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Old 06-04-2012, 01:37 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by 1911A1 View Post
Kvar is outa bolts, where can I get one now?
Again, I can modify your bolts to run 5.56. Just let me know...
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Old 06-04-2012, 07:36 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by allesennogwat View Post
A 223 Saiga bolt will work with a Bulgarian AK-74 trunnion and bullet guide.
Hi allesennogwat- Have you successfully built and fired a rifle with this configuration? Just trying to get the straight dope before I run off and drop $$ on a Saiga bolt so any additional detail you can provide would be great. Sitting here with most likely the same parts as everyone else (Apex AK74 kit and Weiger barrel) trying to figure out what comes next.

Thanks
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Old 06-09-2012, 06:42 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Bolt2bounce View Post
I know this is stupid question but, Why not just get a Saga in 223 and convert it ??? For the price of ammo, these days.. I'd rather have 545 than 223.. B2B
I thought the same thing. I wish I purchased a .223 Saiga when they were cheap but I may still get one.
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Old 06-10-2012, 11:50 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by uzitiger View Post
I thought the same thing. I wish I purchased a .223 Saiga when they were cheap but I may still get one.
when you guys do the conversion how do you get the normal hanguards on? You unpopulate half the barrel to install the lower hanguard retainer Im assuming?
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Old 06-13-2012, 02:42 PM   #40
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over....
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Old 06-13-2012, 04:43 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by mrabolli View Post
when you guys do the conversion how do you get the normal hanguards on? You unpopulate half the barrel to install the lower hanguard retainer Im assuming?
There are a few ways to do it. A lot of Saiga barrels do not have the two side grooves for the handguard retainer. Some do. You can file the frooves if you are careful but it is much easier to use a Dremel Tool with a grinding bit and remove the two inside ribs on a handguard retainer. Some AK's have them like this anyway. Now to install the handguard retainer you can press off the front sight base and the gas block. It is easier to cut a vertical slot through the top of the handguard retainer. Spead it and squeeze the opening around the barrel. Put on the lower handguard and mark both sides of the holes through the handguard retainer on the barrel. Remove the lower handguard, move the retainer and use a small round file to groove the top of the barrel for the handguard retainer lock. The lock can be replaced with a screw and nut in a split handguard retainer.

Okay those were the old ways. A couple of places are selling screw-on Saiga handguard retainers now. The same places that sell the bullet guides. They are usually two pieces with a clamp down screw on each side of the barrel.
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Old 06-13-2012, 09:27 PM   #42
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AKBUILDER has Bulgarian 5.56 bolt heads in stock . @ $79.99
http://ak-builder.com/index.php?disp...oduct_id=30295
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Old 06-14-2012, 11:58 AM   #43
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This is the one Im using on my Ak-74 5.56
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Old 06-14-2012, 12:18 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by jdoming728 View Post
This is the one Im using on my Ak-74 5.56
The stem on that looks thicker than the stem on a 74 bolt, can you confirm it fits into an AK74 carrier?
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Old 06-15-2012, 08:56 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by smoked_toast View Post
The stem on that looks thicker than the stem on a 74 bolt, can you confirm it fits into an AK74 carrier?
It will not fit a 74 carrier, it is a large stem bolt. Use it with a 47 carrier.
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Old 06-15-2012, 09:38 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by 1911A1 View Post
Reason on my end is, this was just something different to build. I have a few 5.45's built and shooting already. I dont need any more.

I used a
"MODEL* NDS-2UF
Same as our NDS-2 receivers, but cut in the rear end for AKMS (Polish) pattern underfolder stock hardware.

Make something that will turn heads at the range and confuse the AK "purists"."

I was wanting to confuse AK purists even further by building it up in 223. LOL

It looks pretty cool with the underfolder and the 74 muzzzle brake. Accurate little rifle if I get it feeding good. Big muzzle flash also. Just something different was my reason.
just curious. How did you extend the ejector out on the NDS 2 to work with the 5.56? Ejector on a 7.62 is much much smaller than a 5.45 or 5.56. I've had very little luck adding material to an ejector for different conversions. What's your secret.
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Old 06-15-2012, 10:32 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Viragos View Post
just curious. How did you extend the ejector out on the NDS 2 to work with the 5.56? Ejector on a 7.62 is much much smaller than a 5.45 or 5.56. I've had very little luck adding material to an ejector for different conversions. What's your secret.
NDS2 is a 5.45 receiver.
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Old 06-16-2012, 12:24 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by AKBLUE View Post
NDS2 is a 5.45 receiver.
Oh. Thanks for that and, Neva mind, then. looks like a nice project.
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Old 06-20-2012, 07:45 AM   #49
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Ok, now that I have a 5.56 bolt in my hands, there is no comparison between it and a 5.45 bolt. The extractor is beefier and looks more like a 47 extractor.

