NY Friendly and Unfriendly Vendors List

[B166ER]

http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83626

This is an idea in it's infancy. I intend to compile a fairly comprehensive and evolving list of vendors, companies etc. The goal is to give other NY firearms enthusiasts an idea of what companies are NY "Friendly" and "Unfriendly". Hopefully some of these companies will realize the benefit of opening up there market to us instead of completely dismissing our orders and erroneously refusing to send certain items to us. New York is a big state, with a lot of good people who are frustrated with navigating the marketplace. If anyone has any suggestions please let me know via PM....

[masman]

what certin items are you talking about? i know some companys do it as a CYA thing.

[B166ER]

Originally Posted by masman

what certin items are you talking about? i know some companys do it as a CYA thing.

Unfortunately some companies take the CYA thing waaaay to far. I'm referring to magazines mostly since this seems to be the most misunderstood. However some companies refuse to send parts and parts kits and rifles to NYS, which is completely unfounded in most cases....

[WolfsburgBob]

Originally Posted by B166ER

Unfortunately some companies take the CYA thing waaaay to far. I'm referring to magazines mostly since this seems to be the most misunderstood. However some companies refuse to send parts and parts kits and rifles to NYS, which is completely unfounded in most cases....

If I may respectfully ask :

1) What do you mean by "most".

2) Are you, or a corporation where you are listed as a responsible person, the holder of an FFL either in New York or outside New York?

Thank you.

[B166ER]

1) What do you mean by "most".

A great deal of or number of transactions. This isn't backed up by any empirical data, but i'm sure I could provide it given the parameters.

2) Are you, or a corporation where you are listed as a responsible person, the holder of an FFL either in New York or outside New York?

I see where your going with this and frankly, it's irrelevant. How one company is willing to ship something to NY and another isn't, is beyond me.

My point is many companies are just uneducated and thus unwilling to compromise. Hence the reason for the this type of resource. A simple list for my fellow New Yorkers to scroll through to find the SANE companies who are friendly to there customers needs...

[WolfsburgBob]

Originally Posted by B166ER

Bob asked,... 1) What do you mean by "most".

A great deal of or number of transactions. This isn't backed up by any empirical data, but i'm sure I could provide it given the parameters.


Bob asked, ... 2) Are you, or a corporation where you are listed as a responsible person, the holder of an FFL either in New York or outside New York?

I see where your going with this and frankly, it's irrelevant.

How one company is willing to ship something to NY and another isn't, is beyond me.

My point is many companies are just uneducated and thus unwilling to compromise. Hence the reason for the this type of resource. A simple list for my fellow New Yorkers to scroll through to find the SANE companies who are friendly to there customers needs...

No you do not know where I am going, and frankly it is very relevent.

Some FFL holders draw a "line" at the level of investigation and man hours needed to ship products into various states and the various localities. After all, it's THEIR business. Nobody wants to be sued or fined a few thousand dollars receiving a citation and summons to appear for shipping an item into a restricted State or Locality.

Many states, including my home state of Ohio, contain an exhausting quiltwork of firearm laws and regulations that are initated and enforceable on both the state and also on the local level. Some FFL think shipping to Ohio is wide open, I say they would be well advised to check the local laws where the buyer will receive/posess the product. Ohio has what appears to be litterally NO STATEWIDE restrictions on various firearm related products like "Assault Rifles", but the LOCALITY (Columbus) being shipped into PROHIBITED the shipping to, the sale to, or the possession of that same item in their LOCALITY at one time. Now, that law has been reversed.

Some STATES (New York) have their own level of restriction, and some of the LOCALITIES (NYC) are even MORE strict. Some FFL's just ignore these restrictive states. Who the hell wants to play lawyer?

Case in point,...

I have direct knowledge that an FFL holding "vendor" who is one of the sponsors on this board shipped a 500 round brick of 7.62X39mm ammunition to a mkail order customer in Massachusetts. The customer turned out to be the Attorney General's Office of The State of Massachusetts. What the vendor did not know was Massachusetts had passed a law where you needed a PAID PERMIT to ship ammo into Massachusetts. No permit, BIG NO-NO!

