a wierd discovery on m70b1 kit!

[jwc0506]

I purchased the kit from apexgunparts -It's a fixed stock m70b1 surplus parts set. anyhow a weird but neat find! apparently my is almost brand spanking new-yet the wood furniture did not match the nice/newer quality of my front half(trunnion, bbl etc..), also the bolt & carrier to be in low miles cond as well! but the strange thing was; the stock set appears to be kinda beat-up compared to the parts i mensioned. anyone have any clues as to WHY the furniture didn;t match? the kit also has all matching numbers by the way. get this! the bore appears NEW!!!!

[Koyotejager]

The furniture was probably switched out somewhere along its journey to you. Like Forrest Gump says: "It happens".

[lextech]

I dont know but both my yugos from Apex were great condition. Are you using a nds or a blank for yours Jim? Im going the blank route but had to shelf it for a bit, to much going on right now, itchen to start choppin at that blank though.

[FAL GRUNT]

Could have also been carried alot, but shot little.

Most likely though, someone along the line was playing mix and match to try and get better kits.

Mind filling out my survey on your new kit?

-myers

[jwc0506]

Originally Posted by lextech

I dont know but both my yugos from Apex were great condition. Are you using a nds or a blank for yours Jim? Im going the blank route but had to shelf it for a bit, to much going on right now, itchen to start choppin at that blank though.

NODAK NODAK NODAK-YES I AM!

[jwc0506]

Originally Posted by Koyotejager

The furniture was probably switched out somewhere along its journey to you. Like Forrest Gump says: "It happens".

TY! i WAS THINKING THAT;S WHAT THE DEAL WAS..... JUST WANTED TO HEAR FROM OTHER'S. NO-COMPAINTS, but like ya said it happens....

[jwc0506]

Fal grunt- it is bizzare! i was staring down into my bore and about fell on my face! the damn bore is mint! so is the bc-well not brand new-but low miles-maybe a few hundred rounds or so.... the bore looks the same. kinda like a new romie with 350 rds thru it. i did pay 2 and half for it plus shippin.


lextech - do urself a favor and order nds. trust me on this one. when mine came in the gun shop my jaw dropped! the thing is remarkably sweet!

[FAL GRUNT]

Nodak's are hands down best. I have built a number of Yugo's on them, as with anything they require minor tweaking, but are good all around.

I just sold a M70 partial kit that I finished out as a underfolder to a buddy. Same thing as yours. Bolt showed no wear, finish VG-EXC, bore absolutely flawless, yet the furniture was dinged and beat up. The wood was original to the kit.... but...

-myers

[dstorm1911]

The wood is the most vulnerable to storage wear and as it was not heavily protected with finish tends to get the worst of wear from storage, all of these guns were captured and just placed in vertical racks in arsenals since the early 90s, or piled in crates the fixed stock rifles were usually in racks even longer some back to the 80s as the AB2 was the primary issued rifle... After the serbs "lost" the arsenals were stripped of most inventory and transfered to the "victims" arsenals....

[jwc0506]

Originally Posted by FAL GRUNT

Nodak's are hands down best. I have built a number of Yugo's on them, as with anything they require minor tweaking, but are good all around.

I just sold a M70 partial kit that I finished out as a underfolder to a buddy. Same thing as yours. Bolt showed no wear, finish VG-EXC, bore absolutely flawless, yet the furniture was dinged and beat up. The wood was original to the kit.... but...

-myers

ok - i'm not alone here.... I figured there had to be several other happy camper's outhere with the yugo's,. prior to ordering the kit i was lead to believe most where shot out, or beat up bad. apparently not all of them. i pauid the xtra dine and went for apex's middle of the road pkg-their $250 deal awile ago. as ya all know they had the $200 dollar base kit(bottom of the bbl), middle unit I got, and finally a high end one with a crisp bore. it was $50 more+shipping so i thought bout rolling the dice and taking me a chance! apparenly it paid off! i am sure it could have went either way-but this is the fun of taking a gamble with a used parts set.

