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Old 10-05-2009, 05:19 AM   #1
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Default 7.62x39 mm Elizarov-Sjomin, M43, PS

Does anyone have any photos/illustrations/measurements of the standard 7.62x39 mm steel core bullet?

From a few photos I have been able to create this model, however, it is lacking in mass, even if only less than a gram.



The jacket is of a uniform thickness of 0.6 mm. The calculated mass if 7.308 g, whereas Wolf TCW states 7.75-8.05 g for their Military Classic, and the official specification is 7.9 g.

Volumes:
  • Copper-plated steel jacket, V = 1.972e-7 m^3
  • Lead filling, V = 2.154e-7 m^3
  • Steel core, V = 4.134e-7 m^3

Mass densities:
  • Copper-plated steel jacket, ρ = 7840 kg/m^3
  • Lead filling, ρ = 11340 kg/m^3
  • Steel core, ρ = 8030 g/m^3
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Old 10-05-2009, 09:00 AM   #2
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The steel core bullet shape was slightly changed in 1960. The original bullet measures 26.80 mm long and I have some spec's that may only be rounded off but say the length is 27.00 mm. Most sources say the original bullet was 26.80 mm. I'll see if I can find some old drawings I have. Another source says the bullet is slightly shorter at (about) 1.040" inches (Chinese), 1.048" (Russian) and 1.046" (Czech).
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Old 10-05-2009, 09:35 AM   #3
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http://home.comcast.net/~jfreeman16/ak_rifle_ammo.htm

Center cartridge has steel core bullet. (That's what the webpage says but it looks like a lead core in a boat tail jacket that was originally meant for the steel core.)

http://home.comcast.net/~jfreeman16/sectionedchina.jpg

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Old 10-05-2009, 09:42 AM   #4
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http://diversant.h1.ru/guns/weapons/7-62x39.html

http://diversant.h1.ru/guns/weapons/pic/762x39.gif

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Old 10-05-2009, 09:46 AM   #5
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http://www.ab.ru/%7Estanok/rus/cart/...hist762x39.htm

Caliber of 7,62x39
Names: 7,62 mm the cartridge of model 1943 g., 7,62 mm Kalashnikov, 7,62 mm Of m43.

Russian and Soviet army cartridge for the combat automatic weapon is created in 1943. by designers [N]. [M]. [Elizarov] and By [b]. [V]. [Semin]. Initially cartridge had a case with the length of 41 mm and a bullet with the lead core and the cylindrical tail section. Under the cartridge were developed the self-loading carbine of Simonov ([SKS]), Kalashnikov automatic rifle ([AK]-47, [AKM]), light machine gun of Degtarev (RPD) and light machine guns of Kalashnikov RPK and [RPKS].

They in 1946 modernized cartridge: bullet obtained the steel core, greater a radius of ogive and conical tail section. In this form 7,62 mm the cartridge shape of 1943 g. in 1949. it is accepted to the supply of the Soviet Army. Cartridge came out very successful that its wide acceptance in the entire world predetermined together with the popularity 7,62 mm of Kalashnikov automatic rifles. Besides the countries of the former Warsaw Pact it consists on the supply of the armies of Egypt, China, PDRK (People's Democratic Republic of Korea), Cuba, Finland, Yugoslavia and large number of developing countries. It is not intended for the use as the purposeful, but [ogranichenno] adapts also for the sniper shooting.

In our country in the postwar period army cartridge adapted also for the hunting purposes, on its basis were and then developed hunting cartridges. At present by the Barnaul Machine Tool Building Plant is produced hunting cartridge with the expansive [poluobolochechnoy] bullet, with the bullet with opening and cavity of head part, with the shell bullet. For the equipment of cartridges more frequently adapts the powder [VUFL], the mass of charge 1,54-1,62 g. as the weapon under such cartridges are used the carbines of Simonov ([SKS], OP [SKS], “argali”) and created on the basis of automatic weapon [AK]-47 and machine gun RPK carbines “saiga” and “wild boar”.
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Old 10-05-2009, 10:15 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allesennogwat
Hmm...let's see, USSR colour coding...

The unmarked one is the standard steel core (PS), the green would be tracer (T-45 or T-45M), and the black/red armour piercing/incendiary (BZ)?
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Old 10-05-2009, 10:19 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rika
Hmm...let's see, USSR colour coding...

