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Old 03-20-2008, 08:03 PM   #1
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Default Home Brew Parking Results

well here is the results of my home brew parkerizing.I don't get the two results.one is black(FSB)and the trunions and one is grey,receiver.they were put in at the same time,in the same tank.they come out two different colors.go figure..any ideas on why?.both blasted,degreased etc.


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Old 03-20-2008, 11:33 PM   #2
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Different metals. One is harden steel the other isn't. There is a thread on another board that tells about this. I will find and post.

Kikilee


ETA - Not the exact thread I am looking for but this one touches on it in step 4.

http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/vie...p?f=80&t=22740
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Old 03-21-2008, 01:03 AM   #3
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Wow great link K.

I am now def going to do my own home parking, I cannot wait to try.

So then where is the best place to get the acid?
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Old 03-21-2008, 01:54 AM   #4
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I used this stuff mandy,from home depot,it says it's like 80% phosphoric acid and only costs about 12 bucks a gallon and makes something like 130 gallons of park..FWIW.I think I should get the caswells pre-dip or the oxpho? or the brownells pre-dip..

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Old 03-21-2008, 02:17 AM   #5
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http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=4&f=51&t=103062

http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/vie...095767a37e9bfa

http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.co...k/pagepark.htm

Couple more links



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Old 03-21-2008, 03:18 AM   #6
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TY Ding

Yeah I think I would try the pre-dip, setting up my basic idea of how I want to tackle it and I think the pre-dip will be part of it.

I also think, like John had mentioned, it might be nice to not use it or even use the Zinc for some contrast, like with the rear sight.

Looks like a blast either way though.
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Old 03-21-2008, 12:36 PM   #7
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thanx guys,found one more link that might help to..so I guess to get the consistant overall "black" look you have to pre-dip the parts in a pre-black agent.lesson learned.but I guess this would be the cheapest way to park if anyone was on a slim budget.I can park all my tools,garden flowers,work bench,knives,cats,pick-up and whatever else falls into the solution..

http://www.jouster.com/articles30m1/parkerizing.html
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Old 03-21-2008, 01:30 PM   #8
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ok did my truck and as you can see it came out the same way as the other parts,some grey and some black..proves that ya must pre dip before parking..ok next..where's that darn cat,kitty kitty..
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Old 03-21-2008, 06:11 PM   #9
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"Hi honey. Look .... I parked the cat"

Yeah... that would go over real well. :-)
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Old 03-21-2008, 06:13 PM   #10
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Now I'm really torn - I'll have to do one AK with park and another with valmet blue.

I've always wanted to park and you've got me real interested now. I'd like to get one of the dark grey/black colors. Whose pre-dip should I be looking at?
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Old 03-21-2008, 06:28 PM   #11
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caswells or brownells..and I hate that cat.the home brew stuff really works good.I took a D size battery and threw it in the mix along with the klean strip,water and a 0000 steel wool bisquit in the pot.the trunions and other parts came out real black,crisp coloring and the grey is real grey so this stuff is a cheap alternative to the home brew artist.just a pre- or post dip for the greys or just paint over the parts.will work perfectly.I'm impressed,and if I can do it someone with knowledge will surely succeed..(edited)take the end off the D cell battery and take out the black powdery junk,there will be some paper like thingy filled with junk in the center,discard it,just the black powder is what ya want,the manganese dioxide.

http://www.caswellplating.com/kits/black.htm

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/sto...il.aspx?p=1057
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Old 03-21-2008, 06:31 PM   #12
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Thanks for writing this up ding.
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Old 03-21-2008, 06:40 PM   #13
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here is a pic of a FSB that I did today next to a romy original park job.keep in mind that I blasted this thing before doing it.I think it came out perfect in color.home brew at its best..

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Old 03-21-2008, 06:44 PM   #14
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Now that is nice Ding.
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Old 03-21-2008, 07:46 PM   #15
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Color doesn't matter if you are prepping for paint.

How did you get that great mud-colored park on the truck?

