are (or were) each issued to one soldier.

How is the RPK a "crew served weapon" if the other two aren't? (sorry, just not following the logic you're using)
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Old 10-11-2011, 05:22 AM   #32
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I said the BAR and FALO would fit the definition, poorly. I have really never seen much point to issuing a light machinegun based on a modified infantry rifle action. Other than marginally increasing the duration you could sustain fire, there is no real advantage. At least when John Browning's BAR was fielded, the assault rifle was still a yet to be proven concept (and, yes, I'm well aware that the BAR was an original design NOT based on any assault rifle action)
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Old 10-11-2011, 05:35 AM   #33
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Oh, and the BAR is NOT a select fire weapon. It can only fire in fully automatic mode
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Old 10-12-2011, 08:14 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enraged Gecko
You fire an AK long enough to melt plastic, how hot do you think the chamber tempature is? Have fun cooking off rounds

Not so. I have no idea what plastic/polymer Arsenal uses but as I stated before all plastics are not alike. Plastic can melt at temperatures below 250F to well over 500F. If shooting and AK till the barrel got hot would cook off rounds I think we all would have heard of that. hasn't happened to my knowledge
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Old 10-12-2011, 10:27 AM   #35
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I have an arsenal SLR-101 with polymer handguards and unless you're wearing gloves or just really into pain, you will let go of the handguard well before it get's hot enough to melt. But, just for the sake of argument, you do have gloves, I tend to think the aluminum heatshield would protect it. You cut out the heatshield and you probably would have a problem.
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