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Old 08-10-2011, 07:45 PM   #1
winston
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Default Re-welding a milled receiver

I am building an M64 folder a Russian type 3 and Bulgarian type 3. The M64 and Russian have receiver stubs I want to use to keep it as "original" as possible. So for the M64 I have bought a cut receiver from Apex that will work perfectly. I had a "friend" who said he would TIG weld it together for me but since he has turned out to be an ignorant arrogant jackass, it doesn't look like that is going to happen.

So...

I will try to hire someone else to weld it up for me, but Mr. jackass has repeatedly told me that any type of welding other than TIG will not work, or be as strong. Is that even remotely true or is he (yet again) completely full of shit..?

If other types of welding will work, what would be their order of preference..?

For example, if dip shit is right, it would list as follows:

#1 - TIG
#2 - MIG
#3 - Stick

etc...

Thanks..!
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Old 08-10-2011, 10:40 PM   #2
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send them to turothis.he will reweld them for about $350 each,which is a deal.here is a yugo m64 underfolder he did for me.this had just the front and rear stubs.



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Old 08-10-2011, 10:43 PM   #3
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Thanks, but for that much I might as well buy a new US made and be done with it. I would actually save about $50+ per and have a new receiver.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmegina
send them to turothis.he will reweld them for about $350 each,which is a deal.
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Old 08-10-2011, 10:45 PM   #4
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Or I could buy myself a used MIG welder and teach myself a new skill to boot..!
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Old 08-10-2011, 10:50 PM   #5
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howdy win..TIG or MIG will work just fine.The welds will be only as good as the welderee.If I had my druthers I would TIG but that is only cuzz I did TIG before.I am humbly handicapped at MIG to say the least.LOL..

You or the welder should have a but load of clamps to secure the parts,maybe form a jig for the receiver but not really needed if ya have a lot of clamps but it is nice to have..Harbor freight has MIGS real cheap and with 20% off ticket might be worth it for ya..you can always use it for stuff/
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Old 08-10-2011, 10:52 PM   #6
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if you buy a new us receiver,you will still need to have the threaded barrel timed to the receiver,or the threads turned off.then you will have to have someone build it and rivit in the triggerguard and refinish it.the $350 is a deal because it is all done and almost original.you will have way more than $350 into a us receiver build,and if you ever sell it it will not be worth as much as a reweld original.your choice and your money.and if you think you are going to buy a welder and weld a ak back together as your first project,well good luck.it takes alot of skill and tools to reweld a ak that works and looks good also.
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Old 08-10-2011, 10:55 PM   #7
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Hey there ring a ding ding..!

My only concern is that there are a couple spots where the torch cut took about 3/8 of an inch and needs to be filled. For a veteran welder such as yourself, I'm sure that's not a big deal. But for a beginner like I would be, it is kind of intimidating.

By the way, let's say I do choose to buy a MIG and take a class, what "size" welder would I need as far as power goes..?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ding
howdy win..TIG or MIG will work just fine.The welds will be only as good as the welderee.If I had my druthers I would TIG but that is only cuzz I did TIG before.I am humbly handicapped at MIG to say the least.LOL..

You or the welder should have a but load of clamps to secure the parts,maybe form a jig for the receiver but not really needed if ya have a lot of clamps but it is nice to have..Harbor freight has MIGS real cheap and with 20% off ticket might be worth it for ya..you can always use it for stuff/
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Old 08-10-2011, 10:59 PM   #8
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@ Ding...

By the way, I already built a basic jig for it that I am very happy with. It should work with both my M64 and Russian type 3. It is 2 pieces of 3/8 steel (bottom and top) shaped like angle iron. The floor of it is 12" long to support the right side of the receiver and the top is an offset 8" piece to support the top rails. I will still need clamps to keep the chunks in the right spot, but I know that using this jig will keep the top rails lined up and level.
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Old 08-10-2011, 11:01 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ding
howdy win..TIG or MIG will work just fine.The welds will be only as good as the welderee.If I had my druthers I would TIG but that is only cuzz I did TIG before.I am humbly handicapped at MIG to say the least.LOL..

You or the welder should have a but load of clamps to secure the parts,maybe form a jig for the receiver but not really needed if ya have a lot of clamps but it is nice to have..Harbor freight has MIGS real cheap and with 20% off ticket might be worth it for ya..you can always use it for stuff/
+1 above

Find a master TIG welder. Watch him do the setup. If he doesn't clamp the hell out it, he's not the guy you want. Look for someone who does welding in the automotive area.

