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Old 06-14-2009, 01:16 AM   #1
fingolfen
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Default Tabuk Build Log – Disaster!

Will post pix of the “good stuff” later, but I encountered a major disaster on the Tabuk build. I accidentally bent the barrel. Was being careful about the placement of the barrel – ran into what I thought was a headspace issue (wouldn’t close on the “go gauge), so I pushed in the barrel a bit more. Unfortunately I’d mis-diagnosed the problem and ended up pushing the barrel all the way in, and then a little more. The entire thing popped right out of the press after the barrel had bent to release the pressure.

So now I have a multi-week delay in the project while I wait for a new barrel (hopefully I can find one). Once that arrives I still have to take it back over to Tornado technologies to have the length corrected and the barrel rethreaded. In the meantime I get to disassemble the barrel assembly and pray I don’t screw up any MORE parts.
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Old 06-14-2009, 01:45 AM   #2
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Man, you have my deepest condolences on that one. Getting replacement Tabuk barrels is - uh - difficult - to say the least. I've heard a few people talking about straightening barrels, but I don't think I'd want one that I'd bent. Come to think of it I've actually bent a couple myself. They're excellent tomato stakes, but they don't make good barrels. Keep us informed about your search for a new barrel. I have a pile of Yugo kits that cry for Tabuk barrels. I'll keep my ears crossed for you.
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Old 06-14-2009, 01:59 AM   #3
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Thanks - I'm going to try hitting up Copes again. If that fails, I may just go to Green Mountain directly since they did the original run and get them to run me one the right length from the outset.
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Old 06-14-2009, 02:40 AM   #4
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That stinks. Hope you find a replacement. Maybe the front sight base can be a bit tighter of a fit. If the barrel has grooves for the handguard retainer I usually spin it around on the barrel so it's up side down and use the flat to square up the bottom of the receiver when I press in the barrel, but also want to make everything else, especially the rear sight base is square with the receiver.
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Old 06-14-2009, 02:43 AM   #5
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Cant help myself, hey man..... we have all been there....


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Old 06-14-2009, 02:51 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knall
Cant help myself, hey man..... we have all been there....
Yeah, but have you been there with a barrel that's one of maybe 250 in the country... with only a fraction of those that have been corrected???

Romanian, Hungarian, normal Yugo, and even Polish barrels I can get all day long... this.. who knows... I may have just spent $1K on a dead project.
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Old 06-14-2009, 02:55 AM   #7
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I have virgin Yugo RPK barrels which are the correct length for the Tabuk, you would just need to have it re profiled for the Tabuk. Just an option of all others fail..
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Old 06-14-2009, 04:00 AM   #8
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Can't a barrel be bent back. Unless it is extreme angle.

The service manual has a test for a bent barrels. Bend it back. Look after every press. Get as close as you can. You look up the chamber with the muzzel pointed at an edge of a table or door. The will be a piramid of shadow in the bottom of the barrel filled with light. In a striaght barrel being rotated the piramid size and edge shape (curved - straight) will not change, if the barrel is held constant angle. The bent barrel the edges of the shadow/light piramid will br curved and will change shape and the piramid change it's size.

Lay the barrel muzzel on a table top - near the edge - with light near - look down chamber - elevate assembly untill you see a piramid - then start to rotate keeping angles constant.

Either press to correct position or press barrel out for THE UN-BENDING. Three V mounts. Two V's at the ends and one at the high point of the arc.

If you want, I will post picture of serive manual pages.
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Old 06-14-2009, 06:28 AM   #9
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This might help, maybe.....

