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Old 12-18-2016, 12:11 AM   #1
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Default BINARY TRIGGER. WTF?!

I just watched a video from the well known gun pimp, Sooch (same guy that made the cool IO Factory Tour video where he shorts and hears a click and says "It's Excellent!!).

https://youtu.be/9DhGoDp2ktk

What do you guys think about a fire control group that gives you the ability to shoot another round on the trigger reset?

It goes from safe to semi to binary. I think binary is a tricksy way of two round burst.

I want one for my AK's. What do you think?
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Old 12-18-2016, 12:16 AM   #2
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As Dave pointed out to me a binary trigger is legal, ATF defines each movement of a trigger as a movement and if the gun fires on each movement than fine.
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Old 12-18-2016, 12:26 AM   #3
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That is great. It slipped in between the ass crack of the asshole legislations regulations. I think every working man needs a full auto AK and full auto MP-5 submachine gun.
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Old 12-18-2016, 12:28 AM   #4
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Who is going to make a binary trigger for the AK? Can it be done?
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Old 12-18-2016, 12:31 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabre5G View Post
Who is going to make a binary trigger for the AK? Can it be done?
Don't know why not, i'm not an engineer though
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Old 12-18-2016, 01:01 AM   #6
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I " know someone " that has been doing it for years with a Mini 14/30 trigger and a broken piece of safety pin.
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Old 12-18-2016, 01:24 AM   #7
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Is it weird that I actually resent them for not making an AK version?
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Old 12-18-2016, 01:27 AM   #8
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Yeah, I wonder what it would take to make one for the AK. And then, the figment is different with each variant. I am sure it can be done. The other question I have is would it be reliable?
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Old 12-18-2016, 01:27 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabre5G View Post
Who is going to make a binary trigger for the AK? Can it be done?
Of course it can be made.
If you like the binary trigger, add a slidefire into the mix, mag dumps in 2 seconds
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Old 12-18-2016, 01:37 AM   #10
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Binary for an AK would be kinda difficult for one reason.

On the AR version, if you pull the trigger and don't want it to fire on release, you can switch the safety over to semi and it won't fire on release.

How would you accomplish this with the ak?

You would be forced to fire that second shot.
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Old 12-18-2016, 01:42 AM   #11
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Has anyone here used one to determine if it's worth a shit?
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Old 12-18-2016, 01:49 AM   #12
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Looks like they raised the price $30 from the last time this was brought up (Jan):
http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=248249
Quote:
Originally Posted by PRasko View Post
Binary for an AK would be kinda difficult for one reason.

On the AR version, if you pull the trigger and don't want it to fire on release, you can switch the safety over to semi and it won't fire on release.

How would you accomplish this with the ak?

You would be forced to fire that second shot.
If you didn't want to take the second shot you could drop the magazine and wrack the bolt before letting go of the trigger. Then it would just dry fire, which would do nothing. That wouldn't exactly be easy though, especially for someone who's right handed. Doable yes (I do it all the time), but much more of a pain than just flipping the setting on the left hand side.
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Old 12-18-2016, 02:02 AM   #13
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warning in some states this is an MG, Oregon is one of those states.
Oregon law is one pull and release of the trigger one shot.
they don't ship the binary trigger to OR, WA, ND, IA.

ORS 166.210 paragraph 6, which defines what constitutes a machine gun, states "......weapon........designed or modified to allow two or more shots to be fired by a single pressure on the trigger device"


all about how it is worded according to the manufacture of the binary who will not ship to the mentioned states
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Old 12-18-2016, 02:24 AM   #14
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I personally don't think they are that practical.
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Old 12-18-2016, 02:31 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabre5G View Post
Who is going to make a binary trigger for the AK? Can it be done?
I saw one personally at the range last time I was there on a WASR, he did it himself. putting it back on safe was more than I would want to try to remember. Might be good for the SHTF gun only.
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Old 12-18-2016, 12:42 PM   #16
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I would like to try one. With training on it, you could dump reasonable rounds on target.

The other thing I noticed was that they said that Wheaton Arms or whoever personally installed it. I wonder if they really aren't reliable in a shitty shat where ate M-4 carbine.