The unmarked one is the standard steel core (PS), the green would be tracer (T-45 or T-45M), and the black/red armour piercing/incendiary (BZ)?
Yes that's it.
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Old 10-05-2009, 10:27 AM   #8
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http://forum.valka.cz/files/d7_62x39.jpg

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Old 10-05-2009, 10:48 AM   #9
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Some drawings in the rear of these pics.

http://hand-gun.narod.ru/stat/ybiica.htm







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Old 10-05-2009, 10:58 AM   #10
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Thank you! Great material!
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Old 10-05-2009, 11:10 AM   #11
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Do you know if the armour piercing bullet (BP) is similar to the armour piercing/incendiary (BZ)?
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Old 10-05-2009, 11:22 AM   #12
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http://home.comcast.net/~jfreeman16/ak_rifle_ammo.htm

http://home.comcast.net/~jfreeman16/sclc.jpg

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Old 10-05-2009, 11:24 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rika
Do you know if the armour piercing bullet (BP) is similar to the armour piercing/incendiary (BZ)?
I think it's more like the PS bullet except the steel core is hardened. They are not common in 7.62x39 as most are BZ bullets instead.

I think the Soviet manual only has the three bullets pictured with no BP bullet in 7.62x39 but it is ore common in 7.62x54R.
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Old 10-05-2009, 11:36 AM   #14
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Lead core pics

http://carteach0.blogspot.com/2007/0...ats-in-it.html
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Old 10-05-2009, 11:37 AM   #15
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Fired M43 bullet next to 9x39 bullet.

http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/sp-5_bulletE.jpg
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Old 10-05-2009, 11:41 AM   #16
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Steel core Czech

http://www.sturmgewehr.com/bhinton/A...lCoreCzech.jpg
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Old 10-05-2009, 11:41 AM   #17
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Steel core Chinese

http://www.sturmgewehr.com/bhinton/A...oreChinese.jpg
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Old 10-05-2009, 12:27 PM   #18
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7.62-mm submachine gun cartridge design in 1943

Work on the patron began in 1943, so we have a cartridge is designated as "7.62-mm cartridge design in 1943. In 1944 started the gross production of cartridges. Initially, the cartridge design in 1943 had a bullet with lead core. In 1948, a bullet with lead core completely replaced by a bullet with a steel pressed core, modeled on steel core bullets Pst 7.62-mm rounds TT. In fact, the core bullets FS 7,62 mm cartridge automaton - is elongated core bullets Pst 7.62-mm pistol cartridge. Bullet has received the designation FS. In 1949, the cartridge officially adopted for the CA under the designation "7.62-mm cartridge design in 1943"

Cartridge with a bullet FS(PS) - chuck main purpose. The steel core in an ordinary pool serves as the objectives of economy, lead (at least 50 percent of the mass of lead core), and increase the breakdown of the bullets.

To expand the circle out combat tasks in addition to the cartridge with a bullet cartridges with FS developed special types of bullets.

Cartridge with a tracer bullet "T-45 is designed to adjust the fire in the process of shooting and targeting in the battle. The bullet leaves the flight of bright red fire route, clearly visible both day and night. Range tracing - 800 m. In the investigation of design features - the existence of lead core instead of steel - the ability of tracer bullets penetration is lower than other types of bullets. To differentiate the top of the bullet cartridge is green.

Armor-piercing incendiary bullet "BR" is to engage manpower located behind the light field type shelters, soft-skinned vehicles, etc. Unlike bullets, "PS", which has stamped unquenched steel core bullet "BR" is a pointed hardened core of special steel. Furthermore, at the front of the bullet behind the core placed sequentially incendiary composition and a lead pan. The head of the bullet is weakened - made of tombac - to facilitate the penetration of the core at the barrier. When the bullet hit a barrier in the momentum of the core dramatically slowed, and the shock of the compressed between the bottom part of the core and moving forward on inertia tray. From a strong compression ignition takes place igniter composition, and its burning particles are lagging behind in the formed core hole. To distinguish the head of the bullet cartridges painted black with a red sash on the edge of the black color.