http://v4.beta.gunbroker.com/Auction...Item=131414278
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Old 06-14-2009, 06:31 AM   #10
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Now that you have all of the dimensions you could have a US barrel maker make a stainless steel 0.311" bore barrel.
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Old 06-14-2009, 11:59 AM   #11
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Thanks guys - Green Mountain made the original ones - I've got a note in to them to see if they still have one or can make one. If I need to have one made from scratch I'm going to get it made to the right length from the outset.
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Old 06-14-2009, 05:47 PM   #12
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um, let me get this right, it wouldn't close on the go so you pushed the barrel IN? not to add to yor pain but can you see where i'm going with this?
would you like a kick inthe nuts to go with that? not closing on a us go is common. you should also check with a round. if it closes on the round you ignore the go. you really worry if it swallows the no-go.
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Old 06-14-2009, 06:22 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motorhead
um, let me get this right, it wouldn't close on the go so you pushed the barrel IN? not to add to yor pain but can you see where i'm going with this?
would you like a kick inthe nuts to go with that? not closing on a us go is common. you should also check with a round. if it closes on the round you ignore the go. you really worry if it swallows the no-go.
Should have specified - wouldn't close on a go because the bolt face was almost 1/2" away from the barrel...
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Old 06-18-2009, 06:11 PM   #14
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fingolfen -i think you're sh*t out of luck trying to get one from greenmountain direct! fyi - i had contacted them 2wice for a simple u.s. made AK bbl and was turned down flat. they said they don't offer ANY AK bbls-period. I thought that sounded like a bs, cause we all heard that copesdist and a few other vendors have gottn the ak bbls made from greenmountain. perhaps they just don't sell AK bbls to the gen public? anyone else run into the same sitch? anyhow, i got a romy bbl lined up for my bbless amd kit build i plan for the near future.
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Old 06-18-2009, 06:30 PM   #15
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You have all of the dimensions. Have a custom barrel made. Just about all US barrel makers make 0.311" bore barrels and a few make that size bore in stainless steel barrel blanks.
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Old 06-19-2009, 10:13 PM   #16
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for future ref-pump slow towards the end when you're installing a bbl. you def do not want to hit the stops! you tear those out that will look bad. use a good lithium ball-bearing grease and lightly lube up that trunnion & bbl like ya would ur gf with a super lube! lol.micro pumps toward the end... and-motorhead nailed it right on the head about headspacing.













tip: off of ak-builder.com.:






To align the barrel for installation just use a straight edge and lay it across the rear sight tower and match it up for the opening in the trunion.





















Be absolutely sure that the barrel is going into the trunion perfectly straight. Once you get it started just press it in far enough for the notch in the barrel to align with the hole through the trunion.





Once the barrel is in place all that's left is to press the pin back into the trunion/barrel assembly. Use the short punch to install the pin.

in your case i am not sure if the bbl has the pin hole pre-drilled or not? in this case ya better watch above ft to watch the bbl breach area as you push the bbl in so that you don;t mess over ur next bbl if it is a tabuk bbl. read this word for word, and def manhandle the bbl in SQUARE WITH THE LUBE B4 YA EVEN START. make sure it holds in place, even, aligned etc... or ur gonna be screwin another one up. it has to be perfect at the get go b 4 you push it in. and do watch closely next time at the stops on the top side of ur ft, and within the crosspin hole.... or you will damage another.micro pumps w/press towards the end! some tend to rely more on a hammer but ya gotta protect the bbl tip.... i just use the press.

Last edited by jwc0506; 06-20-2009 at 05:52 PM.
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Old 06-20-2009, 08:20 PM   #17
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Fin-If you are having the barrel recut, did you consider using an Enfield 303 bbl? I am not sure of the twist rate, but I know I have seen some builders discussing this. the front part of the chamber is supposed to be identical to the 7.62x39 rd, you cut off the back to the right length, and do the extractor cut.I believe the diameter and length are sufficient.Just a thought, something to get kicked around here. BTW< your replacement bbl left yesterday, but if there is something to this, I have two pretty good used 303 bbls and one new replacement 303 bbl.I'd take that tabuk bbl back.
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Old 06-21-2009, 01:34 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shotswapper
Fin-If you are having the barrel recut, did you consider using an Enfield 303 bbl? I am not sure of the twist rate, but I know I have seen some builders discussing this. the front part of the chamber is supposed to be identical to the 7.62x39 rd, you cut off the back to the right length, and do the extractor cut.I believe the diameter and length are sufficient.Just a thought, something to get kicked around here. BTW< your replacement bbl left yesterday, but if there is something to this, I have two pretty good used 303 bbls and one new replacement 303 bbl.I'd take that tabuk bbl back.
Honestly, no because the Green Mountain barrel is still stepped perfectly for all of the bits I have to put ON the barrel. The steps are in the perfect locations for the rear sight block, handguard retainer, and front gas block. By the time you get out far enough for the front sight you can put it anywhere you need to.
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Old 06-21-2009, 01:36 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwc0506
for future ref-pump slow towards the end when you're installing a bbl. you def do not want to hit the stops! you tear those out that will look bad. use a good lithium ball-bearing grease and lightly lube up that trunnion & bbl like ya would ur gf with a super lube! lol.micro pumps toward the end... and-motorhead nailed it right on the head about headspacing.
I did all that, had it set perfectly at the stops, but the bolt was still 1/4" from the chamber - so I thought I'd misread where the stops were... that's when I put the whole shebang back in the press and all hell broke loose. Turns out the bolt carrier wasn't traveling properly...