-- Max
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Old 03-21-2008, 09:55 PM   #16
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Default FSB

Ding - did you pre-dip the FSB?. Valmet commented in another thread that you could use the "rust blue for a pre-dip. Apply, let it rust up, rinse with the hottest water you can stand and it turns out black, now drop in your park tank. I am going to try this. I have plenty of the rust blue and a blast cabinet. If it doesn't turn out, blast it and start over.
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Old 03-21-2008, 10:25 PM   #17
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What is the chemical make up of pre dip?
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Old 03-22-2008, 12:16 AM   #18
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no pre-dip fellas,just the solution prep and etch,D cell innards,plug of 0000 steel wool and water.it seems as though the rifle parts come out a perfect black and the home rolled receiver comes out grey..go figure.I am confident I will be doin my rifle parts now.oh,and if ya add the already parked parts,they will come out even darker black,like brand new is the only way I can describe it.

max-guy,that is the new mud grey peel and stick from brownells.stuff looks real don't it..
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Old 03-22-2008, 12:20 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kikilee
Ding - did you pre-dip the FSB?. Valmet commented in another thread that you could use the "rust blue for a pre-dip. Apply, let it rust up, rinse with the hottest water you can stand and it turns out black, now drop in your park tank. I am going to try this. I have plenty of the rust blue and a blast cabinet. If it doesn't turn out, blast it and start over.
Don't let it rust. Just let it dry good then rinse it.

Here is USGIgunsmith's tip as he gave it to us. Thanks to CPO Ted for saving this stuff for us.

Another tip: Slow rust blue solution can be used to pre-treat items to be Brownell's Parkerized. I like to apply an even coat to parts with a q-tip and allow the parts to sit with the acid on them for 10 to 20 minutes. Then I put on Butyl rubber gloves. The parts are then carded by hand to get the acid off under clean tap water before being wired with stainless wire to a stainless steel or plastic rack and lowered in the Parkerizing tank.

When parts have been pre-treated like this the Brownell's Parkerizing comes out a very even dark charcoal color almost black. Very close to the old original Ordnance Park used on 1903 receivers and bolts in the 1920 and 1930s.

Brownells sells a pre-treat solution to produce blacker Parkerized parts and I believe what they are selling is just slow rust blue solution in another package!

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Old 03-22-2008, 12:46 AM   #20
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wow val,mine was blued already.I will redo my receiver like this and test it again.thank you.I'm going at this stuff blind,trial and error..it seems that all the parts,rifle steel if you will is turning black as coal but the receiver for some reason will only turn grey.maybe with what ya put up here that will change.tomorrow will tell..
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Old 03-22-2008, 12:59 AM   #21
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Ding - I don't think you can park over a blued finish. At least not and get a decent result. Everything I have read say the parts must be blasted to bare metal, then de-greased, and either pre-dip and park or straight to park.

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Old 03-22-2008, 01:18 AM   #22
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kikilee,that receiver has been done twice,once blued and once blasted.that is why I have given up trying to blacken it with the home brew.I will try vals way here tomorrow and if that don't work I will just gun-kote it in flat black.all the other parts will blacken up perfectly BUT the receivers.I will try different parts and tools to see what takes and what doesn't..something about the receivers metal? even the heat treated parts don't blacken but the spot welds do..go figure huh..at least the receiver will be parked for the gun-kote.LOL
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Old 03-22-2008, 04:49 PM   #23
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Different steels, different hardness in the same piece of steel, even differing temps will all effect the final color result.

I've used the Brownells pre-dip blackener. No idea what's in it, but you mix it with a much larger amount of hydrochloric acid and water to make a working solution. We kept it in a 30 gallon plastic trash can and dipped the parts in it. Usually 10-20 seconds was all it took, the parts came out solid black with what looked like a fine fuzzy flock on it. Based on that, I doubt it's the same stuff as the rust blue simply because of the rapid action.

Directly into the zinc park bath for the normal process after dipping. Everything always came out solid black. They say it can be used with the manganese as well, but the results are varied so they don't recommend it.
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Old 03-22-2008, 05:02 PM   #24
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kernel,any difference in the manganese as to the zinc.can I use this kwik klean as the base for zinc parking with the addition of zinc and then use the pre black before dunking it?? so basically the parking solution is based on the same solution but with different ingredients,ie-manganese and zinc ??
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Old 03-22-2008, 08:57 PM   #25
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Default Mix ratio

Ding give us the mix ratio! Example

1 gal water ???
1 d cell alkaline battery innards
1 OZ kleen strip prep???
1 steel wool pad

I'm assuming cook at 180-200 Deg f for 30 min to dissolve pad and prep formula then dip parts (after prep) untill hard bubbling stops. remove from solution flush with clean warm water. repeat as necessary to obtain color or until bubbling stops?? This is how dura coat recommends using their solution but it gives a greyer tone than ther black you picked up. I think the battery component mixture may be key here. Thanks Chief
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Old 03-22-2008, 09:54 PM   #26
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I believe both the zinc and manganese formulas are similar except for the metal dissolved into them. At least that's what the home brew recipes are saying, personally I have a gallon of each in the Brownells concentrate so I pretty much have a lifetime supply for my own use. The commercial solutions are tested and proven, so I recommend them highly. However, this is the 'Files so some experimentation with homemade solutions is to be expected!