[jwc0506]

Originally Posted by dstorm1911

The wood is the most vulnerable to storage wear and as it was not heavily protected with finish tends to get the worst of wear from storage, all of these guns were captured and just placed in vertical racks in arsenals since the early 90s, or piled in crates the fixed stock rifles were usually in racks even longer some back to the 80s as the AB2 was the primary issued rifle... After the serbs "lost" the arsenals were stripped of most inventory and transfered to the "victims" arsenals....

it could be storage wear? but mine looks like the furniture was possibly from another kit. the stock for sure was it sports anon-matching number-but i was aware of that before i ordered as it was stated on the addy. i also noted that on some of the yugos i have seen on adds had very clean furniture and beater parts set!? now i am thinking along the lones that maybe, just maybe the importers got the parts in pkg.s and during transport etc etc.., the parts got mixed up. and then they had to piece stuf together for resale? this is just speculation, but this is what i think coluld be the case. other then the little busted leg on the ft i am pretty sure it's gonna build up awsum! ofcourse i am gonna be extremely careful due to fact kits all but sold out. they can still be found at a few sites guys if yer out to get one. they are worth it! thanks guys for .02. l8ter.

[FAL GRUNT]

Most likely it was just well used but not fired much. Similar to the IMBEL Fal's if you picked one of those up.

The Yugos are wierd. I have seen some with Like New furniture, and corroded/pitted internals. I have seen beat up furniture and like new bores. When I was selling Yugos there were lots of wierd things. Course that was back when I was trying to convince everyone that these were great rifles and everyone thought they sucked. Now everyone thinks they are amazing and I don't have any kits!

-myers

[my-rifle]

I'm with FAL Grunt on this. I have a pile of Yugo kits, and I've seen it all. Good bores with bad furniture, bad bores with good furniture, and some that match. I wouldn't be surprised either way. About Apex, though - they are shipping some top-notch stuff. I got a Yugo fixed-stock kit a while back - $200 for a "Good Condition" kit, and I got a gorgeous rifle with the Serbian cross tastefully engraved into the front lower handguard. (I wonder if there's a bunch of guys somewhere in Croatia carving up these stocks to sell in the States?)

As for the buying a 100% receiver, it's not really "building" if you buy one already made, now is it? It's more like "assembling" like the AR guys do. The Cold Steel Solutions blanks are really nice too. You build on one of them, and you have rifle you'll be proud of. It's an amazing, fun feeling to take one of those and cut the holes for mag and trigger, then drill and rivet the trigger guard and trunnions, weld in the rails, drill and rivet that center support, then drill, file, and fit the safety. When you take it out you feel a kinship with the rifle that is unparalleled. You can truly say, "This is my rifle. I made it."

[Boognish]

I once bought a Yugo 59/66 that had a virgin Marry sticker on an otherwise refinishd stock. I'm still scratching my head as to how the stock was arsenaly refinished without taking the sticker off.

[FAL GRUNT]

I had one with that chick from 90210 back in the 90's.

-myers

[jwc0506]

Originally Posted by FAL GRUNT

Most likely it was just well used but not fired much. Similar to the IMBEL Fal's if you picked one of those up.

The Yugos are wierd. I have seen some with Like New furniture, and corroded/pitted internals. I have seen beat up furniture and like new bores. When I was selling Yugos there were lots of wierd things. Course that was back when I was trying to convince everyone that these were great rifles and everyone thought they sucked. Now everyone thinks they are amazing and I don't have any kits!

-myers

ahh - interesting.... i could believe it after getting my m70!

yeah i heard some people complain about the m70's, but after firing um you know they as good the next one-if not better!? you can find a few off gunbroker i think. i have not ordered from that site0but why not!? if ya need they r there. not many but.....

it sucks how there are soo many uf versions-but not a hole lotta fixed stock m70's.

heard another company was making m70 b1's as complete rifles but heard they sucked? who could they? wonder if the maker was making them run shitty? anyone. sorry i think Valmet_m76 mensioned a m70 he had that was a pile a crap. it could have been a lemon? the ones i have fired all ran like mak90's-pretty sweet!

[jwc0506]

my-rifle-it is building-even off a NDS! what your doing is buildin your kit off a nodak reciever.

also-the nds is gonna be a lot nicer looking then your average joe's pressed out flat. plus add all the added tools and frusteration-let alone noise levels-add the gf, or wife bitching at you..... then you could see WHY ordering & building off a 100 % reciever is the ticket. it's not for everyone though. i just am going in that directiion myself. i may even start to just build one only when i need something new to shoot, and i may as well start buying complete rifles at the gun shops-what the hell!? i am not stuck on being mr cool joe shmoe builder anyways.... i just build to shoot, also buy and shoot. either way is fine with me. building off a NODAK spud is good enough for other's-so it's good enough for me! also, the nds is gonna be a PROF. BUILT REICEVER probably a lot more quality control-then say a cs, or home-builder's once a mos. made flat. what i am trying to say-is they just don't match up! as hard a i tried w/ltd.funds i could not even come close to a nds reciever. in my head i probably thought i could, but in the end i called it quits and just ordered me a nodak. and i tell you, or the masses outhere-that you simply can't go wrong with DCI industries reciever. I tried to side step this same issue awile back, but after making my purchase i about flipped my lid! they are AWSUM RECIEVERS!!!!! mega-hard bottom edges, even strait side walls, sturdy cs & sleave, fully heat treated under possibly strict guidlines. what more could i want?!?!!??!?