This was a semi-virgin barrel - it had the chamber cut and the extractor notch cut, but that's it. If it had a barrel pin cut already I'd be done with the rifle! I can do those in my sleep.

As it stands, the barrel isn't kinked and it's only about 1/4" out of register in the last 6-8" or so. I'm going to try to get this one straightened in parallel with getting a second one cut...
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Old 06-21-2009, 01:52 AM   #20
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filgolfen - damn that bites... sorry to hear about it. it sucks damaging a bbl, i have done it myself. damn i didn't know it was a bbl in the naked raw state almost.... but was the bbl size correct for the trunnion? i sure hope so! cause that can also make bend issues.... that is cool you can get that bbl fixed if that is what i thought you said? but good luck on it.
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Old 06-21-2009, 02:13 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwc0506
filgolfen - damn that bites... sorry to hear about it. it sucks damaging a bbl, i have done it myself. damn i didn't know it was a bbl in the naked raw state almost.... but was the bbl size correct for the trunnion? i sure hope so! cause that can also make bend issues.... that is cool you can get that bbl fixed if that is what i thought you said? but good luck on it.
Oh yeah - everything was 100% correct except my diagnosis of the problem encountered... It was 100% my bad... I'd built the barrel up attaching the rear sight block, handguard retainer, gas block, and front sight block in alignment. I'd even gotten the gas port drilled without screwing the pooch. When I saw the big gap between the bolt and the chamber, I assumed I'd misread where the stops were on the M70 trunnion... and you know what happens when you "assume"

If you hit my blog (fingolfen.blogspot.com) and search "tabuk" you can see the barrel saga - the good, bad, and ugly...
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Old 06-21-2009, 03:12 AM   #22
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oh gawd - i get it now.... i just read over at ur blogspot-fingolfen.... damn! i don't use the bolt as i install a bbl to test headspace and at the same time install a bbl. and that is where ur bolt hung up causing the bend........i myself would just press the bbl by itself - than check with the guages.... i think if you didn't use the bolt and press the bbl in at the same time you could probably avoid the issue you had gone through. where did you learn that method?!?!?!? i have heard of folk's doin it like that, but i'm not one of them. that looks like a method that would pose problems to me..... im not expert, but i would just press bbl in by itself as normal-then check with the gauges, push bbl in or out-check again and so on... but im a biy'r! lol. glad you got a bbl again! and are also havin the other one repaired. you can always sell it once repaired. or use it on another build. wow, that whole ordeal must have bummed you out. well, i sure hope after spending all this dough-you'll enjoy shooting it. what did you really pay into it about $700? may as well camo paint it if you paid 1 k plus! i'd want it lookin posh! have a good night. t .c

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Old 06-21-2009, 12:28 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwc0506
oh gawd - i get it now.... i just read over at ur blogspot-fingolfen.... damn! i don't use the bolt as i install a bbl to test headspace and at the same time install a bbl. and that is where ur bolt hung up causing the bend........i myself would just press the bbl by itself - than check with the guages.... i think if you didn't use the bolt and press the bbl in at the same time you could probably avoid the issue you had gone through. where did you learn that method?!?!?!? i have heard of folk's doin it like that, but i'm not one of them. that looks like a method that would pose problems to me..... im not expert, but i would just press bbl in by itself as normal-then check with the gauges, push bbl in or out-check again and so on... but im a biy'r! lol. glad you got a bbl again! and are also havin the other one repaired. you can always sell it once repaired. or use it on another build. wow, that whole ordeal must have bummed you out. well, i sure hope after spending all this dough-you'll enjoy shooting it. what did you really pay into it about $700? may as well camo paint it if you paid 1 k plus! i'd want it lookin posh! have a good night. t .c
That's what I did - I pressed the barrel in as normal... took it out and went to check the headspace - saw it appeared wrong, put it back in and tried to press again.