The result was a $5000 fine that was settled "out of court" for $1000 resulting in The Attorney General's withdrawl of the previously requested personal appearance of that dealing "vendor" in the Massachusetts Statehouse courtroom.

Not bad for a $50 sale.


So, ... where do you ship to from YOUR license?

.

[B166ER]

Originally Posted by WolfsburgBob

No you do not know where I am going, and frankly it is very relevent.

Some FFL holders draw a "line" at the level of investigation and man hours needed to ship products into various states and the various localities. After all, it's THEIR business. Nobody wants to be sued or fined a few thousand dollars receiving a citation and summons to appear for shipping an item into a restricted State or Locality.

Many states, including my home state of Ohio, contain an exhausting quiltwork of firearm laws and regulations that are initated and enforceable on both the state and also on the local level. Some FFL think shipping to Ohio is wide open, I say they would be well advised to check the local laws where the buyer will receive/posess the product. Ohio has what appears to be litterally NO STATEWIDE restrictions on various firearm related products like "Assault Rifles", but the LOCALITY (Columbus) being shipped into PROHIBITED the shipping to, the sale to, or the possession of that same item in their LOCALITY at one time. Now, that law has been reversed.

Some STATES (New York) have their own level of restriction, and some of the LOCALITIES (NYC) are even MORE strict. Some FFL's just ignore these restrictive states. Who the hell wants to play lawyer?

Case in point,...

I have direct knowledge that an FFL holding "vendor" who is one of the sponsors on this board shipped a 500 round brick of 7.62X39mm ammunition to a mkail order customer in Massachusetts. The customer turned out to be the Attorney General's Office of The State of Massachusetts. What the vendor did not know was Massachusetts had passed a law where you needed a PAID PERMIT to ship ammo into Massachusetts. No permit, BIG NO-NO!

The result was a $5000 fine that was settled "out of court" for $1000 resulting in The Attorney General's withdrawl of the previously requested personal appearance of that dealing "vendor" in the Massachusetts Statehouse courtroom.

Not bad for a $50 sale.


So, ... where do you ship to from YOUR license?

.

I understand the apprehension some business' may have but i'm referring to completely legal and legitimate purchases. This isn't some gotcha game.

[B166ER]

Originally Posted by B166ER

I understand the apprehension some business' may have but i'm referring to completely legal and legitimate purchases. This isn't some gotcha game.

Some FFL holders draw a "line" at the level of investigation and man hours needed to ship products into various states and the various localities. After all, it's THEIR business. Nobody wants to be sued or fined a few thousand dollars receiving a citation and summons to appear for shipping an item into a restricted State or Locality.

For a potential sale i'd consider it a courtesy for the Vendor, Company etc to take the few minutes if need be to check the statute. It's not difficult, you don't need a lawyer to decipher it. I simply want to highlight the companies that have actually gone out of there way to do this for there customers.

[WolfsburgBob]

Originally Posted by B166ER

I understand the apprehension some business' may have but i'm referring to completely legal and legitimate purchases. This isn't some gotcha game.

I agree, and I ship my items to NY and CA and all sales are VERY legitimate. I complete California's Department of Justice Firearm Shippment Approvals on their website on a fairly regular basis.

But do not kid yourself,...this is a BIG gotcha game to THE GOTCHA PEOPLE!

An, I done did seen it.

Originally Posted by B166ER

For a potential sale i'd consider it a courtesy for the Vendor, Company etc to take the few minutes if need be to check the statute. It's not difficult, you don't need a lawyer to decipher it. I simply want to highlight the companies that have actually gone out of there way to do this for there customers.

What, for a handful of high capacity mags to California, for a fire control group to Washington State, .... or are you talking a profitable sale like a complete rifle to New York?

[B166ER]

Originally Posted by B166ER
For a potential sale i'd consider it a courtesy for the Vendor, Company etc to take the few minutes if need be to check the statute. It's not difficult, you don't need a lawyer to decipher it. I simply want to highlight the companies that have actually gone out of there way to do this for there customers.

What, for a handful of high capacity mags to California, for a fire control group to Washington State, .... or are you talking a profitable sale like a complete rifle to New York?

