lancaster ak scope mounts

[545x39]

i was on another forum and it came up that lancaster put basically an airsoft copy scope rail on a shit ton of rifles.

they admitted they dropped the ball.
the question i have is, does anyone here have a lancaster that wont mount an optic to it, and if so has lancaster offered to fix it?

it leaves me feeling sick that a rifle i spent $600 on would have a toy scope rail, that at best was put on as a marketing ploy.
part of the reason i bought a lancaster was i wanted to eventually put a kobra or pk on it... no i have to replace the side rail, and add more holes to the receiver.


ugh

[maxhush]

Originally Posted by 545x39

i was on another forum and it came up that lancaster put basically an airsoft copy scope rail on a shit ton of rifles.

Where here did this come up? Any links? This was the first I'd heard of it. Did they stop the practice? Are the newer stainless barreled Lancaster AK-74 Rough Riders places like AIM are selling made with proper scope rails, or do they fall in this category as well? Hard to believe they'd risk their rep on something like this to just save a couple dollars.

[545x39]

Originally Posted by maxhush

Where here did this come up? Any links? This was the first I'd heard of it. Did they stop the practice? Are the newer stainless barreled Lancaster AK-74 Rough Riders places like AIM are selling made with proper scope rails, or do they fall in this category as well? Hard to believe they'd risk their rep on something like this to just save a couple dollars.

i wont post a link, as it is from the forbidden barfcom 47 board.

a friend sent me a link there.

google "Lancaster Rough Rider Optics Side Rail is WACKED!!! "

[545x39]

and it doesnt apply to just the RR, i have the $599 gunkoted, chrome bolt carrier version sold at atlantic.


it has the same rail in the pics

[545x39]

there are pics of the rails on ak47.net/arfcom, just do that google search.

its the exact same rail in those pics thats on my $600 lancaster from atlantic, i will find a pic of the airsoft rail to compare it too.

[545x39]

it appears to be the utg rail


http://www.amazon.com/UTG-Precision-.../dp/B002GO5WG0


thats the same rail on mine, it even has rough machining marks.

[n16ht5]

So any word on these falling apart? I have a RR and just put a scope on it

[AKBLUE]

Those rails have been around for years. They were produced in various countries including China. I did niot read the post from the site above. As far as Air Soft that may be just internet talk unless the quality is inferior or they are aluminum or something.

As far as authentic to a Bulgarian AK74., no they are not the Russian or Bulgarian pattern rails found on these rifles. They were a cheaper alternative. They should work fine. I saw that right away and wondered why they went with (IMHO a lame alternative) on an otherwise nice rifle platform. Save a few bucks with a lesser cost rail.
Try out a scope on the rail and see for yourself.

Here is a link to rails including Russian and Bulgarian types found on Bulgarian and Russian AKM & 74 rifles.

http://tantal.kalashnikov.guns.ru/bstmounts.html

[545x39]

its not that they fall apart, they dont hold zero worth a damn

[AKBLUE]

Originally Posted by 545x39

its not that they fall apart, they dont hold zero worth a damn

And what would cause that? Unless they are out of spec or improperly installed .., the rail is just a hunk of steel. An original pattern rail would have an attaching point at the rear with a rivet through the eceiver and trunnion. The rail in question only attachjes tio the receiver but so do other types that are commonly used and perform well. Those type of rails are used on other rifles as well.
More information would be needed as to the mount and scope used, the symptoms of the zero loss etc. Not defending the use of them by the retailer., but a lot of talk with no specifics here. Not sure what was posted on the other site as to the mechanical issues. Dunno..,
I installed one on a Maadi years ago. It works fine but lacks in the originality department..., if that matters to some folks.

Same rail. I modified the front edge to create a indexing stop for a SVD type mount.

[545x39]

OK, the postage stamp size photos were not a big hit?????

So on my second and last attempt (this is getting old) I am ingnoring the suggested resize instructions and going with the uploaded size. Lets see if this works (text repeated):

Not knowing if this cut and paste would work, I condensed the explanation and pictures.
In this first photo you have the Lancaster in the foreground and a 47 that I attached a legitimate MTK-2 to in the background. The later I mounted per instructions and it is about 10 mm more to the rear. The vertical position on the receivers is the same for both. I think the position of the fake rail on the receiver is just fine. Note the gap in the fake rail (shims shooting outward). Some of this is likely a little left over forward pull from the cammed pinch lever of the mount. It was much worse before I took out most of the interference between the fake rail and the cam


The next photo is to show the differences between the fake rail on top and the legitimate MTK-2 on the bottom. You can see where I dremeled out steel around the hammer pin. This is the undersized area that interferes with the POSP cam. The legitimate MTK-2 mounts with 2 screws and is secure.