I had 6 clamps on a part today just to drill two small (precision) hole. I'm concerned one might be off a couple of thou.
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Old 08-10-2011, 11:02 PM   #10
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By the way, that's a fine looking weapon you've got there..!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmegina
send them to turothis.he will reweld them for about $350 each,which is a deal.here is a yugo m64 underfolder he did for me.this had just the front and rear stubs.



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Old 08-10-2011, 11:06 PM   #11
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filler is easy,well easy enough I guess.You can make up for that with the wire MIG or filler rod and a TIG,which ever way ya go.You may want to get a shielding gas for it which helps immensly/I don't know on size,I guess at least a 90-(most of the HF welders) or 150 amps for general use.

OK,perfect on the Jig bud.. but get a bunch of clamp Win to secure the parts down..Heat moves things around and clamps keeps em in place,
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Old 08-11-2011, 12:06 AM   #12
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Winston, I think that most welders will prefer to go with TIG as a first choice because there is very little spatter. Its a very clean weld but it takes time to build heat in the metal being welded then you add metal with a rod by melting it into the molten puddle of steel.The steel is protected from oxidization by the inert gas argon.
Now MIG is much quicker with less BTU's being Imparted into the item being welded and the spool fed wire will fill voids faster and it can use argon to shield the weld also but generally you will get spatter which you will need to clean up after.
I would avoid stick welding personally
That being said;The individual welder's skills and experience may make them more comfortable and capable with MIG than TIG if for instance a welder worked in a muffler shop he would be very handy with MIG.
Bear in mind that I'm not a welder and that I have learned this from my brother, who is. I take most of my welding to him and yes he prefers TIG.
I have been nagging him to reweld a polish 1960 reciever for me for a few weeks now and he is procrastinating and making excuses but I'l wear him down eventually.His biggest objection is keeping the work in alignment during the welding process.
Have to make a jig to hold the pieces in proper alignment first.And then there's a good chance the pieces will twist and warp from the heat.Need to get the 4 corners tacked and check it before continuing the welds,at each weld joint.
Its a painstaking job from the pic that he's painting.But I still want to try it.
I hope some other people add their thoughts here too.
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Old 08-11-2011, 12:01 PM   #13
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Default M64 reweld

I have a M64 that I hope to reweld too ,the only problem I have is getting the proper measurements for the hammer and trigger holes and making sure that everything is in its proper place in relation with each other as there is enough of a gap from the torch cuts that makes alignment difficult.
I know Turbothis does a stellar job on his rewelds but I have 40 years of welding time behind me and I want to do it myself.
I want to build a jig that not only holds the receiver from twisting but also has rods going through it passing through the hammer and trigger axis holes as well as a plug to align the mag well .
Are the pin holes and the mag well locations the same on all milled receivers or are the specs different on every type of milled receiver?
I bought a couple of demilled receivers from apex so I would hopfully get enough meat on them so I wouldn't have to do any filling but they are mostly cut in the same places so some filling will be required.
I know to weld up the evil holes and rail before doing anything else repair wise on the demilled receiver .Is a plug or a restrictor bar needed between the evil hole area to prevent a sear from ever being installed? The reasoning behind this is it would be a easy way of filling the holes if you could slip a precut piece of barstock in and weld it up after enlarging the holes somewhat to get a good deep wide weld there.
Anyway ,where can I get measurements specific to a M64 so I can build my jig?Thanks ,Medicinehorse
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Old 08-11-2011, 02:32 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Medicinehorse
Anyway ,where can I get measurements specific to a M64 so I can build my jig?Thanks ,Medicinehorse
A buddy of mine who has done tons of rewelds says to use the dust cover as a guide for length. The FCG holes should be the same distance from each other now matter what kind of ak it is. Use those things as your guide, and make sure that the hammer is at a 90 degree angle when it is dropped against the bolt and you should be fine.