Any type of legitimate sale I suppose. I really don't know what your asking. The subtle hint I get is that your wanting me to insist vendors do something illegal, I don't, and as I said before, I wouldn't ask them to. The idea is to give repeat business to those deserving of it. Nothing more, nothing less.

This has nothing to do with the contrived policies of CA and WA.

[WolfsburgBob]

Originally Posted by B166ER

Any type of legitimate sale I suppose. I really don't know what your asking. The subtle hint I get is that your wanting me to insist vendors do something illegal, I don't, and as I said before, I wouldn't ask them to. The idea is to give repeat business to those deserving of it. Nothing more, nothing less.

This has nothing to do with the contrived policies of CA and WA.

There are many States that restrict, not only NY. I was pointing out a few other examples. There are more, as we both know.

It is obvious you cannot understand that there is enough business in the marketplace for many vendors to make their sales to without shipping to states that make it a "Legal Zoom" excercize to sell there.

Furthermore I have found it typical that some of the people in these states, good people and fine prospective customers they may be, cannot deal with the fact that their state has caused the problem without crying that vendors are unfriendly. Blame shift.

New York is UNFRIENDLY, not the vendors.




PS, ... The big Socalist anti-gunners in and around NYC need to see another ten boat loads of Brittish soldiers landing in Manhattan to get their bearings straight. Then maybe they'll remember how and why we are now a free nation.

Call to Arms!

[skeeterbay]

Sir; I understand what your wishing to do and I have no problem with it. A list of vendors that will ship to your state would be nice to have. However I also understand why some folks are a bit shy about selling in NY State. It's their license and their butt on the line.

I just did a quick check of my latest copy of the ATF's "State Laws and published ordinances" on firearms. It appears to me that NY State has almost 27 pages listed. Including separate sections for NYC, Albany, Rochester, Buffalo and a couple of counties. I didn't bother to read any of it and some of it maybe geared toward FFL's within NY State. However just for comparison my own state has 4 and one quarter pages and no separate sections for towns or counties. If I was asked to ship something to NY State I would be nervous enough about it to check with the state and local authorities before I did it.

Just for my own knowledge is a new AK47,AR-15 or Mini 14 allowed in NY?

[B166ER]

Originally Posted by skeeterbay

Just for my own knowledge is a new AK47,AR-15 or Mini 14 allowed in NY?

They sure are!

If they have bayonet lugs, they must be neutered. If it has a removable muzzle brake, it must be welded. No folding or collapsible stocks on post ban configured rifles.

Many gun stores here in NYS will take a post ban rifle and modify it to conform to the NYS AWB.

[skeeterbay]

That's good to know. I have hunted and fished in upstate NY many, many times. I have avoided bringing any semi auto rifles for hunting. I normally borrow one when I get there or take one of my bolt actions or single shots.

Thank You!

[lextech]

Im a NY'er and I feel the pain. I vote, send out the emails, joined NRA, ect ect, to do my part to make it know that we are the same responsible patriotic folks as anywhere else. Doesnt do much good with all the down state fairies n libs but you just gotta try.

In the mean time I get burned all the time in this hobby. Bayo's pulled out of numbers matching kits. Preban mags denied. Belted ammo denied. All I can do is remember who sells what and follow my own leads as to get what Im shopping for. I can get pretty much anything I want here in state in shops and shows, but the mark up on items that appear "restricted" or whatever is substantial. I follow the laws and try to help promote my hobby by informing others about how much we actually are allowed to have and how much fun it is.

I think your hearts in the right place bud but I dont think a compiled public list like this would be a great idea. With scumbags like Bloomburger running around just trying to screw folks for fun, Ild hate to see good folks go down hard for anything Ive ever had anything to do with.

But thats just my take on the situation.

[rayman1]

Originally Posted by lextech

I think your hearts in the right place bud but I dont think a compiled public list like this would be a great idea. With scumbags like Bloomburger running around just trying to screw folks for fun, Ild hate to see good folks go down hard for anything Ive ever had anything to do with.

+1. For a lot of vendors, the simplest reason is that it's just not worth the hassle when there's a ton of other markets. I don't think a lot of those "unfriendly" vendors feel the time/effort to make things "NY friendly" or to dissect each area's particular ordnances and restrictions is worth it.

