Century Arms Tantal?

[regius royal]

just wondering if anyone has had the opportunity to play with CIA's new Polish Tantal? They seem to be decently priced, but hows the quality? thanks guys...

[my-rifle]

The word on the strret is that they have to destroy the Polish barrel to get the kits into the country, so Century replaces them with US-made barrels using barrel blanks made for .223 cal. Because the .223 cal. barrels are too big for the 5.45mm round the rifles have trouble stabilizing the bullets, and the result is a lot of keyholed shots and very poor reported accuracy. Most people on the internet are saying to stay away from the Century Tantals.

[my-rifle]

I know what you mean. That's exactly what I said when I heard the people saying it! You will notice that I prefaced my statement with "The word on the street...", because it seems insane to make a 5.45 out of a 5.56 blank. I'll see what I can do to dig up the threads where I saw it reported.

{edit}

Here's one thread:

http://www.gunsnet.net/forums/showthread.php?t=333910

and another:

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=36704

[GaryV]

I've fired one. The barrel is not original (not chrome lined), but the rifle was as accurate out to 100 yards as the Bulgarian AKS-74 I fired at the same time, and there was no keyholing in 300 rounds fired.

[regius royal]

thanks guys, i guess i kinda jumped the gun and ordered one before reading any reply posts....well see how it turns out.
garyv when you shot the rifle did you put it on paper? what type of ammo did you use?

[tdbrown1969]

Originally Posted by regius royal

thanks guys, i guess i kinda jumped the gun and ordered one before reading any reply posts....well see how it turns out.
garyv when you shot the rifle did you put it on paper? what type of ammo did you use?

let us know how yours is,td

[VALMET_M76]

The Russian 5.45x39 is a .223 diameter bullet so its use in a 223 bore diameter barrel would be perfectly acceptable.

Internet bullshit abounds.

I guess I'll have to pull and measure some bullets.

Supposedly milsurp bullets are smaller, "sporting" ammo is supposedly the same as 223.

[tdbrown1969]

Originally Posted by VALMET_M76

The Russian 5.45x39 is a .223 diameter bullet so its use in a 223 bore diameter barrel would be perfectly acceptable.

Internet bullshit abounds.

I guess I'll have to pull and measure some bullets.

Supposedly milsurp bullets are smaller, "sporting" ammo is supposedly the same as 223.

according to this conversion chart this is what came up,td

The 5.45 = .2162

The 5.56 = .2205

http://www.knighthawksupply.com/InMMConv.htm

[GaryV]

Originally Posted by regius royal

thanks guys, i guess i kinda jumped the gun and ordered one before reading any reply posts....well see how it turns out.
garyv when you shot the rifle did you put it on paper? what type of ammo did you use?

I used Bulgarian surplus. Both rifles put all rounds on an 8" circular target at 100 yards, firing from a sitting position, using iron sights. The fit and finish on the gun was good (if you don't mind the grey park). All parts had matching numbers. Everything was tight. Even the muzzle brake has a small spacer that holds it with absolutely no play at all. The one thing I didn't like was that steel Tantal mags will not fit into the mag well - too tight. Had to use Bulgarian polymer mags.

[VALMET_M76]

Yeah but the conversion chart really doesn't apply.

5.45 is just a name, not an actual measurement.

[tdbrown1969]

Originally Posted by VALMET_M76

Yeah but the conversion chart really doesn't apply.

5.45 is just a name, not an actual measurement.

according to this chart VALMET is right,bullet diameter is .2236

TypeRiflePlace of origin Soviet Union
Service historyIn service1974-present
Used bySoviet Union/Russian Federation,former Soviet republics
WarsAfghan War, Georgian Civil War, First Chechen War, Second Chechen War, Balkan Wars
SpecificationsCase typeSteel, rimless, bottleneck
Bullet diameter5.680 mm (0.2236 in)Neck diameter6.248 mm (0.2460 in)Shoulder diameter7.290 mm (0.2870 in)Base diameter10.033 mm (0.3950 in)Rim diameter10.008 mm (0.3940 in)Rim thickness1.372 mm (0.0540 in)Case length39.624 mm (1.5600 in)Overall length56.388 mm (2.2200 in)
Primer typeBerdan, small rifleBallistic performanceBullet weight/typeVelocityEnergy50 gr (3.2 g) 5N7 FMJ915 m/s (3,000 ft/s)1,316 J (971 ft·lbf)Test barrel length: 415 mm (16.6 in)

[FAL GRUNT]

Interesting... I don't think I have a round with me... but someone want to mic a round?