When you place a 223 case in a stock 5.45 bolt it floats around and is not held tight at all. Stretching the spring might help this issue short term, but the case still floats in the .015 larger OD, and will never eject consistent. The 223 rim on the case is also thinner, so the 45 extractor barely holds it. You all can say what you want, but I am not converting or using a 5.45 bolt. I tried that at first, runs like crap. This is the way to go with a correct 5.56 bolt.
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Old 06-20-2012, 08:40 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by 1911A1 View Post
Ok, now that I have a 5.56 bolt in my hands, there is no comparison between it and a 5.45 bolt. The extractor is beefier and looks more like a 47 extractor.

When you place a 223 case in a stock 5.45 bolt it floats around and is not held tight at all. Stretching the spring might help this issue short term, but the case still floats in the .015 larger OD, and will never eject consistent. The 223 rim on the case is also thinner, so the 45 extractor barely holds it. You all can say what you want, but I am not converting or using a 5.45 bolt. I tried that at first, runs like crap. This is the way to go with a correct 5.56 bolt.
Hi 1911A1,
I read back through your posts trying to determine your exact setup. I have a few questions -
1) Can you post a link to where you purchased your bolt and carrier?
2) Do you still thinking grinding the ejector is necessary if using a 74 receiver (rails)?
3) Have you test fired with this setup yet? What were the results?

I appreciate the help.
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Old 06-20-2012, 08:53 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by 1911A1 View Post
Ok, now that I have a 5.56 bolt in my hands, there is no comparison between it and a 5.45 bolt. The extractor is beefier and looks more like a 47 extractor.

When you place a 223 case in a stock 5.45 bolt it floats around and is not held tight at all. Stretching the spring might help this issue short term, but the case still floats in the .015 larger OD, and will never eject consistent. The 223 rim on the case is also thinner, so the 45 extractor barely holds it. You all can say what you want, but I am not converting or using a 5.45 bolt. I tried that at first, runs like crap. This is the way to go with a correct 5.56 bolt.
Messing with the spring won't change anything. The extractor rotates against the bolt in its notch until it stops. Some people relieve the metal to allow the extractor to rotate farther and tighter / closer to the bolt face for 5.56. It is not needed though. The 5.45 extractor is an improvement over the original AK extractor. The newer design AK's in 5.56 and 7.62 also use it.

The 5.45 ejector rail will work with 5.56. The Romanian 5.56 uses the same rail. The 223 Saiga ejector is 0.011" larger. A hundredth of an inch usually doesn't make a difference. 7.62 ejectors have greater variations.

222 and 223 Remington cases are used for reforming to the 5.45x39 and the rim works fine with no bolt of ejector modifications.

The larger diameter, shorter 5.56 bolts will not work with 5.45 bullet guides but the 223 Saiga bolt will.
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Last edited by allesennogwat; 06-20-2012 at 10:52 AM.
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Old 06-20-2012, 08:57 AM   #52
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No, I have not installed the bolt yet. Been too busy. I will need to reheadspace, and I might even get another bolt. The M85 bolt has thinner lugs than the 74, by about 1/8" without an exact measurement. I am thinking of going with large stem Bulgy bolt if the lugs are a closer fit.

The M85 bolt is straight from Apex, and would work fine if one uses it to start with. I will need to do some major moving and trimming if I were to use it, as the headspace is off so far.

No, I dont think grinding the extractor is needed if you have the right setup. Just me guessing as I havent tested this yet. This can always be done later if needed. This may have hurt my setup, I will find out.

Hang tight with me and I will get this going. I will probably get rid of this small stem bolt if the lugs on the Bulgy bolt are a closer fit. I would rather reheadspace and drill a larger barrel pin, than to move things about a 1/8".
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Old 06-20-2012, 09:25 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by allesennogwat View Post
Messing with the spring won't change anything. The extractor rotates against the bolt in its notch until it stops. Some people relieve the metal to allow the extractor to rotate farther and tighter / closer to the bolt face for 5.56. It is not needed though. The 5.45 extractor is an improvement over the original AK extractor. The newer design AK's in 5.56 and 7.62 also use it.

The 5.45 ejector rail will work with 5.56. The Romanian 5.56 uses the same rail. The 223 Saiga ejector is 0.011" larger. A tenth of an inch usually doesn't make a difference. 7.62 ejectors have greater variations.

222 and 223 Remington cases are used for reforming to the 5.45x39 and the rim works fine with no bolt of ejector modifications.

The larger diameter, shorter 5.56 bolts will not work with 5.45 bullet guides but the 223 Saiga bolt will.
I hadnt thought about the bullet guide and I am glad you brought that up. I tried to say the same as you stated on the 5.45 extractor, but it didnt come out right. I am by no means an expert and dont try to step on toes, but I do have a lot of stick time with gunsmithing in general and a full machine shop. I have a lot to learn yet of these and this one is kicking my butt. One thing I am sure of is I dont like the fit of the 5.56 case in the 5.45 bolt face. What about the small stem M85 bolt working with the stock bullet guide? I assume this bolt is the same short bolt you are refering to as the large stem? It is a little shorter and the lugs are thinner.