No reason to hate on them for that - it's more of the location's fault. If those particular area's ordnances and restrictions were more uniform and similar to each other to understand, perhaps it would be a different story.

[B166ER]

It is obvious you cannot understand that there is enough business in the marketplace for many vendors to make their sales to without shipping to states that make it a "Legal Zoom" excercize to sell there

I understand this all to well, and it's disappointing, to say the least.

Furthermore I have found it typical that some of the people in these states, good people and fine prospective customers they may be, cannot deal with the fact that their state has caused the problem without crying that vendors are unfriendly. Blame shift.

Indeed, NY has many problems but should we the "prospective customer" suffer the consequence? It seems the answer is yes and it seems some of our fellow gun enthusiasts could care less, since the bottom line obviously speaks the loudest. I've noticed over the years an antipathy towards the inquisitive customer. I don't blame the "seller", I blame the climate of fear imposed upon us by the legislative community.

So in an effort to streamline the often frustrating issue of finding a company that's willing to ship LAWFUL products to the Empire State, a resource is thus required.

Originally Posted by lextech

I think your hearts in the right place bud but I dont think a compiled public list like this would be a great idea. With scumbags like Bloomburger running around just trying to screw folks for fun, Ild hate to see good folks go down hard for anything Ive ever had anything to do with.

But thats just my take on the situation.

This crossed my mind more than once, but there is nothing deceptive or illegal in this venture. Bloomberg is a piece of poop, I agree, but does that mean we have to lurk in the shadows and feel like criminals for enjoying our 2nd Amendment rights? Because it seems like that's what its come to. An utterly disturbing stigma placed upon us for no good reason. It sucks!

[gilbasa1]

im a nyer and when i try to purchase something on gunbroker or from a vendor i will email the person/place first and educate them on the laws reguarding certain items. i for one deal with a great ffl who will take a ny restricted gun with evil features and make them comply with nys laws by grinding the bayo lug and tacking the muzzle device. as far as hi cap mags he has been told by the local police and state troopers as long as they have no date codes they are considered preban and legal to own for the simple reason there is no way to prove when they were made. i dont see anything wrong with making a list of people/places that will sell legal items to nys. they are people that know the laws and therefore they cant get in trouble for doing something that is legal.

[motorhead]

you guys need an online place to network. here in the prk we have calguns. trying to compile a list of who ships what to where is complex.
some vendors (cheaper than douchebags) will never see the light. it never hurts to TRY to explain your laws, but don't be surprised if you get a VERY negative response. move on! we're tough enough to stay put and fight the retard laws, we should be tough enough to handle a few moronic comments.

[WolfsburgBob]

Originally Posted by motorhead

you guys need an online place to network. here in the prk we have calguns. trying to compile a list of who ships what to where is complex.
some vendors (cheaper than douchebags) will never see the light. it never hurts to TRY to explain your laws, but don't be surprised if you get a VERY negative response. move on! we're tough enough to stay put and fight the retard laws, we should be tough enough to handle a few moronic comments.

Very fine suggestion and position.

As an 07 FFL shipping predominatly "in house" manufactured firerams who first secured his FFL in 1979, it is to my best interest to be very aware of the everchanging regulations and laws in states and localities that I ship firearms or parts into. I have a proceedure for checking the state and local laws, and of course the validity and addressing of any FFL where our firearms are sent.

I have on file FFLs and high capacity magazine permits from hundreds of very fine FFLs, law enforcement customers and retail customers that happen to reside or do business in the most un-firearm-friendly states and localities possible. It takes time and effort but I always do what I can to complete a good sale to anyone buying my product that will supply needed documentation and exhibit patience throughout my due-diligence process.

My concern was the fact that it is not in the best interest of The AKFiles or any firearm board to host or allow to be promoted a list that portrays any vendor as "un-friendly" to any restrictive state or locality just because they chose not to do their business by shipping to those places.

We recently moved our operation to a larger building smack dab in the middle of a city where they will not allow any new FFLs to have retail "walk-in" traffic. When we told the Police Chief and his Captain we had no intention to be open to "retail" sales, they were shocked.

They thought we were being VERY security sensitive, ... I told them we had no intention of serving coffee all day.