I seem to remember 5.45 bullets being in the .221 category.

-myers

[VALMET_M76]

Well, A Ulyanovosk 5.45 70 grain bullet mikes out at .22175. I believe this bullet is a milspec tracer bullet without the tracer pellet so it may be the small size.

My inertia bullet puller won't break down the Barnaul ammo I have so i can't tell yet what is measures.

I do want to bring to your attention NEW 545 ammo with NEW bullet weights and I'll just about bet you these are 223 bullets.

http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.c...377&dir=18|477

55gr hpbt




http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.c...415&dir=18|477

55gr sp

[FAL GRUNT]

Interesting...

:P

Ruskies are finally catching on. Not too bad of a price for barnual.

-myers

[FAL GRUNT]

If I have a chance next weekend i'll mic some Barnual, Bulgarian, Wolf and Silver Bear. Don't think I have anything else...

I'll also check out the bores on my Tantal, Bulgy, and Sar-2.

Just ... have... to... remember :P

-myers

[creator0203]

FWIW I have a few rounds infront of me

Unknown Russian 5.56 - .2255

TCW .233 - .2255

Wolf 5.45 - .2215

7N6 5.45 - .2205

WASP 5.45 - .2210

[Jerod]

Century has a habit of F-ing up things they build . You should see what they have done to Fal's ! They pay the "Skilled" gunsmiths a whopping 7-8 bucks/hr ! I saw the ad they had in the local newspaper about a year ago. Hell you can make more flipping burgers ! This would explain all the century problems people have. If you get a good rifle that is accurate and works 100% .....you are one lucky SOB !

[Mandaree36]

Sounds like the jury is out, or perhaps some barrels are rejects.

That aside I have a 74 that keyholes every now and then...still cannot figure it out...

Hell I can shoot 300 rounds without one, then blam...there it is, nice keyhole on the target.

I am starting to wonder more about the spam can ammo then the rifle...

Who knows...

[GarandFan]

Originally Posted by VALMET_M76

The Russian 5.45x39 is a .223 diameter bullet so its use in a 223 bore diameter barrel would be perfectly acceptable.

Internet bullshit abounds.

You are entirely correct, Sir....in that internet bullshit abounds.

[FLSTF]

Mine keyholed big time at 75 yards, called Century and they said first time they ever heard of of one doing that....yea right !

[Hilljack]

Now that,........ made me laugh.

[FAL GRUNT]

Nathaniel, your creeping me out.

-myers

[gungoat]

just read that century has taken the tantel off their selling list due to serious problems. any one heard this?

[GarandFan]

Originally Posted by gungoat

just read that century has taken the tantel off their selling list due to serious problems. any one heard this?

I just returned from the NRA convention. Century and Interams both had booths. They each had a tantal on display...I looked more closely at the Interarms one (NDS receiver), and asked the guy there if he'd heard of problems with Century tantals. He just smiled and said "there's been rumors." I got the feeling that he knew far more than he would say.

Century had one on display (also NDS receiver), but I picked up a current catalog of their offerings and to my surprise, there were no tantals in it.

The Interarms rifle had an even park job, but the Century's barrel was a different shade of grey than the rest of it. I presume that's because they are using US barrels.

So I cannot confirm your question, but it appears that there is some evidence to support your notion.

[shadowwolffe]

er shaw .222 Rem.

pacnor

22 Rimfire (.222")
3 groove
16"
5 groove
16"

17"
6 groove
6"

8"

10"

14"

16"

18"

20"
9 groove
16"

17"
Polygonal
16"

5.45 Russian (.222")
4 groove
7.70"

10"

22 lr has he same bore and pacnor makes 220 russian barrels. there is no excuse

Akron Armory

which bore barrels do you use on your 7.62x39 ak's
.30/.308 or .303/.311?

[dstorm1911]

Originally Posted by Akron Armory

Sir,

Could you post a link to such comments.

I do not doubt you, I am not challenging you in any way, I just cannot believe that ANYONE with TWO LIVE BRAIN CELLS in CLOSE PROXIMITY to EACH OTHER would construct such an abortion of a firearm for sale to the general public.



And, thank you in advance.

UHHHH Bob, remember we are talking about Century Arms here............. yet ya are surprised? Do ya wanna hear bout the steam cleaner method of cleaning cosmo off otherwise mint milsurp rifles a pallet at a time (I really love it when purist balk at the thought of someone gettin a wet spong near their Century imported mauser etc) or maybe we can discuss.................. just be glad they didn't use .177 cal barrel blanks....