A Tabuk is spendy - the barrel alone is about $220 to get it and get it to the right length... I sold a partial kit (no stock) on gunbroker for $850... which is probably just about $100 short of what I had in it give or take.
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Old 06-21-2009, 07:07 PM   #24
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fingolfen - ahhh i see... well. welcome to kit building! now ya know how quik something can wrong and ruin parts! man, i gotta a story for you! one time i was buildin a awsum 74 bulgy build ok. well, i built my reciever from scratch, spent a good 3 weeks on it as i was still learning the nitty gritty of the kit builds... anyhow, instead of just hammering the center-support in i thought i'd get creative. so i end trying to use my shop press-big mistake! somehow or other the damn cs sleave buckled and jogged pretzeling my reciever! i probably could have bent it back, but i'd have an ugly bend in my reciever. i deemed it junked and demilled and started all over. it was a nightmare! this stuff happens to a lot of us. ofcourse there are some out there that better than us but... you know what i mean!? gotta have a fine touch on these builds-being it's just sheet metal. glad ya recouped some of ur bucks back. anyhow, next time i'm sure you know not what to do to run into that crap again! again, just use micro pumps at the end. some insist on hammering it in-to each his own. but in that case gotta protect the muzzle's tip.trust me you'll need this! it's too damned easy to overshoot a bbl on a press. L8tr.

another thing/tool i recommend you getting is a 6 3/8" bolt and spare brass nut big enough to protect ur beach area and fre enough to not crunch into ur ft.... this you would use to remove a bbl in case you over shoot it on bbl install. just remove of fold buttstock, set up with ur bbl press kits side bars and the like and press it back out.. hit me up if you ever need to learn about set-up for a removal on a already built rifle. i have learned to do this out of necessity and i actully devosed my own tool-that bolt with a flat end and bolt on top... they have um at home depot for about $50 cents.

Last edited by jwc0506; 06-21-2009 at 07:13 PM.
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Old 06-21-2009, 07:57 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwc0506
fingolfen - ahhh i see... well. welcome to kit building! now ya know how quik something can wrong and ruin parts! man, i gotta a story for you! one time i was buildin a awsum 74 bulgy build ok. well, i built my reciever from scratch, spent a good 3 weeks on it as i was still learning the nitty gritty of the kit builds... anyhow, instead of just hammering the center-support in i thought i'd get creative. so i end trying to use my shop press-big mistake! somehow or other the damn cs sleave buckled and jogged pretzeling my reciever! i probably could have bent it back, but i'd have an ugly bend in my reciever. i deemed it junked and demilled and started all over. it was a nightmare! this stuff happens to a lot of us. ofcourse there are some out there that better than us but... you know what i mean!? gotta have a fine touch on these builds-being it's just sheet metal. glad ya recouped some of ur bucks back. anyhow, next time i'm sure you know not what to do to run into that crap again! again, just use micro pumps at the end. some insist on hammering it in-to each his own. but in that case gotta protect the muzzle's tip.trust me you'll need this! it's too damned easy to overshoot a bbl on a press. L8tr.

another thing/tool i recommend you getting is a 6 3/8" bolt and spare brass nut big enough to protect ur beach area and fre enough to not crunch into ur ft.... this you would use to remove a bbl in case you over shoot it on bbl install. just remove of fold buttstock, set up with ur bbl press kits side bars and the like and press it back out.. hit me up if you ever need to learn about set-up for a removal on a already built rifle. i have learned to do this out of necessity and i actully devosed my own tool-that bolt with a flat end and bolt on top... they have um at home depot for about $50 cents.
I'm using the AK builder jig and it comes with a nut like that - all I can say is that it's genius...
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Old 06-21-2009, 11:05 PM   #26
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Default Straighten it out and sell it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Utga Schleigle
Can't a barrel be bent back. Unless it is extreme angle.

The service manual has a test for a bent barrels. Bend it back. Look after every press. Get as close as you can. You look up the chamber with the muzzel pointed at an edge of a table or door. The will be a piramid of shadow in the bottom of the barrel filled with light. In a striaght barrel being rotated the piramid size and edge shape (curved - straight) will not change, if the barrel is held constant angle. The bent barrel the edges of the shadow/light piramid will br curved and will change shape and the piramid change it's size.