I had a similar idea for a welding jig, but I would want to have holes be drilled in the jig and then bolt the receiver down through the FCG and safety holes while welding.
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Old 08-11-2011, 02:41 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winston
Thanks, but for that much I might as well buy a new US made and be done with it. I would actually save about $50+ per and have a new receiver.
Is there even a proper clone of the M64 milled receiver available? The ones I had seen were closer to M70 milled receivers.
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Old 08-11-2011, 03:46 PM   #16
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I did it with my Mig welder. I used drywal screw to hold it down to a pieace of 2x4. I was able to mock it out on the board. I used a magazine to space the distance between the two front pieaces. The safety selector and a trigger gaurd made it easy to space out the rear sections. I then used a pieace of flat stock and c-clamped the straight edge against Upper rails on the back 3/4's of the receiver to assist in alignment. Since the rifle I built was a under folder I was able to determin the proper alignment and fit by inserting the folder mechanism. (it would only go so far since it was mocked up on a board) I had ordered 3 M70 cut up receivers. I used sections of the other receiver that I cut on a chop saw to "Fill" the larger gaps since it is milled it has the lower rail section as well. I also used the chop saw to make straight cuts where the torch made a mess of things. I practiced on the remaining chunks of metal to find the sweet spot for penetration and good flow. Go slow, do not make long continuose welds it will cause warping. The rifle was built using a Apex arms M70 front end with stub. Prior to this project I had used my Hobart Handler Mig welder twice.. I am as novice as they come and not very smart. You can do it I believe the underfolder might be bulgarian as well, but when you make your own there is room for artistic license and it was cheaper. I was able to choose the location of the holes for the underfolder. It locks tight both extended and folded. The only modification i had to make to the folder was extending the slot in the folder arm so the safety could be disengaged when folded



And its just not a AK without a mag in it.


It's not perfect.. But its mine and I made it.

Yes it has a trigger now.

DO NOT FORGET TO WELD THE LOWER RAILS WHERE THE SLOT IS AND WELD THE EVIL HOLES. 922 NFA all that good stuff.
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Old 08-11-2011, 06:12 PM   #17
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Default Winstons M64 reweld

Real good info here ,thanks guys. Thats right on about test welding on scrap pieces of the same metal to get your welders settings right.I also have a M70 that I bought on here that came with repair plates. I like the repair using demilled receiver pieces better than the plate deal.Apex still has a few M64 demilled receivers but the M70 ones are gone off their website.These milled kits with workable front stubs are getting scarse so be sure and practice on your welding Winston before you weld on the receiver and you should not have any problem.I have welded up a few but had a complete one right there for reference. These Yugos are well built and make a good looking rifle as these pictures on this thread show.
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Old 08-11-2011, 07:34 PM   #18
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I think they would have about as much a chance of going to the pokey as everyone else here who bends and builds up flats...

Quote:
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Some discretion may be prudent if these welder friends are not ffl's with the paper work to legally manufacture. Esp. if you don't know anything about welding...

Easy enough to prove the reciever was not your work & all, bad enough to put yourself in prison let alone volunteering your 'friends' to be cellies with you.
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Old 08-11-2011, 07:36 PM   #19
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Not that I've found, I was speaking of the US made M70 type, I just wasn't specific.

Quote:
Originally Posted by m03
Is there even a proper clone of the M64 milled receiver available? The ones I had seen were closer to M70 milled receivers.
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Old 08-11-2011, 07:38 PM   #20
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You can also use a stamped flat as a guide to line up your holes and get your overall dimensions. It actually works very well, even if it is already bent.
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Old 08-11-2011, 08:04 PM   #21
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Remember you don't need to fill your gap in with one big weld. You can run a basic stringer( a straight line weld) on the part you want to build up and allow it to cool then zap it again, after you have put more than enough weld to fill the gap you can clean and fix up the part with a grinder. Once you got the gap fixed all you have to really worry about is alignment of the work piece. Main thing is to take your time and watch the heat on the locking lugs. I wish I did my first m64 yugo with plates instead of a flat...but it still worked like a champ just not near as pretty. My opinion on the easiest process to use would be tig then MIG. I personally wouldn't use stick or oxy welding. Tig is precise, easily controlled and has a small heat affected zone. MIG is just plain easy. Stick usually burns hot and has good penetration but generally more challengeing to operate(not too hard though). Oxy acetylene is a no no. Way to much heat and poor penetration compared to the others.
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Old 08-11-2011, 08:45 PM   #22
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The dimensions for the holes can be found in the how to sticky by Roniin.I think there is a blue print of receiver hole measurement.
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Old 08-11-2011, 10:09 PM   #23
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In my opinion, TIG welding is the only way to go. MIG will work, but you'll get some spatter on your workpiece. It all really just comes down to how good of a welder you are with each process.
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