The picture is of the instructions that come with the legitimate MTK-2 (same instructions as MTK-1):



This is probably overkill, but the legitimate MTK-2 is on top of the fake for showing profile differences:


People keep bringing up the SVD question. Here is a real SVD and a SVD mount (lose one to the right). I flipped the SVD mount over so you can see its lock pin that slides down the center channel until it opposes a vertical member of the rail. I put a more common AK mount POSP on the SVD and it fits so tight that a cammed pinch lever is not needed. So I use this variety of POSP on the milled rail of the milled SVD receiver. The cam is useful for the sloppy fits as it pushes the mount away from the receiver; thereby, taking slop out in that direction. I wish they all fit as tight as that of the SVD rail. The fake is the sloppiest rail I have seen. The legitimate MTK-2 is the second sloppiest.


On the positive side, I checked the head spacing of the Lancaster RRs and it was excellent. Only the Go gage inserted. I could not get the bolt to close on the Field or No-go. Plus there is a chance that all the naïve who mount POSPs to the fake rail sold by the above will despair over not keeping zero and sell their POSPs cheap on Gun Broker – happy shopping ;-).

heres the post quoted from arcom ak board

[AKBLUE]

Seems like the rail is out of spec or it also appears to have been relieved or filed at the rear top area unless it is an optical illusion. There are variuos manufacturers of this type rail and some are USA and some mported. Perhaps some out of spec varieties. That is a shame.

The SVD mount will not properly mount that rail pictured as long as the indexing or stop pin is in place on the reverse. I'm sure you know that. I overcame that by removing the stop button and drilling and tapping the front edge of the rail and adding a trhreaded stop to the rail for the SVD mount/clamp.

This pic illustrates the stop added at the front edge of the rail for an SVD type clamp/mount.

[gunplumber]

I've purchased the UTG rails and the one from Belarus from which it was cloned. Cloned as in "exact copy", as in "both have 3 rivets". My conclusions are that the UTG is a higher quality unit, better fit and finish. That there may be a few that are not perfect, I don't dispute - but one must also consider the wide variation found in comblock optics before blaming the mount.

rails that share a center support or rear trunion rivet are theoretically more rigid because the flex of the stamping is treduced by partially transferring it to the other side. The advantage of the Belarus/UTG mount is that it does not share any rivets, so can be added with minimal effort.

I use a fixture to mark them.


http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.co...geakmisc.shtml

BTW, AK blue, great idea on the washer/bolt addition.

[mojo00]

I dont want to be a party pooper but if your talking about "correct" side rail for the AK-74, then both the mentioned rails ( the factory one AND your replacement) are incorrect.

The AK-74 used the RMP-3 side mount for Soviet rifles and the Bulgarians used a very similar mount to the Soviet design....The MTK-1 side mount would be for the AKM.

I own a R.R. and the scope mount doesnt bother me too much that its incorrect, I reckon I could change it out for a proper one one at some future date...I feel (MHO) a red dot is more in order for a AK-74 than a scope and unless your making a dead balls clone of a Soviet AK-74 I wouldnt worry too much about the mount...I made a nice clone of a Soviet AK-47 out of a TGI Rifle w/o a side mount (not all 74's had side mounts)...of course if I wanted it 100% correct Id get selector markings and the rear trunnion remarked with cyrillic markings and arsenal proofs.

Its just a matter of how accurate a clone your after.

Great stuff in that link Gunplumber, thanks

[gunplumber]

while there are customers willing to pay 5x more for a more typical '74 scope mount, (be careful using "correct" around guns, as there are rarely absolutes) most just want soemthing that works.

Personally, I think the ultimak is far superior.

[AKBLUE]

The AK74 Soviet and Bulgarian rails are already posted above in the hyperlink to Tantak's site. I suppose the original post was about functionality but originality was also discussed. A couple styles used on the Bulgarian AK74's as noted above.

Originally Posted by mojo00

I dont want to be a party pooper but if your talking about "correct" side rail for the AK-74, then both the mentioned rails ( the factory one AND your replacement) are incorrect.

The AK-74 used the RMP-3 side mount for Soviet rifles and the Bulgarians used a very similar mount to the Soviet design....The MTK-1 side mount would be for the AKM.

I own a R.R. and the scope mount doesnt bother me too much that its incorrect, I reckon I could change it out for a proper one one at some future date...I feel (MHO) a red dot is more in order for a AK-74 than a scope and unless your making a dead balls clone of a Soviet AK-74 I wouldnt worry too much about the mount...I made a nice clone of a Soviet AK-47 out of a TGI Rifle w/o a side mount (not all 74's had side mounts)...of course if I wanted it 100% correct Id get selector markings and the rear trunnion remarked with cyrillic markings and arsenal proofs.

Its just a matter of how accurate a clone your after.

Great stuff in that link Gunplumber, thanks