my-rifle you can't even compare cs reciever to a NDS! you really can't. cause they DON'T match-up! the NODAK is gonna be nicer on all angles then cs blank from what i read and see. don't tell me you don't have one yet - a NODAK? Cause if you did you'd know what i am referring to. They are the BEST recievers i have seen so far!

[oksooner]

I also purchased an M70b1 kit from Apex several months ago that had pristine metal and worn wood. Mine clearly looked to be an arsenal rebuild as many of the serial numbers on the parts were electro penciled (quite nicely I might add) to match the trunion. Since I haven't seen yours I can't say for sure but it sounds like it may be similar.

Just a guess, but I figured that, after the little conflict over there, heavily used rifles were rebuilt with new barrels and then eventually exported to the US to be cut down and sold for parts.

[jwc0506]

Originally Posted by oksooner

I also purchased an M70b1 kit from Apex several months ago that had pristine metal and worn wood. Mine clearly looked to be an arsenal rebuild as many of the serial numbers on the parts were electro penciled (quite nicely I might add) to match the trunion. Since I haven't seen yours I can't say for sure but it sounds like it may be similar.

Just a guess, but I figured that, after the little conflict over there, heavily used rifles were rebuilt with new barrels and then eventually exported to the US to be cut down and sold for parts.

mines NOT brand new-but low liles for sure! justy guessing i think maybe 800-1500+ rounds, but i am no expert at checking internal bbl wear etc... it still look shiny. the other night i was just pumped up cause the bore shines. maybe it was used toward of the end of the war? it must have seen sum action-apparently not a lot. my trunnion has a few minor scratches maybe 2? and it has one busted off leg. other then that it's pretty clean. the grenade launching site still has white paint! now wouldn' t ya think if it had major use it would be kinda faded out. my stock set is pretty used/abused though! actually i knew what to expect as it's a surplus product and that's the chance we take making a purchase on a used item. i think my stock set is cleaned good enough for use! if later i get tired of it i can order a new u.s. made stock set. who knows i may like the battlefield look later?! lol.

[jwc0506]

wouldn't it be a dream if all of the sudden a huge batch of brand spankin new ones came in!?!?!?!?!??! but it's not likely.

[my-rifle]

Originally Posted by jwc0506

my-rifle-it is building-even off a NDS! what your doing is buildin your kit off a nodak reciever.

also-the nds is gonna be a lot nicer looking then your average joe's pressed out flat. plus add all the added tools and frusteration-let alone noise levels-add the gf, or wife bitching at you..... then you could see WHY ordering & building off a 100 % reciever is the ticket. it's not for everyone though. i just am going in that directiion myself. i may even start to just build one only when i need something new to shoot, and i may as well start buying complete rifles at the gun shops-what the hell!? i am not stuck on being mr cool joe shmoe builder anyways.... i just build to shoot, also buy and shoot. either way is fine with me. building off a NODAK spud is good enough for other's-so it's good enough for me! also, the nds is gonna be a PROF. BUILT REICEVER probably a lot more quality control-then say a cs, or home-builder's once a mos. made flat. what i am trying to say-is they just don't match up! as hard a i tried w/ltd.funds i could not even come close to a nds reciever. in my head i probably thought i could, but in the end i called it quits and just ordered me a nodak. and i tell you, or the masses outhere-that you simply can't go wrong with DCI industries reciever. I tried to side step this same issue awile back, but after making my purchase i about flipped my lid! they are AWSUM RECIEVERS!!!!! mega-hard bottom edges, even strait side walls, sturdy cs & sleave, fully heat treated under possibly strict guidlines. what more could i want?!?!!??!?

my-rifle you can't even compare cs reciever to a NDS! you really can't. cause they DON'T match-up! the NODAK is gonna be nicer on all angles then cs blank from what i read and see. don't tell me you don't have one yet - a NODAK? Cause if you did you'd know what i am referring to. They are the BEST recievers i have seen so far!