Incendiary bullet "Z" - has a peculiar device. Structurally, this bullet is incendiary tracer. This layout bullets as a whole repeats the layout of domestic bullets like "BZT" (armor-piercing incendiary tracer) 7,62 mm - 14,5 mm. But unlike the bullets BZT core bullets - nebroneboyny, steel blunt-pointed. Thus the bullet and "Z" - is not the AP. If you hit a barrier incendiary composition, placed in warhead compressed moving forward on inertia core and ignites. Particles of the burning of the lagging core formed in the hole. This effect is similar to the action of bullets bullets "BR". But, unlike bullets, "BR" incendiary effect of bullets, "W" to further increases burning tracer composition - in that case, if, at a meeting with the barrier it is not burnt.

Bullet "Z" is also used to adjust fire and target designation, due to the presence of the tracer, the same pool of T-45 ". To differentiate the top of the bullet is painted with red lacquer. It should be noted that this color in all calibers of domestic cartridges - 7.62-mm rifle and machine gun, 12.7 mm and 14.5-mm heavy - and still is used to refer to the bullets of a discontinuous action. Although the purpose they are also incendiary ( "PZ" - "shooting tower, a fire," "MDZ" - "instantaneous incendiary"). Therefore, we emphasize that the bullet "W" 7.62-mm rounds of automatic breaking is not.

For firing from Kalashnikov using devices noiseless and firing PBS various modifications are used cartridges with a reduced muzzle velocity of a bullet. Sockets have the designation "CS" ( "reduced speed"). Velocity is reduced to 300 m / sec. At that rate, not exceeding the speed of sound, flying bullet does not create a shock wave and flying silently. In order to partially compensate for reducing the muzzle energy of the bullet weight increased to 12.5, the distinctive color cartridge - black top with the bullets on the edge of the green belt of black color.


Currently, the bullet comes from heat-treated PS core. This brobivnaya ability bullets has increased significantly. Bullets FS with netermouprochnennym core is not made. The distinctive color cartridges with bullets of PS having a heat-treated core, do not have and can be distinguished from the cartridges with bullets of PS with netermouprochnennymi cores only marks the year of issue at the bottom of the barrel.

Training submachine gun cartridge, designed for learning by doing with the weapon without firing as well as to test the mechanisms weapon consists of a regular cartridge cases and bullets FP. To increase the strength of the cartridge in the office handling the bullet has a double ring crimped in dulcitol. To distinguish from the combat training cartridges have four longitudinal indentations on the body shells. Powder charge and the impact of the training capsule cartridges do not contain.

For the simulation of firing blanks made automatic cartridges. Blank cartridge is a sleeve with an elongated dulcitol. Elongated dulcitol, compression of the "asterisk", partially similar to the geometry of the bullet. Crimped sealed colored lacquer. Extension sleeves made to ensure the normal supply blanks in automatic weapons.

Patron, similar to the single, but having a full-time, not an elongated shell, used as a propellant in a silent 30-mm grenade underbarrel special infantry grenade launcher system "Silence".

In addition to these, there are special types of ammunition auxiliary facilities. This rounds with increasing charge, cartridges, developing high blood pressure, reference and handling of ammunition. Cartridges with increasing charge ( "KM", the surface of the bullet is colored in black) and cartridges of high pressure ( "VD", the bullet can-shape, without coloring) are intended for testing weapons under conditions of its production. Handling the cartridges are similar in purpose to the device and training - are used in the design and manufacture weapons for the verification of the mechanisms. Surface manipulation bullets coated with nickel, chromium, etc., sleeve has a side opening for the differences to live ammunition.

Standard cartridges ( "VC") used in the army for comparative testing of ballistic characteristics of live ammunition stored in military warehouses. Bullet Bullet "EP" has a white color tops. Cartridges EP met with great precision.

In the 1960's. based on the 7.62-mm cartridge of automatic cartridge was designed cartridge for construction and installation of pistols (chuck series C). Cartridge was designed to replace the existing 12.5-mm rounds of series B, C and D, created on the basis of the rifle barrel 7,62 h53R for the construction and installation of pistols type MSP (MSP-1, MSP-3m).

Automaton cartridge design in 1943 has spread and how the yield-hunting ammunition. Therefore, it comes with a wide range of hunting bullets - as we (in Russia), as well as abroad. Russia's enterprises, in particular, produce poluobolochechnoy cartridge with a bullet weighing 9.7 g, has a lead core (7,62 x39-9, 7) and a cartridge with a bullet with steel core, weighing 8 grams, which has cut the top shell and cuts on the inside membrane (7,62 x39-8). Performed well shot cartridge with a fine shot into the transparent plastic container, which mimic the geometry of the bullet.