Sooch would shill for a disposable rifle if he got it for free.
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Old 12-18-2016, 07:04 PM   #17
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Interesting but I will pass on the idea.
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Old 12-18-2016, 07:24 PM   #18
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I clicked on this thinking they had made one for the AK. Way to get my hopes up. I'd buy one if they could make it so that it was reliable.
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Old 12-18-2016, 07:29 PM   #19
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The Binary Trigger sucks, the one you want is the Fostech Echo
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Old 12-18-2016, 07:42 PM   #20
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As far as I know, the Fostech is the better way to go and the only one that allows you to engage the safety or revert to semi while holding back the trigger and it allows you to engage the safety even if the hammer is not cocked. Some of the Franklin owners also reported some issues due to the inherent design of their system. Apparently, it doesn't happen on the Fostech design.
We did a group buy at my work for 8 Fostechs and our six-month wait should be up next month. I'll let you know how good they are once I have mine installed.
I wish, I wish, I wish Fostech would make such a trigger for the AK. Maybe they're working on it, who knows. If they did, they could stand to make A LOT of money.
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Old 12-18-2016, 08:36 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabre5G View Post
That is great. It slipped in between the ass crack of the asshole legislations regulations. I think every working man needs a full auto AK and full auto MP-5 submachine gun.
No way, man. It specifically says in the US Constitution only muskets!
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Old 12-18-2016, 10:06 PM   #22
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As far as I know, the Fostech is the better way to go and the only one that allows you to engage the safety or revert to semi while holding back the trigger and it allows you to engage the safety even if the hammer is not cocked. Some of the Franklin owners also reported some issues due to the inherent design of their system. Apparently, it doesn't happen on the Fostech design.
We did a group buy at my work for 8 Fostechs and our six-month wait should be up next month. I'll let you know how good they are once I have mine installed.
I wish, I wish, I wish Fostech would make such a trigger for the AK. Maybe they're working on it, who knows. If they did, they could stand to make A LOT of money.
The Fostech has an extra disconnector that will not let the hammer drop until it's in full battery. The Binary from Franklin, doesn't. Which means it can have hammer follow and possible (although very unlikely due to the design of the AR) out of battery discharges.
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These DB pissing contests amuse me greatly. Good men flailing at each other like old women fighting over extra space on the clothes line for their bloomers to hang.
It's fucking idiotic. Everyone calling into question each other's character over the most trivial of things. It's like the fucking Special Olympics locker room snapping retarded asses with towels.
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Old 12-19-2016, 12:25 AM   #23
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Find a Fostech for sale, there are many threads on this on AR15 pages, Fostech has take down payments and not delivered 1 single trigger outside of betas that I could find. they are also fighting ATF legalities per many threads.. hence the ONLY option available IS the Binary.. and if Fosetech doesn't deliver soon, I see a major "brand equity" issue..

I have a Binary I plan to get rollin on this week. Will report results, Gen 3 of the binary is supposed to be 100%.. we'll see soon!!

Would love to see pictures of the binary FCG pulled from the Clayco!

Last edited by TurboCobra; 12-19-2016 at 12:57 AM.
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Old 12-19-2016, 02:35 AM   #24
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The Franklin Armory binary trigger (BFS III specifically) works pretty well.
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Old 12-19-2016, 02:39 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboCobra View Post
Find a Fostech for sale, there are many threads on this on AR15 pages, Fostech has take down payments and not delivered 1 single trigger outside of betas that I could find. they are also fighting ATF legalities per many threads.. hence the ONLY option available IS the Binary.. and if Fosetech doesn't deliver soon, I see a major "brand equity" issue..

I have a Binary I plan to get rollin on this week. Will report results, Gen 3 of the binary is supposed to be 100%.. we'll see soon!!

Would love to see pictures of the binary FCG pulled from the Clayco!
Wrong. A friend has had his for almost a week now.
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These DB pissing contests amuse me greatly. Good men flailing at each other like old women fighting over extra space on the clothes line for their bloomers to hang.
It's fucking idiotic. Everyone calling into question each other's character over the most trivial of things. It's like the fucking Special Olympics locker room snapping retarded asses with towels.
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Old 12-19-2016, 03:10 AM   #26
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I actually want to try one. I never thought the bump fire stocks were good but I think a binary may fit the bill if I want to tear an ass up. I would really like a two round burst rifle. And I hope they really change the SBR, silenecers, and full auto regs under Trump. I highly doubt it though l
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Old 12-19-2016, 03:19 AM   #27
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They are neat toys, but toys they are. Binary triggers (BFS and Echo) are NOT reliable enough (yet) for consideration for self defense. Nor are they a wise choice for such, as you would need a CRAPLOAD of training to ingrain in your head to NOT forget that final shot (and with adrenaline pumping, tunnel vision, and resorting back to muscle memory) upon release. Good luck with that after most people have DECADES of shooting "normally" (pull fire, release safe). Add to that most people that have AR's have multiples of them, so they would have to mentally keep track of WHICH one they were firing, what "mode" they are in, and WHERE (which position) their trigger is currently in ... ALL at a time when split seconds count, and your life is on the line?? LOL... yea, F that. A MG still operates under the fundamental principle of "release finger to cease fire/firing". It won't take long before someone gets killed because of the "non traditional" firing sequence a binary trigger uses.
Fun... sure. Personally I wouldn't own one (binary)if you paid me. However... a MG on the other hand.. hell yeah! :-)
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Old 12-19-2016, 03:22 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fade2Blk View Post
Has anyone here used one to determine if it's worth a shit?
I've tried them twice, both on AR's owned by 2 different friends.