Actually I bought 1 100% receiver, and I use it as a template on my Cold Steel Solutions blanks. The receiver, by the way, is a Ewbanks, and all the holes line up perfectly every time. I've done a Romanian RPK, an M70AB2, and an M70B1. All perfect. The top and bottom corners of the 100% receivers are a bit crisper than the Cold Steel Solutions blanks, but that's the only real difference. I think there might be a subtle difference in the line of the trunnion bulge, but the average person would never notice it unless it's pointed out (as I am diong now). Once the receivers are blued they really look great. This one I hot-blued.

I'll concede your point though that it's not for everyone. Some people just want the rifles, and don't want to go to the trouble of learning to build them. I understand that perspective. I was there at one time. I've come to the point where I ask people if they enjoy doing work with their hands, or if they just want a rifle. If their answer is the latter, I tell them to just buy a rifle. They aren't going to save money by building one rifle.

You should know though that I'm no machinist, and if an all-thumbs idiot like me can do it, anyone can.

[FAL GRUNT]

oksooner, actually your rifle probably wasn't a rebuild.

Every Yugo I have handled or looked at has those electro pencil numbers. I personally have handled probably 75-80 kits/rifles and havn't seen one yet without them. Two possibilities exist, one is the rebuild/reclamation number. That being all of these rifles are captured, so maybe they were numbered accoring to their new homes "system". I don't believe this is true however as cases would then exist with mis-matched numbers, but matching electro pencil numbers. Kits I have seen with mis-matched numbers have mis-matched electro pencil. The alternative is that the numbers are used in the build process to keep parts together. I don't know, i've been trying to contact a guy named bodnik in Yugoslavia about it.

No luck so far.

If any of you have not filled out my survey, would you please visit it here:
http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35250

thanks

-myers

[jwc0506]

my-rifle you have to get one of the nds recievers to know what we talking about....believe me your'll be saying the same thing! LOL. like i said, when i picked mine up at the gun shop i about fell on my face. TOTALLY PERFECT ON ALL ANGLES, LEVELS ETC...

[Trueno]

jwc0506, did you get a stamped rear trunnion with your kit?

t

[jwc0506]

Originally Posted by Trueno

jwc0506, did you get a stamped rear trunnion with your kit?

t

i sure did! if i didn't i would have asked for a refund or exchange. why did you get a milled trunnion?

[Trueno]

Originally Posted by jwc0506

why did you get a milled trunnion?

Nope, just remember seein' some stamped kits with milled rears and thought I'd ask.

thanks,

t

[my-rifle]

jwc0506, with respects to you, my friend I won't ever assemble a rifle from a 100% receiver unless I'm asked to do so by someone else. When I build on a flat or a blank every hole is in the right place - because I put them in the right place. I don't buy pre-drilled flats, because I don't want to trust someone else's ability to predict what a third party (the original manufacturer) will do in the first place. I've heard reports of people having to egg out rivet holes in NDS receivers, because they didn't line up with the trunnion holes. To give Harlan at NDS his due, it probably isn't his fault. The rifle manufactures are likely the ones who had inconsistent practices, but nevertheless, I want to be able to put the rivet holes exactly where they belong. Since I sand-blast and hot-blue all my builds, the finish matches perfectly from muzzle to butt - a result that is particularly difficult to achieve when you buy a receiver someone else made, then try to match the finish to the rest of the kit.

I built my first AK from a flat, and I've fabricated every receiver I've ever used. Back then I didn't know anything about metal work, and my build showed it. My first build on a blank was similarly flawed. These days my builds are very good compared to others I see, and I really enjoy the fabrication work, so I just can't see surrendering that fun to someone else. Likewise the pleasure I get from owning and shooting a receiver I made from a blank piece of steel is truly satisfying much more so than simply having crisp corners on my receivers which I bought from someone else.

Now I hope I don't come across as condescending to others who buy their receivers instead of making them, but it is not for me, and I encourage others to try their hand at building, because I want them to get the same pleasure I get from owning and operating rifles I made myself.

Cheers everyone - and don't forget to stock up on kits and ammo while they're here.