Sleeves domestic automatic bullets can be bi-metallic (steel clad with red brass) or steel painted with green paint. In 1950, due to lack of bi-metal, brass-plated steel shells were produced. Bi-metallic sleeve on a military closure is denoted by a reduction combustible (steel sleeve), standing after the type designation bullets, lacquered steel - the reduction of GS (steel sleeve). For example: 7,62, or 7,62 PSgzh T-45gs. (These reductions conditional: during the Great Patriotic War, the reduction of GS (steel sleeve) designated barrel rifle and pistol cartridges, made of a steel without any coating (so-called "surrogatirovannye" cartridges). Clearly, then this designation has passed by steel lacquered barrel.) cartridges sealed by a leaflet (20 rounds), placed in a standard oblong sealed "zinc", a khaki color. In a "zinc" shall be placed 660 or 700 rounds. The two "zinc" are stacked in a wooden box in which the knife for opening boxes of metal, "zinc". For Simonov SKS rifle cartridges also corked equipment in magazines, on the two clips in a carton box.

7.62-mm submachine gun cartridge is used to fire the SKS SKS, assault rifles and light machine guns Kalashnikov (AK-47 and AKS-47, AKM and AKMS, PKK and RPKS and modification), RPD RPD belt feeding. All these examples of weapons are in service and now. In addition, under the patron obr. 1943 designed samples of domestic oil field and hunting weapons.
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Old 10-05-2009, 12:42 PM   #19
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http://forum.valka.cz/files/100_6199-762x39.jpg

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Old 10-05-2009, 12:51 PM   #20
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Some good pics of bullets and cores here.

http://www.mycity-military.com/Kopne...kalibri_3.html

http://www.mycity-military.com/imgs/...62x39%20mm.jpg
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Old 10-05-2009, 12:54 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allesennogwat
Very nice!
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Old 10-05-2009, 06:10 PM   #22
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http://www.yapfiles.ru/files/35893/tupo_raznye.jpg

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Old 10-06-2009, 06:43 AM   #23
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Do you have any idea of the mass of T-45 and BZ bullets? or alternatively an approximate mass density for the tracer compound and incendiary compound? or even what these compounds might be? (I can then try to find the mass density for these)

Could the these compounds be based on magnesium?
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Old 10-06-2009, 07:27 AM   #24
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T-45 tracer bullet is listed as 7.58 grams.
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Old 10-06-2009, 07:34 AM   #25
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Full cartridge weights.

Type PS ball = 256.8 grains

Type T-45 Tracer (Green) = 240.7 grains

Type Z Tracer-Incendiary (Red) = 239.8 grains

Type BZ Armor Piercing Incendiary (Black and Red) = 251.5 grains
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Old 10-06-2009, 07:37 AM   #26
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An American source claims the BZ API bullet weighs 120 grains.
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Old 10-06-2009, 08:11 AM   #27
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Type PS ball bullet = 7.91 grams

Type T-45 tracer bullet = 7.45 grams

Type BZ armor piercing incendiary bullet = 7.77 grams

Type Z incendiary = 6.61 grams

Type U.S. reduced velocity heavy bullet for use with silencer, bullet weight = 12.50 grams with a powder charge weight of 0.75 grams
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Old 10-06-2009, 01:29 PM   #28
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The heavy 12.5 gram bullet is 7.94 mm in diameter instead of 7.92 mm with a hard steel core and the bullet length is 33.62 mm. The PS bullet is stated as 26.8 mm long.

To avoid damaging the tracer bullet of the T-45 has no knurl. In the bottom part of the bullet is enshrined ring, it performs the role of the nozzle and provides a uniform expiration of the products of combustion of the tracer.

When firing from the combustion of gunpowder charge is transferred vosplamenitelnomu composition. After the departure of the bullet from the barrel bore from the burning of vosplamenitelnogo and then transferred to the Transitional tracer composition. Burning, glowing bright tracers gives trace of red, clearly visible day and night. If ingestion of bullet is capable of easily ignite them. In 1973, tracing the cartridge has been redesigned. Changing the design of bullets has increased the volume of the charging chamber, thereby facilitating the selection of the charge on different batches of gunpowder, to ensure the stability of ballistic performance and failure to obtain employment of weapons.