I didn't care for it at all.


I can fire more rapidly WITHOUT the binary trigger. The problem was that when you rapidly pull and release the trigger, you actually get "ahead" of the mechanism, so that the firing doesn't even correlate with the actually trigger position, and it makes firing erratic.

Waste of money, IMO.


If you just want the fun of simulating full auto, the SlideFire stocks are more fun, and they DO make them for AK's. Have tried one on an NPAP, works great.
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Old 12-19-2016, 08:21 AM   #29
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Quote:
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Has anyone here used one to determine if it's worth a shit?
The BFS3 is awesome. Put about 500rds through one yesterday. 0 issues
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Old 12-19-2016, 09:23 AM   #30
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Fostech Echo! Much better designed and doesn't have the issues!
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Old 12-19-2016, 09:24 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PRasko View Post
Binary for an AK would be kinda difficult for one reason.

On the AR version, if you pull the trigger and don't want it to fire on release, you can switch the safety over to semi and it won't fire on release.

How would you accomplish this with the ak?

You would be forced to fire that second shot.

simple. if you dont want to fire 2 shots dont put the selector to "Binary".
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Old 12-19-2016, 09:28 PM   #32
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A member here spelled out how to make a binary trigger for the AK in a discussion several years ago. In short: two disconectors, One normal semi, and one with a FA tail, cut down to the point that it catches the hammer, but releases it where the front hook can't catch it.
Selector sequence would be: Safe, Double, semi
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Old 12-19-2016, 09:52 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GroverM10 View Post
They are neat toys, but toys they are. Binary triggers (BFS and Echo) are NOT reliable enough (yet) for consideration for self defense. Nor are they a wise choice for such, as you would need a CRAPLOAD of training to ingrain in your head to NOT forget that final shot (and with adrenaline pumping, tunnel vision, and resorting back to muscle memory) upon release. Good luck with that after most people have DECADES of shooting "normally" (pull fire, release safe). Add to that most people that have AR's have multiples of them, so they would have to mentally keep track of WHICH one they were firing, what "mode" they are in, and WHERE (which position) their trigger is currently in ... ALL at a time when split seconds count, and your life is on the line?? LOL... yea, F that. A MG still operates under the fundamental principle of "release finger to cease fire/firing". It won't take long before someone gets killed because of the "non traditional" firing sequence a binary trigger uses.
Fun... sure. Personally I wouldn't own one (binary)if you paid me. However... a MG on the other hand.. hell yeah! :-)
spot on x 100000000000...there will be accidents and fatalitys
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Old 12-20-2016, 12:54 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoNoGo View Post
I have an AK binary-type trigger that was sold retail (gunshows, shotgun news) back around 1990.
https://www.google.com/patents/US4514923
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Old 12-20-2016, 01:50 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8Ton View Post
A member here spelled out how to make a binary trigger for the AK in a discussion several years ago. In short: two disconectors, One normal semi, and one with a FA tail, cut down to the point that it catches the hammer, but releases it where the front hook can't catch it.
Selector sequence would be: Safe, Double, semi
You would time the semi auto disconnect to be the one that doubles. The FA one would be unmodified in function, when in the middle selector position it would be disabled and the semi one would have control. When put in the semi position, the FA disconnect would function normally, taking control away from the modified semi one.

Would likely take custom made disconnects and a trigger, but if you had something like the "drop in" trigger packs like they use in the AR15 where the mechanism is self contained in it's own box and all the pins do is hold it inside the gun, tuning it to each gun should not be required. Maybe the selector might need fit to it though.
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