[jwc0506]

my-rifle that's your call, but i could say your missing out if your just relying on word of mouth..... up to you though.

i did the samw as you-built a awsum ak74 parts kit off a akbuilder flat-all the holes are correct, got my bottom edges as hard as i could with a dph flat jig. actually they are harder then i anticipated. sum downsides to bent tube: due to fact reciever is NOT fully HEAT TREATED i had occasional situations where the reciever was more prone to bending, or disorting during the build. this was not good. i figured a nds, or another brand reciever-being full heat treated would be LES PRONE TO distortion. i will let ya all know when i rivet this sucker up here soon. my own rifles i built off flats-mainly 2 bulgies work perfect-although my recievers where not perfect. one hole i buggered up and had to weld it shut. it's holding up fine, but time will tell.... the other i just have a single hole on the bottom i need to weld shut where the flat jig holes align.... i hear your point-that a serious builder like most of here who get our hands dirty know what it takes for a funcional reciever. but here's where i draw the line. the commericllay made reciever is going to be generally better then any of out homemade recivers-unless we have all the tools the manufacturer has at their disposal. kilns, welders etc... plus the fact they run them out in bigger batches-the over all quality jumps up to a higher level then what i could come up with-period. plus i figured if say i ever decided to sell my used home-build it's on a legally marked reciever! a NDS! so i figure i kill 2 birds with 1 stone. actually i kill 3 birds! the 3rd is that i dont have to have loud equip needed to make the flats into recievers. no more loud dremeling, no more spot welding-just slap her together! and that's good enough for me.

[jwc0506]

another thing i would like to point out. there are a lotta people who want to build, but have no skills to run power tools-cause they aren't willing to take the time to learn. or they have a mind block stopping them. or they lack the funds to get all the costly tooling. these people are better off trying to build off a 100% reciever, or-simply going to the gun shop and purchasing a sweet rifle! the other option is order theiur kit and reciever and send it to a ak gun smith to build it. now that's much better then trying to build, or possibly destroying a high end kkit with improper technical know how & skills. in that case a guy would be better off having his/her rifle built for them. to relate this to my situation- a nds reciever, or any 100% reciever suits me due to my current lack of tools and work space due to my move. the simpler the better. if i can take my nds and assmble it without having to weld on, or drill holes-that is gonna save me a big hassle in the tooling and noise dept. i don't have a garage and have my press in my corner kitchen so when i assemble my kit i can't have excess noise to bother the neighbors. this is WHY i chose a nds reciever. also. i read a lot of good reviews. cs i have heard so so reviews for the most part.

[oksooner]

Originally Posted by FAL GRUNT

oksooner, actually your rifle probably wasn't a rebuild.

Every Yugo I have handled or looked at has those electro pencil numbers. I personally have handled probably 75-80 kits/rifles and havn't seen one yet without them. Two possibilities exist, one is the rebuild/reclamation number. That being all of these rifles are captured, so maybe they were numbered accoring to their new homes "system". I don't believe this is true however as cases would then exist with mis-matched numbers, but matching electro pencil numbers. Kits I have seen with mis-matched numbers have mis-matched electro pencil. The alternative is that the numbers are used in the build process to keep parts together. I don't know, i've been trying to contact a guy named bodnik in Yugoslavia about it.

Hmmmmm. The barrel looked brand new, the trunion, bc,front sight, rear sight all look to have been refinished. The wood was beat both front and rear. The gas block looked new and the piston looked new. The gas tube looks great on the outside but the interior is pitted quite heavily. It is serialed to the rest of the gun.


Hell who knows but it sure looks rebuilt to me. If I get time I'll post pics.

[jwc0506]

oksooner-these yugos are used-BATTLEFIELD PICK UPS! I THINK MOST - IF NOT ALL OF THE USED ONES/KITS WHERE USED IN THE BALKANS WARS and maybe others? just feel lucky it has a good bore etc.

[oksooner]

Originally Posted by jwc0506

oksooner-these yugos are used-BATTLEFIELD PICK UPS!

OK.... with pics. I feel 98% certain that the barrel on this kit was new. There is zero evidence that it was fired before me. As you can see from the pic of the front end, the metal is perfect. All S/N match....everything. But look at the pic of the bolt and you can tell it was re-serialed. You can even see the original S/N. The dust cover, trunion and gas tube all match with originally marked S/N but the bolt and carrier have been forced to match. Even thought the gas tube looks perfect, and I do mean perfect on the outside, the inside shows definite signs of extended use. The more I look at this the more certain I am that this was an arsenal rebuild.

Now that I think of it, I have a 59/66 that is eerily similar to this AK.

[jwc0506]

yours looks nicer then mine! you lucky son of a gun! if ur a newbie-one suggestion-have it built by a pro! unless u can do a few romies-like3 before u touch that thing!

[jwc0506]

show the entire kit-side view k.

[oksooner]

Originally Posted by jwc0506

yours looks nicer then mine! you lucky son of a gun! if ur a newbie-one suggestion-have it built by a pro! unless u can do a few romies-like3 before u touch that thing!

Newbie?...uh, no. I just haven't posted much on this board. I finished this rifle about November of last year. Kit came from Apex and furniture is Ironwood.