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Old 01-27-2011, 09:37 PM   #1
integraxgs
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Default ITM ARMS Co.....any good?

Howdy, new member here. I just got an ITM Arms Co. MK99. Paid $400 with 3 mags and 120 rounds of ammo from a local gun show. Has a Tapco folding stock, hand guards and pistol grip. Just trying to find some info. The story i got from the guy who sold it to me said its all romanian parts with the exception of the receiver(cleveland, ohio). are they good receivers? this is my first AK so iam new to the culture. Any answers will help...Thanks
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Old 01-27-2011, 09:53 PM   #2
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The ITM receivers are usually pretty good receivers. They were one of the first US -made receivers. I'd be more concerned with the build quality than the receiver. The ITM receivers are slightly thicker than normal but only hardened around the fire control group axis pin holes and the ejector. There was somebody offering ITM receivers that were fully hardened for a while. The biggest complaint the receivers have is most of the early 7.62x39 ITM receivers have the selector lever holes a bit off. I think too low. The selector tail had to be trimmed to clear the trigger group and often the lever would angle up above the top on the receiver when set on safe. A few of them had lower rail placement issues that could often be fixed by proper location of the trunnions when built. ITM receivers are made by Ohio Ordnance Works. I think they made two thicknesses over the years. Both slightly thicker than normal. One is 1050 steel and one is 4130 steel.
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Old 01-27-2011, 09:56 PM   #3
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ITM., MK99 is the receiver manufacturer and may or may not have been the builder. They produced receivers for Ohio Ordnance Works (OOW) as well. One rap on the receivers is that the only heat treated parts are the axis pin holes, ejector and lower rails. While this is not ideal, it is how a majority of homebuilds are made as well so the method does work.
Other small issues in feeding can be an issue but not necessarily. If it functions and shoots OK it should be a good weapon to keep and to shoot. Post a pic or two.
You should check for US parts count if you have gotten that far yet.
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Old 01-27-2011, 10:08 PM   #4
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Thanks for the help, i just got it last weekend so i havent shot it yet...ill keep ya posted...also i dont know much about the "parts list"...
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Old 01-27-2011, 10:12 PM   #5
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Default pic

pic
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Old 01-27-2011, 10:23 PM   #6
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Well, based on your pic it appears that the upper front rivets are not present or were installed in a non-standrad method. The area at the front trunnion just behind the lower handgurad area. There should be two rivet heads on each side just below where the trunnion writing is, Dunno., maybe closer pics of that area and the rest of the rifle would help.
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Old 01-28-2011, 02:05 PM   #7
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It looks as if whoever assembled it did not have the will and or the know how to pull the barrel.
Iím curious if anything other than those two rivets and bubblegum is holding that front trunnion in.
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Old 01-28-2011, 04:54 PM   #8
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Default close up pic

thanks here is another pic up close.
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Old 01-28-2011, 05:27 PM   #9
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Well, looks like a screw on the lower rivet area near the mag well..., but nothing on the two upper rivet locations. Not sure why you covered the top area and trunnion. Hard to tell but if I were guessing .., unless they welded and smoothed that area..., you may need to investigate the integrity of the assembly of your rifle. I would do that before firing it.

The area near the trunnion should have exposed rivet heads like these.

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Old 01-28-2011, 05:50 PM   #10
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heres another pic, wasnt trying to cover it up, i just set the cover down to take a pic. it looks to be welded.
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Old 01-28-2011, 05:56 PM   #11
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Several of my own rifles have ITM receivers. The builder who put them together has built thousands of rifles on those receivers, and thought very highly of them. He explained to me that the receiver itself absorbed very little stress from firing and that the heat treating at the appropriate areas on it - the axis pin holes was all that was needed.
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Old 01-28-2011, 05:58 PM   #12
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so is being welded safe?
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Old 01-28-2011, 06:03 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by integraxgs
heres another pic, wasnt trying to cover it up, i just set the cover down to take a pic. it looks to be welded.

Well, I can't say I have ever seen that method used befiore. Tack welding the receiver to the trunnion in that area. Dunno..., very unusual.
The slider on your rear sight looks like it is for an SKS vs an AKM.., Dunno., maybe a picture of that.

If you know an individual who is versed in AK building you might have them give this rifle a once over. It has some unusual characteristics in the build and there may be others. Do all the parts on the bolt, carrier and trunnion match? I ask as some indication of headsoace possibilities.
Good Luck with your rifle.
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Old 01-28-2011, 06:21 PM   #14
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thanks, all the parts match, iam gonna look into the rear sight, my brother has a sks and the site does look like ive seen it before. ill check back
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Old 01-28-2011, 06:30 PM   #15
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yer right! the rear sight is from an sks. should i change it? would it make a difference?
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Old 01-28-2011, 06:57 PM   #16
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If you can find somebody with a spot welder to put a couple of spots on that front trunnion, than it would be a whole lot more durable. But in reality it is probably good to go like it is. When the welds do finally break, you will still have some good parts you can build into a better rifle. From a legality standpoint I can only see 4 US made parts. You need 6 on that rifle to be legal. If your trigger says TAPCO or made in USA on it, that would count as 3 additional parts.
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Old 01-28-2011, 07:14 PM   #17
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i dont see USA on the trigger, but how can u tell if the gas piston is USA made?
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Old 01-28-2011, 11:07 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by integraxgs
yer right! the rear sight is from an sks. should i change it? would it make a difference?