Thanks guys for all the help on this, didnt mean to hijack the thread either, trying to get this done before it gets thrown in the corner.
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Old 06-20-2012, 10:56 AM   #54
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I hadnt thought about the bullet guide and I am glad you brought that up. I tried to say the same as you stated on the 5.45 extractor, but it didnt come out right. I am by no means an expert and dont try to step on toes, but I do have a lot of stick time with gunsmithing in general and a full machine shop. I have a lot to learn yet of these and this one is kicking my butt. One thing I am sure of is I dont like the fit of the 5.56 case in the 5.45 bolt face. What about the small stem M85 bolt working with the stock bullet guide? I assume this bolt is the same short bolt you are refering to as the large stem? It is a little shorter and the lugs are thinner.

Thanks guys for all the help on this, didnt mean to hijack the thread either, trying to get this done before it gets thrown in the corner.
I meant a hundredth of an inch difference in the 223 Saiga ejector and the Romanian 5.45 ejector. The 5.45 ejector rail should work for 5.56.

The bullet guide design usually goes with the length of the bolt / bolt lugs. Sometimes certain bolts require unique bullet guides. I have had a Yugo 5.56 bolt in the past but I don't remember it's dimensions. If you have a Yugo 5.56 and a 5.45 bolt you can compare them.
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Old 07-09-2012, 11:36 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1911A1 View Post
I hadnt thought about the bullet guide and I am glad you brought that up. I tried to say the same as you stated on the 5.45 extractor, but it didnt come out right. I am by no means an expert and dont try to step on toes, but I do have a lot of stick time with gunsmithing in general and a full machine shop. I have a lot to learn yet of these and this one is kicking my butt. One thing I am sure of is I dont like the fit of the 5.56 case in the 5.45 bolt face. What about the small stem M85 bolt working with the stock bullet guide? I assume this bolt is the same short bolt you are refering to as the large stem? It is a little shorter and the lugs are thinner.

Thanks guys for all the help on this, didnt mean to hijack the thread either, trying to get this done before it gets thrown in the corner.
Make any progress with your conversion project yet? IF so what was the solution?
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Old 08-03-2012, 11:16 AM   #56
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I built a second kit with a wieger barrel, on a 74 kit. The kit was not the best, and in hindsight i should have sent it back.
I had failure to extract and stove pipes. I replaced the extractor and put in a psl spring function is now perfect
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Old 08-03-2012, 01:08 PM   #57
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I built a second kit with a wieger barrel, on a 74 kit. The kit was not the best, and in hindsight i should have sent it back.
I had failure to extract and stove pipes. I replaced the extractor and put in a psl spring function is now perfect
Whats did you replace the extractor with?
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Old 08-06-2012, 05:59 PM   #58
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Sorry I should have put that in there. It was a new Tantal extractor from Copes.
It was a lot better with just the extractor change but using the psl spring and slowing down the bolt carrier made the real difference. All rounds now eject and are not bouncing around inside the dust cover causeing stovepipes or going above the bolt carrier.
This second build has the magwell opened and it uses either modified Galil mags (loaded to 30 not 35) and Beryl mags, no ejection issues in 500+ rounds with either style mags and Fed M193, Wolf Poly 55FMJ and Wolf Military Classic 55 jhp mix. Bulgarian waffle mags have a wierd bolt over malfunction with only two rounds is the mag with either spring in the gun.
The ejection distance of the M193 dropped from about 30 ft to 15ft and the wolf from about 20ft to 12ft with the psl spring.
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Old 08-06-2012, 08:08 PM   #59
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Thank you for the valuable information - There are a few who are attempting to use 5.56 bolts of different sorts but they haven't reported back on how its working out yet. Curious to hear their experiences as well.
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Old 08-08-2012, 11:11 PM   #60
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How much spring pressure is lost by reliving the bolt to allow the extractor to move in more?
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Old 08-08-2012, 11:21 PM   #61
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How much spring pressure is lost by reliving the bolt to allow the extractor to move in more?
It might lose some static pressure but when rotated out to the original position the spring pressure would still be exactly the same at that point. It's not that it "loses" spring pressure but rather it gains movement, allowed to rotate in tighter on the rim. I doubt it's needed. I use 222 Remington cases reformed to 5.45 using the original 5.45 bolt. The 222 Remington has the exact same rim as 223 Remington.
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Old 08-10-2012, 10:13 PM   #62
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I use 222 Remington cases reformed to 5.45 using the original 5.45 bolt. The 222 Remington has the exact same rim as 223 Remington.
You've never have any extraction issues using a AK74 5.45 bolt with those 222 remy cases? You're not getting any stovepipes or sluggish ejects with that setup?
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