Accurizing with Krebs rear sight

status quo · 05-25-2009, 10:31 PM

I've had terrible luck with stock "pistol" type sights, I couldn't even get groups with them, but more like patterns. I was lucky if I got 6" groups, usually it was all over the paper. This is not an AK issue, I had the same thing with Moisin-Nagants, Mausers, etc.

OTOH, I just love the peep sights of M1 Garand, AR.

Basically there are 2 types of pseudo-peep sights available for the AK platform. None are as good as the original peep sights but are a drastic improvement IME (In my experience).

First, I've had really good luck with the Mojo sight. It's very well made, I liked the steel, not alum metal. The groups got significantly smaller. However, it's key problem is that it's not easily adjustable for elevation. You have to sight it at one optimal distance and just live with it. Say 140m. If you don't want to carry tiny hex wrenches with you and count the number of turns you adjust the screws.

I decided to try to the Krebs rear sight. It's basically the same thing as the stock sight but with the apperture added to it. You can easily slide it up/down for elevation. My only minor disappointment is that it has a slight left-right wobble not present in the original or Mojo sight. You have to move it to see it, it doesn't do it on its own. So I think their tolerances could be improved. It doesn't seem to affect accuracy. But then I am a picky customer I suppose.

Left to right (windage) adjustments are also made with a hex wrench but then once set, you don't need to touch it. The screws don't come loose and seem to be of a larger diameter than on Mojo. It has a good feel to it.

A problem occured: It seemed the front sight post was too large and crude in relationship to the apperture of the Krebs sight. I decided to replace it with a finer front sight post. I used an ACE conversion device which makes the front sight accept AR-type front sight posts. I then ordered then 7-post kit and installed the smallest "ball" type post. The pic shows the medium sized post that I tested with some groups. I had a hard time deciding which one to use. The medium sized "ball" is of the same diameter as the original AK sight post, 0.048". The smallest one seemed to improve accuracy a bit, I think it was 0.035". I was wondering if it's more difficult to use and also if it would disappear at dusk. It's really not that much smaller however.

Front sight can be adjusted for elevation, need to loosen the hex screw, rotate the front sight post in/out with the AR15 sight tool, then tighten the hex screw. I don't know if it will hold up under recoil, I had no problems with 15-20 rounds. Long-term I wonder if lock-tite should be used on it.

All testing was done at 50 yards with plain jane ball ammo.

One or 2 groups were sighting in, some were with the medium sized ball front sight and some with the finest one, like the group in the top left. It measures just 0.4", the shots seem to almost touch. However, I had trouble replicating it and the groups opened up to between 1.25 -1.75", especially as I installed a larger front sight post. Another possibility is that the groups opened up a bit as the barrel heated up. Probably not but I need to let it cool to eliminate that possibility.

In summary, it's not that the Krebs sight plus a finer front sight post improves accuracy but rather reduces user error resulting in better accuracy.

I still feel the ultimate solution would be to move the rear sight all the way back like in M1 Garand et al, but it doesn't look to be technically feasible (and when it is, it's not economically viable to do such a conversion). IMO, the rear dust cover is not stable enough for the rear site, but some have made such a conversion, successfully. Krebs makes a dust cover but not sure if it's worth it.

I am surprised the thing was so poorly engineered sight-wise from the start. It just adds problems without any visible benefits.
Anyway, a "peep" sight which is a direct replacement for the stock sight IMO and costs 50-60 tokens is the best compromise without dumping too much tokens into it, which is not exactly a target platform to begin with.

steelcore02 · 05-26-2009, 10:53 PM

Have you seen the new Tech-Sight offering? At $100-125, it looks like it is what you want. The one they make for the SKS has similar features. Since you already have a very good front post, this may be just the thing you seek.
http://www.tech-sights.com/

status quo · 05-26-2009, 11:30 PM

Yeah, it does look very interesting. I would like to know how it mounts and if it's sturdy enough. Looks like it needs a special dustcover.

Looking forward to someone doing a review.

http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29416

Quote:

Originally Posted by law27

Hi,
I just thought I would give a quick update on the Tech-SIGHTS AK sight. Production is in full swing and we expect to be shipping about the 3rd week in May. We have finished some beta testing by a fellow that shoots the AK in competition and he is reporting just under 3" groups at 200 yards on a VEPR. He has also confirmed the return to zero feature of the mount. You will notice the cover in the photo to be a lighter gray than the sight base. The cover is stamped steel and finished in Manganese Phosphate (Parkerizing). We have insisted on the parkerized finish because of its corrosion resistance. Depending on the steel, the color varies somewhat. We felt that getting a quality finish was more important than the shade of the color.

steelcore02 · 05-26-2009, 11:43 PM

It has a tang mount, so it should be very solid. The dust cover should come with it too for that price. You should be able to remove the cover without losing your zero.

status quo · 05-27-2009, 12:46 AM

So it mounts on the tang, being pushed into the receiver?