I like the zinc better for use under spray on finishes. Finer grain pattern to it, looks smoother. Light grey usually.

BTW, the "alkaline battery innards" is not the whole thing, just the powdery black stuff for the manganese.
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Old 03-22-2008, 10:46 PM   #27
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chief
I have a 2 +gallon ceramic canning pot that I have been using for my parts.I filled up the 2 + gallon pan with water and put about 1/3 of the small bottle in it,maybe 3/4 to 1 cup???.I didn't get the 1 gallon jug yet,now I will..remember I am experimenting here. D cell battery and scraped the black powder out(it will be on the outer side of the center,you will see and understand when ya open it up)took a whole 0000 steel wool plug and put it in the pot along with the manganese powder at about 180-190 degrees until they dissolved,about 15 minutes more or less.that is about the gist of it.
3/4 to 1 cup of klean strip
2 gallons water
1 pad steel wool
1 D cell battery(black powder inside)
heat up to operating temp(180-190 for me)
dissolve steel wool and manganese and then dunk your parts..I checked after about 15-20 minutes and found that the color was fine.I quickly cleaned them and oiled them.one word here,make sure the manganese powder is dissolved first..otherwise leaves a black powdery substance on parts..
now I might have used too much acid(klean strip) so if ya want you can add less at first then work up to what you perceive works best for you.just a thought.it really bubbles/fizzes like crazy tho..LOL
P.S.here.with this recipe I might have made a concentrate out of the concentrate..LOL..
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Old 03-22-2008, 10:53 PM   #28
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kernel..yes I did use just the black powder from the sides of the battery.I don't think on my next batch I will need quite so much..LOL..maybe something like 2-3 ozs.(tablespoon or two)will suffice..I was just trying to ask if zinc is the difference that makes the grey soley on the parts(all)by just adding zinc to the kwik clean..no black manganese..thank you for the idea..I remember awhile back that you mentioned this(battery etc.)in a thread..you gave me the brainstorm to try this..Like ya say,this is the files and we do some weird stuff here and this is one of them..LOL..this one is your cookie man..
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Old 03-24-2008, 02:23 PM   #29
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here are some parts that have just been done..I think this stuff is just as good as the high priced other stuff.can't tell it from the real deal..it goes on solid and even and leaves a good finish coat.I had it in the solution about 15-20 minutes,kept checking the progress at 5 minute intervals.the fizzing slowed down at the end a little.I think maybe I have too much phosphoric acid in so like I said start with a little and work your way up..

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Old 03-25-2008, 03:59 PM   #30
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Default Stainless Steel Pan

For those looking for a stainless steel pan/tray to park in; here is what I came up with. Can't do a barreled receiver but can do them separately then press the barrel. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA:IT&ih=008
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Old 03-25-2008, 05:08 PM   #31
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Man that last batch is damn nice Ding...

You should make another post, step by step of how, what, etc.

Would be a nice set of instructions for a sticky.
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Old 03-25-2008, 06:48 PM   #32
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Ding - how about a pic of the side of the receiver when you get a chance? Did this one darken up at all?

Kikilee



Quote:
Originally Posted by ding
here are some parts that have just been done..I think this stuff is just as good as the high priced other stuff.can't tell it from the real deal..it goes on solid and even and leaves a good finish coat.I had it in the solution about 15-20 minutes,kept checking the progress at 5 minute intervals.the fizzing slowed down at the end a little.I think maybe I have too much phosphoric acid in so like I said start with a little and work your way up..

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Old 03-25-2008, 07:50 PM   #33
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no kikilee,I was showing the trunion's color,same as the rest of the parts.I haven't tried to redo the receiver yet,but am doing the gun-kote thang on it.got some KG coatings coming soon.flat black..the solution must have aged good cause when I did the second group of parts they came out beautiful,like they should..
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Old 03-26-2008, 05:53 PM   #34
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Ding - Are you using the same batch of solution over and over? I saw somewhere that this solution couldn't be used once it had cooled. Other commercial parkerizing solutions mention they can be "refreshed" and reused.

I plan on trying this solution out in a week or two on an AK. I will see if I can find manganese oxide locally or I will be busting open batteries to get it. I plan on using Caldwel's black solution after the parkerizing to darken the finish and make it more uniform over the receiver where the locally hardened areas would parkerize in different shades.
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Old 03-26-2008, 06:48 PM   #35
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yup sw44 same old batch as it seems to get better each use.I just add water to it as I probably have alot of solution going.LOL as far as it not being used again I can truely say it can be used over and over as I have used it six times so far and it is still going like gangbusters..good luck..
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