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Old 11-26-2009, 10:20 AM   #1
Darth AkSarBen
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Default AK-47 re-barreled to 6.5 Grendel?

The 6.5 Grendel caliber, created by Alexander Arms is a very fast , very accurate round. I have seen youtube videos of those that make the 6.5 Grendel brass by simply reforming the 7.62 x 39 Soviet brass by either hyrdo action or by fire forming and then having very acceptable 6.5 Grendel brass.

The 6.5 Grendel has the same base as the 7.62 x 39 shell, and is also the child of the it's parent cartridge the .220 Russian (as was the 7.62 x 39). So the same bolt action can accommodate it. More info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6.5_Grendel

Even though it is a lighter caliber, with less recoil than the 7.62 NATO (.308 Winchester) interestingly, I looked up the ballistics and found out that at 300 yards it matches it's ft/lb of energy and at 400 yards and beyond it retains more velocity and more ft/lbs of energy than does the .308 Winchester 150 gr bullet.

The 6.5 Grendel has shot a 1.198 inch group size that was documented and signed,.... at a distance of 660 yards!

Now my thought was this; while you build/re-build your AK-47, what would it be like if you put on a 6.5 Grendel barrel with the appropriate hole size for the gas port? I would think that you would have a superior caliber to the 7.62 x 39 for the Kalashnikov action. Just some thoughts, and maybe someone has done this.
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Old 11-26-2009, 11:52 AM   #2
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interesting......I know that the USMC wants to have all of its weapons platforms changed out fron 5.56 to that cal. by 2012-to 2015
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Old 11-26-2009, 12:03 PM   #3
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Actually the tards running the dept of def. are looking at the 6.8. The grendel
had magazine feeding problems due to the taper on the 7.62 case and the
straight in mag box on the ar's lower receiver. Bill has it sorted out now but
it would have been better solved by making a new lower receiver for a curved
mag. They could have come up with a design that would have accepted both
types of mags. Bill licenses the grendel to keep the design standard set in stone
but that also hurt it's popularity. Hornady's creedmore 6.5 is also another winner.
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Old 11-26-2009, 07:48 PM   #4
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this is one of the calibers i was considering if i ever build an off caliber AK. 6.5 & 7.62x25 are the winners in my opinion.
ill be interested to see what everyones thoughts are on it as a fun build/shooter
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Old 11-27-2009, 07:49 AM   #5
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I've heard a lot of arguments pro and con comparing the two. Isn't comparing the 6.8 and 6.5 a bit like arguing Ford vs. Chevy - they both are pretty good? It seems like I see more AR uppers coming out in 6.8 SPC.
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Old 11-27-2009, 08:21 AM   #6
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A quick change AK barrel setup would be perfect.
Howsomever many of us that want to switch calibers already HAVE that setup...it's called buying another AK.

6.5 or 6.8? Either way I'd use a 20" barrel to use the cartridge to it's real potential.
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Old 11-27-2009, 08:43 AM   #7
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Didn't I hear that IO was going to get some AK barrels that had more lands and was supposed to generate better accuracy?

Reason I ask is that it would seem to me that to really take advantage of the 6.5 or 6.8 that you'd need a good
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Old 11-27-2009, 10:30 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwheel
...... due to the taper on the 7.62 case and the
straight in mag box on the ar's lower receiver....
Wouldn't even have to be curved, just rake the mag well forward like 5 or 10 degrees would be a big help, they shoulda done this for the 5.56 fifty years ago.
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Old 11-27-2009, 12:27 PM   #9
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This is not a thread to debate the 6.5 Grendel vs the 6.8 SPC, as they are very different cartridges.

The AK-47 has a cartridge it uses, the 7.62 x 39 Soviet, an it's parent was the .220 Russian. The 6.5 Grendel also uses the .220 Russian case and is the same dimensions on the bolt face and for a lot of the cartridge.

HOWEVER, the 6.8 uses a smaller head case diameter, and to change out the AK-47 to that caliber you also need to change out the bolt and carrier as well.

Base of 7.62 x 39 and 6.5 Grendel = 0.447" you can even use 7.62 x 39 brass and resize to make it work.

Base of 6.8 SPC = 0.422" a smaller base, and really it's comparing apples to oranges in calibers.

With the same bolt head for either the 6.5 Grendel or the 7.62 x 39, it seems that you would have to pull the barrel and have a 6.5 Grendel barrel that was machined with a lathe to fit in the front trunnion block and the gas port. Once that was done you would simply use head space gages to set in the barrel and attach the gas port on the barrel. The bolt would be the same.

Biggest concern would be the cartridges in the magazine. I would think that 7.62 magazines might hold the Grendel cases as they are very similar in body size, but differ in the OAL.
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Old 11-27-2009, 12:35 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Etek
6.5 or 6.8? Either way I'd use a 20" barrel to use the cartridge to it's real potential.
Interestingly, I read that the 6.8 x 43 SPC reaches 98% of it's velocity in only 16" of barrel length. This was why the 6.8 was favored as a M4 replacement. Even with the shorter 14" barrel it still had not lost a lot of velocity, nor would one loose a lot of kinetic energy in a shorter barrel, as opposite of the 5.56 NATO in that bbl length. An 18" barrel as opposed to a 16" barrel only gave you about 50-60 fps more muzzle velocity and at 20" it only was an additional 30-50 FPS over the the 18". The ability of the cartridge to utilize a generous portion of it's powder burn in a 16" barrel as it's advantage.

Now back to the 6.5 Grendel idea...
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Old 11-27-2009, 04:02 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth AkSarBen
Interestingly, I read that the 6.8 x 43 SPC reaches 98% of it's velocity in only 16" of barrel length. This was why the 6.8 was favored as a M4 replacement. Even with the shorter 14" barrel it still had not lost a lot of velocity, nor would one loose a lot of kinetic energy in a shorter barrel, as opposite of the 5.56 NATO in that bbl length. An 18" barrel as opposed to a 16" barrel only gave you about 50-60 fps more muzzle velocity and at 20" it only was an additional 30-50 FPS over the the 18". The ability of the cartridge to utilize a generous portion of it's powder burn in a 16" barrel as it's advantage.

Now back to the 6.5 Grendel idea...
All quite true. But if I personally wanted an AK in anything other than the usual military calibers the load and rifle would of course be in a 'sniper' configuration or at least something more accurate than a 14", 16" or 20" AR type rifle.
Power you can get in a 16" barrel, accuracy not so much.
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Old 11-27-2009, 10:22 PM   #12
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Sorry I went off on a tangent but I was thinking along the same line as etek. If you build a 6.5 AK, then you need a barrel that can be accurate. A standard AK's barrel is nothing to write home about.
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Old 11-28-2009, 02:30 AM   #13
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Your barrel would have to be custom made. It would have to have the dimensions necessary to fit into the front trunnion, and have the right diameter for the gas port to fit. It would have to have the 6.5 Grendel chamber and correct bore size for the 6.5 mm bullets. Since the Russians don't make a 6.5 Grendel, you would be getting one from a very good barrel smith that would give you a very nice barrel, and, at the length you wanted. If the barrel is thick enough and headspace is good and the firing is tight, it should be a very accurate AK.
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Last edited by Darth AkSarBen; 11-28-2009 at 09:20 AM. Reason: Addendum:
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Old 08-25-2013, 11:44 PM   #14
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6.5 Grendel AK. Like the idea. Now where to find headspace gauges in that caliber?
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