Lay the barrel muzzel on a table top - near the edge - with light near - look down chamber - elevate assembly untill you see a piramid - then start to rotate keeping angles constant.

Either press to correct position or press barrel out for THE UN-BENDING. Three V mounts. Two V's at the ends and one at the high point of the arc.

If you want, I will post picture of serive manual pages.
Yes another baud idea. Straighten barrel slowly in vise or press and sell the barrel or whole rifle. Maybe cut it down and prep it for some-ones shorty build. maybe it is worth something to someone as is.

Any Picts of bent-ness - may be not so badd.

5x7 small picture format can be 8x10 but you guyz USUALLY do not like that size.






Use the light inspection technique now - with a light near the end of a table and slowly rotate watching the edges of traigle. See how baudden baudeen it is.



If you straighten it eneough maybe it will shoot 2" off at 100yards maybe dead on. When you sight in with a group - then you can move the sights to "acceptable" accurancey.

If it gives you the tumbling bullet sound - then sell at as the BLIND SHAIKE JABOOTTAE specail arount the courner shooten TERRAN barrel.
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Last edited by Utga Schleigle; 06-21-2009 at 11:16 PM. Reason: Because every one needs a BLIND SHAIKE Barrel!!! God be Praised
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Old 06-22-2009, 04:58 AM   #27
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fingolfen -thanks for the comps! and yes you can should borrow the brass nut- i did! but you can buy those as well, i think at home depot.

i figured out my bbl removal method out of necessity. cause i pushed bbl in too far- so it had to come back out! lol. set-up has to hovering in tite above top rails-Sir. TAKE CARE not to hit the side of top rails, and watch out for ur reciever as you work... make sure the ram has ample rm/play/rm so that the rams side beam doesnt smash ur reciever.... on the down movement on press... hard to explain. just watch everything on a removal, or a slight press outward....in adjustment-not removal....

someone else i think devised a socket wrench handle as a pushing device to push out a bbl... but i just use the bolt cause it's my own idea. lol. set-up is tricky, ya just keep trying till ya get it. bbl will slide right on out when ya set-up right. or aligned. this is a must! a must for kit builder who needs to align a bbl, intall one, remove one etc.. one cannot always get a bbl in properly each and every time. but my removal method i devised helps me correct the bbl's depth as needed-along with bbl press kit. so i can push and pull the bbl at will. or until im satisfied where my bbl is planted. as most of us biy off a matching num kit, all we're doing is setting the bbl to alig the holes(front trunnion & bbl cut out on bbl hole). those holes align retaining the factory set headspace. double check with the headspace guages, install pin and ur done.

on naked bbl or trunion-that is beyond my scope right now. when in dought post! damage is usually done when the person did not have all the technical info at their disposal.

another thought: maybe your bbl was not strait or square at the start... than when you pressed it got stuck in a corner of the trunion and bbl bent and you pressed.. the thing has to be totally strait at the start. than no probs. and ofcourse press slow near the end.

Last edited by jwc0506; 07-15-2009 at 04:14 AM.
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Old 07-15-2009, 03:30 AM   #28
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Fingolfen, I was thinking of you while doing some late night shopping, hope this helps. http://www.copesdistributing.net/pro...oducts_id=1617
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Old 07-15-2009, 10:48 AM   #29
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or you can clamp the barrel and install the receiver, like I teach, so never have to worry about putting high pressure on the end of a long stick, which is just ASKING it to bend. And when you go too far, brrrrrrp to back it up, and when its not rotated properly, brrrrrrp and its vertical again.
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Old 07-15-2009, 04:12 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fal_762x51
Fingolfen, I was thinking of you while doing some late night shopping, hope this helps. http://www.copesdistributing.net/pro...oducts_id=1617


Fin got me started on the Tabuk bug, and you just answered my prayers! Thanks man!
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Old 07-15-2009, 06:04 PM   #31
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sorry about the disaster i had the same problem happen to me once on a m92 build i salvaged the kit by using a Romanian barrel

i would like to know if u can give me measurement of the rear block site of your tabuk ??

if it's the right size then i may just order a barrel from cope's just to have a spare one
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Old 07-19-2009, 12:37 PM   #32
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tabuk is on a yugo trunnion. m70, check spec thread for diameter.
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Old 07-20-2009, 08:55 AM   #33
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very cool thx
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