[tdbrown1969]

I was eyeballing the Century tantal but after hearing and reading about this if I do get one I will spend the extra cash and get one from ATLANTIC.Why does GUNPLUMBER not build any tantals?td

[Nick F]

Find a manufacturer that builds with true Polish Tantal barrels and parts. There are many true Tantals still around. Make sure they use the Nodak Tantal receiver with the Tantal fire control lever configuration. If you get an AK74 receiver come the day you need to sell your butchered Tantal it won't be worth squat. I've seen a few Tantals built on various AK74 receivers without correct Tantal levers and they are damned near worthless because nobody wants them now that there are correct receivers available.

Be careful where your manufacturer sourced their kits too. I have seen hundreds of Tantal kits with chrome flaking in the bore. Some of the manufacturers out there sourced the below par kits for building. Ask where their kits came from. If their built rifle price seems low it may be because they used cheap kits. Take your time buying and find a way to go direct to the builder and save money by avoiding the middleman who usually doesn't know squat about these rifles.

[akajun]

I dont know if this has anything to do with anything but I recieved a sale email from Herb Tufts @ century about 5.45 ammo in they were having a sale on. He stated that the ammo was on sale as it would not stabilize in the us made barrels for 5.45 because the twist rate was to slow, but if you had a "full auto" barrel as he called it which I took to mean a original barrel from europe, the twist rate was OK.

This makes more sense to me than the whole .221 vs .223 debate as I have loaded .308 bullets in .311 rifles with no accuracy problems, but try and fire 69 grain Sierra Matchkings in an old a1 ar15 and you might as well shoot a shotgun.

[cheggie]

My Century Tantal is on the way back now, I'm going to give one opportunity to fix it, just to see what happens. My Tantal would keyhole after about three mags worth of ammo. I had commercial Barnaul, and surplus Bulgarian to shoot, as ID'd by the headstamp. Both shot well with a cool barrel, reasonable offhand grouping on a piece of white cardboard. Both keyholed after the barrel got hot. Both keyholed with the muzzle device removed. I was shooting at a pretty close range, maybe 25 yards. It appeared that the bullets were tumbling very soon after leaving the muzzle. This barrel seemed to take a factory loaded round up to the case mouth in an impromptu MW test, but I don't know if this means anything, as different bullet profiles would cause different results.

I tried slugging the bore with a .22 rimfire bullet, as I had nothing else close to that size in soft lead. I started the bullet from the muzzle, and tapped gently with wood block and a section of cleaning rod to push the slug through. It seemed to be a snug fit, what with the heeled base and all. After about 4" of tapping, the slug seemed to get very loose, it passed through the rest of the barrel with hand pressure. I'm still new to this, but it seems like it should have been somewhat tight the whole way through. It nearly fell out the breech end. I did not have a micrometer at hand, but I saved the slug and will report back about the measurement. I remember the rifling impressions in the slug appeared quite shallow. My initial thought is that the bore diameter is not consistent.

I'm going to give the replacement a critical exam and firing test, and if it doesn't pass muster I'm going to ask politely for a full refund.

[OIF III]

Pretty cheesey build canted sights and all.

[FAL GRUNT]

Did anyone actually pull some 5.45 rounds and measure? I don't want to destroy 3 perfectly good rounds (Barnual, TCW and Bulgarian) to get real measurements.

A .223 bullet measures (literally) .224

I can measure my tantal barrels... it won't be an a very good measurement, but I can see what I can do.

-myers

[tdbrown1969]

Originally Posted by FAL GRUNT

Did anyone actually pull some 5.45 rounds and measure? I don't want to destroy 3 perfectly good rounds (Barnual, TCW and Bulgarian) to get real measurements.

A .223 bullet measures (literally) .224

I can measure my tantal barrels... it won't be an a very good measurement, but I can see what I can do.

-myers

Originally Posted by creator0203

FWIW I have a few rounds infront of me

Unknown Russian 5.56 - .2255

TCW .233 - .2255

Wolf 5.45 - .2215

7N6 5.45 - .2205

WASP 5.45 - .2210

[FAL GRUNT]

Yes, but I assumed that those were ROUNDS, not the bullets themselves. creator, please let us know. When I looked at measuring, I didn't because I have no means to pull the bullets without deforming or marring.

-myers

[creator0203]

That was a FWIW. They were not pulled, I measured at the case mouth on the bullet. I have some pulled 5.45 somewhere but cant find them. If and when I do ill also pull 2 different .223 for the cause unless someone beats me to it. What I did do showed an average of 4-5 thousandths diff but not being pulled makes it kinda worthless. Surely there is a chart or 2 we can search for.

Fun times