The inlet area on the rear sight base looks like it may have been reworked to fit the SKS sight ladder (if it is a SKS sight ladder and not just the SKS slider) Dunno
It appears you have an early home build AKM that was put together in a very unconventional manner. Hopefully all is well and it will perform OK for you.

You are getting an education about something you bought without much foreknowledge it seems.

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Old 01-29-2011, 12:27 AM   #19
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The only sure way to tell if the piston is US made is if it is marked with USA or a US company logo. If there is no markings, than itís original.
Given the way the builder slapped it together, I doubt he changed the piston. and probably just modified the full auto trigger group. If he modified it correctly, the only thing you have to worry about is 922R compliance. You can get by that by using US made magazines. If he did not modify the trigger group, you may find yourself in prison for owning an unlicensed machine gun.
Just to be on the safe side you should swap out the trigger group with a US made one. That way you can use any magazine you want and you will not have to worry about having full auto parts in there that may land you in jail.
Iíve seen the TAPCO G2 trigger groups for under $30.00.
Just make sure there is no markings whatsoever on the trigger group you have. It would suck to buy a new one just to find out you already have a US made one.
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Old 01-29-2011, 08:00 AM   #20
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Thanks for all yer help, it turns out that it is a usa piston and usa triger, they both have the marking USA on them. So if the triger counts as 3 parts I should have 8 usa parts (triger, receiver, butstock, pistol grip, hand guard and piston).
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Old 01-29-2011, 08:50 AM   #21
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You really should just start over on it. Pull the barrel,repair the receiver if you plan on using it over,and either have some who knows how to build on assemble it,or stick here a while and learn for yourself. Use rivets. Screws might work,but they are not what the design calls for. I would definitely not weld it.
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Old 01-29-2011, 08:58 AM   #22
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Just to be clear there are no legal implications in using an original FCG on a USA semi-auto AK build. Except for 922r (USA parts) count they may be opart of.
Lets not get into internet myths. An original FCG is fine just like in a pre ban Chinese or Mitchell. It is only about parts and not the FCG being illegal or anything like that.
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Old 01-29-2011, 10:53 AM   #23
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What I worry about is someone installing one with the tail on it. This could cause a slam fire which in the ATFís eyes, is a machine gun. Iím not sure about the legalities of installing a rate reducer. But that could open a person up for some very unwanted attention as well.
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Old 01-29-2011, 12:15 PM   #24
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I know iam new to this but I don't understand why you think this is a "machine gun". It has usa triger and receiver. What do you mean by having a tail?
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Old 01-29-2011, 12:59 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by integraxgs
I know iam new to this but I don't understand why you think this is a "machine gun". It has usa triger and receiver. What do you mean by having a tail?

IMHO., do not worry about your fire control group and any talk about a rate reducer etc. Your rifle does not have that nor can one be installed. It is a sidebar conversation unrelated to your AKM
The issues for your fireram IMHO.., are the headsapace perhaps and the integrity of the weld and screw build. It may be fine, but it is in an unconventional build format abnd this would lead to a insoection by a experienced person in my judgement. Again , may be all goof functionally but a checkup would not hurt.
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Old 01-29-2011, 01:55 PM   #26
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So far as the ITM receivers go, I've built 4 ak's using them a number of years ago (around 2002). I bought them at Ohio Ordnance Works. OOW isn't that far from me so I drove there and bought them direct via an appointment.

In their day they were good receivers at $59 each. Thicker steel and heat treated holes. Rivet holes were not drilled, which was a plus to me as well. Issues I had were the selector switch/ dust cover alignment, -cosmetic mainly. That and I had to grind the selector stop spacer thinner to get the mags to fit closer to the rails in the rear. I used the Tapco G2 FCG and I had to grind some off the top of the hammer as well I recall to prevent carrier binding. Of the ones I built, I've put thousands of rounds through them over almost tens years now and they have all held up and still run great.

That said since these receivers came out there are much better receivers like Nodak Spud that are much easier to build on without the issues mentioned. I wouldn't build on ITM's again, not cause they are bad, but cause there are better receivers out there now.

As to this build in question, looks like a combo weld/screw build to me. Without knowing how it was built or who did it (their welding heat treating skills/knowledge), there is no way to tell as to it's integrity.
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Old 01-29-2011, 02:15 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by integraxgs
I know iam new to this but I don't understand why you think this is a "machine gun". It has usa triger and receiver. What do you mean by having a tail?
With that US made trigger group, you should not have to worry about any of that. That is if it functions OK.
If you have somebody local to you that can check it out before you fire it, that would be the safe way to go.
You might try a function test on the trigger group. Unload the rifle. Remove the top cover. Hold the trigger down and cycle the weapon. The hammer should stay cocked and not follow the carrier forward. Then release the trigger and the hammer should snap forward and catch on the trigger hook or hooks. Also if you do decide to fire it without having someone check it out, keep it away from your face for the first few rounds and inspect the spent cases. a bulged case or a punctured primmer is very bad.

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Old 01-29-2011, 08:32 PM   #28
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did all the tests and seems to be great, i have 8 usa made parts so iam not worried about that. ill probaly take it to the range within a few days and ill let ya know how it goes. i am not worried much. the guy i got it from at the local gun show is very reputable, i have bought and sold several firearms with him in recent years. HAPPY SHOOTING!

@ AKBLUE and Blacksmith
thanks for the help, i seem to have another hobby to add to a long list

ill be sure to tell ya how the range goes
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