In the late 1990's the tracer was redesigned and adopted in 2002 as the T-45m. Upgrade would increase the range of trace to 850 m and has started burning tracer composition in the 50 - 120 m from the muzzle cut. This delay allows for better combustion tracers mask fire an arrow, and provides continuous monitoring of the battlefield through the night sights from the electron-optical converters. Vershinka tracer bullets bullets all painted green. There are cartridges with a tracer bullet, made in early 1960-ies. Having no color, but with germetizatrom green at dultsa sleeves and on the edge of cap.

More history and info in this thread. (translated from Russian by computer, so it's not perfect English.)

http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54080
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Old 10-06-2009, 10:33 PM   #29
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7.62mm CARTRIDGE, MODEL 1943, WITH T-45M MODERNIZED TRACER BULLET (DESIGNATION 57-T-231PM1)
This cartridge is designed to designate targets, adjust fire and engage manpower. It is fired from the 7.62mm Kalashnikov assault rifle (AK) and its versions AKM and AKMS, the 7.62mm Kalashnikov light machine gun (RPK) and its derivative RPKS, the Degtyarev light machine gun (RPD) and the Simonov selfloading carbine (SKS). The bullet point is painted green.
Caliber, mm 7.62 x 39
Weight, g:
cartridge 16.05
bullet 7.55
Cartridge length, mm 56
Muzzle velocity, m/s 718
Max mean powder gas pressure, MPa 274.6
Fire consistency at 300m range (R50), cm 14
Range of trace, m 850
Trace initiation from muzzle face, m 50
Case bimetallic or steel


7.62mm CARTRIDGE, MODEL 1943, WITH REDUCED VELOCITY BULLET (DESIGNATION 57-N-231U)
This cartridge is designed for engagement of unsheltered manpower at firing ranges of up to 400 m. It is fired from the AKMS assault rifle fitted with the PBS-1 device. The bullet point is painted black and green.
Caliber, mm 7.62 x 39
Weight, g:
cartridge 20
bullet 12.55
Cartridge length, mm 56
Muzzle velocity, m/s 293
Fire consistency at 100-m range (R50), cm, max 3.5
Case bimetallic

7.62mm CARTRIDGE, MODEL 1943, WITH STEEL CORE BULLET (DESIGNATION 57-N-231S)
This cartridge is designed to engage hostile manpower and fire weapons at a range of up to 800 m when firing the assault rifle and 1,000 m when firing the light machine gun. It is fired from AKM and AKMS assault rifles, as well as RPK and RPKS light machine guns. The bullet is not painted.
Caliber, mm 7.62 x 39
Weight, g:
cartridge 16.3
bullet 7.9
Cartridge length, mm 56
Muzzle velocity, m/s 718
Max mean powder gas pressure, MPa 274.6
Fire consistency at 300m range (R50), cm, max 7.5
Penetration range, m:
steel helmet 1,000
St3 steel plate, 6 mm thick 300
6Zh85T flak vest 60
Case steel or bimetallic

7.62mm CARTRIDGE, MODEL 1943, WITH T-45 TRACER BULLET (DESIGNATION 57-N-231P)
This cartridge is designed to designate targets, adjust fire and engage manpower. It is fired from AKM and AKMS assault rifles, as well as RPK and RPKS l i g h t machine guns. The bullet point is painted green.
Caliber, mm 7.62 x 39
Weight, g:
cartridge 16.1
bullet 7.57
Cartridge length, mm 56
Muzzle velocity, m/s 718
Max mean powder gas pressure, MPa 274.6
Fire consistency
at 300m range (R50), cm, max 14
Range of trace, m 800
Case bimetallic

http://warfare.ru/?linkid=2466&catid=339
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Last edited by allesennogwat; 10-06-2009 at 10:53 PM.
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Old 10-07-2009, 04:48 AM   #30
rika
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allesennogwat
I think the Soviet manual only has the three bullets pictured with no BP bullet in 7.62x39 but it is ore common in 7.62x54R.
Are these soviet/russian manuals available for download? It would the good to know which cartridges are common/standard, and which are "special" or very rarely used.
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Old 10-07-2009, 08:40 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rika
Are these soviet/russian manuals available for download? It would the good to know which cartridges are common/standard, and which are "special" or very rarely used.
I mean the cartridges listed in the standard SKS and AK-47 manuals.
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Old 10-13-2009, 06:55 PM   #32
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Hey Rika, I emailed you a couple of documents with the Russian specs for 7.62x39 and some pics. I'm still looking for better bullet drawings.
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