Sounds like I got to test this. When is the release date? They promised late May but June is almost here...

05-25-2009, 10:31 PM	#1
status quo Member AKaholic #: 2767 Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 29	Accurizing with Krebs rear sight I've had terrible luck with stock "pistol" type sights, I couldn't even get groups with them, but more like patterns. I was lucky if I got 6" groups, usually it was all over the paper. This is not an AK issue, I had the same thing with Moisin-Nagants, Mausers, etc. OTOH, I just love the peep sights of M1 Garand, AR. Basically there are 2 types of pseudo-peep sights available for the AK platform. None are as good as the original peep sights but are a drastic improvement IME (In my experience). First, I've had really good luck with the Mojo sight. It's very well made, I liked the steel, not alum metal. The groups got significantly smaller. However, it's key problem is that it's not easily adjustable for elevation. You have to sight it at one optimal distance and just live with it. Say 140m. If you don't want to carry tiny hex wrenches with you and count the number of turns you adjust the screws. I decided to try to the Krebs rear sight. It's basically the same thing as the stock sight but with the apperture added to it. You can easily slide it up/down for elevation. My only minor disappointment is that it has a slight left-right wobble not present in the original or Mojo sight. You have to move it to see it, it doesn't do it on its own. So I think their tolerances could be improved. It doesn't seem to affect accuracy. But then I am a picky customer I suppose. Left to right (windage) adjustments are also made with a hex wrench but then once set, you don't need to touch it. The screws don't come loose and seem to be of a larger diameter than on Mojo. It has a good feel to it. A problem occured: It seemed the front sight post was too large and crude in relationship to the apperture of the Krebs sight. I decided to replace it with a finer front sight post. I used an ACE conversion device which makes the front sight accept AR-type front sight posts. I then ordered then 7-post kit and installed the smallest "ball" type post. The pic shows the medium sized post that I tested with some groups. I had a hard time deciding which one to use. The medium sized "ball" is of the same diameter as the original AK sight post, 0.048". The smallest one seemed to improve accuracy a bit, I think it was 0.035". I was wondering if it's more difficult to use and also if it would disappear at dusk. It's really not that much smaller however. Front sight can be adjusted for elevation, need to loosen the hex screw, rotate the front sight post in/out with the AR15 sight tool, then tighten the hex screw. I don't know if it will hold up under recoil, I had no problems with 15-20 rounds. Long-term I wonder if lock-tite should be used on it. All testing was done at 50 yards with plain jane ball ammo. One or 2 groups were sighting in, some were with the medium sized ball front sight and some with the finest one, like the group in the top left. It measures just 0.4", the shots seem to almost touch. However, I had trouble replicating it and the groups opened up to between 1.25 -1.75", especially as I installed a larger front sight post. Another possibility is that the groups opened up a bit as the barrel heated up. Probably not but I need to let it cool to eliminate that possibility. In summary, it's not that the Krebs sight plus a finer front sight post improves accuracy but rather reduces user error resulting in better accuracy. I still feel the ultimate solution would be to move the rear sight all the way back like in M1 Garand et al, but it doesn't look to be technically feasible (and when it is, it's not economically viable to do such a conversion). IMO, the rear dust cover is not stable enough for the rear site, but some have made such a conversion, successfully. Krebs makes a dust cover but not sure if it's worth it. I am surprised the thing was so poorly engineered sight-wise from the start. It just adds problems without any visible benefits. Anyway, a "peep" sight which is a direct replacement for the stock sight IMO and costs 50-60 tokens is the best compromise without dumping too much tokens into it, which is not exactly a target platform to begin with. __________________ Experience is what you get right after you need it. Last edited by status quo; 05-26-2009 at 11:24 PM.

05-27-2009, 12:46 AM	#5
status quo Member AKaholic #: 2767 Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 29	So it mounts on the tang, being pushed into the receiver? Sounds like I got to test this. When is the release date? They promised late May but June is almost here... __________________ Experience is what you get right after you need it.

05-26-2009, 10:53 PM	#2
steelcore02 Member AKaholic #: 30509 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Kansas Posts: 438	Have you seen the new Tech-Sight offering? At $100-125, it looks like it is what you want. The one they make for the SKS has similar features. Since you already have a very good front post, this may be just the thing you seek. http://www.tech-sights.com/

05-26-2009, 11:43 PM	#4
steelcore02 Member AKaholic #: 30509 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Kansas Posts: 438	It has a tang mount, so it should be very solid. The dust cover should come with it too for that price. You should be able to remove the cover without losing your zero.

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