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Old 09-27-2007, 12:18 PM   #1
JKH
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Default Romanian PSL scope, wheres the tritium?

Hey guys,

On the PSO-1 (correct nomenclature?) scope for a Romanian PSL, where is the tritium lamp located that illuminates (or did) the reticle? Is it accessible from the small rectangular side plate held on by 4 screws?

I would like to try and replace the lamp on mine but would rather find out from an RKI before randomly disassembling the scope in search of this part.

Thanks

Jeff
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Old 10-12-2007, 07:36 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKH
Hey guys,

On the PSO-1 (correct nomenclature?) scope for a Romanian PSL, where is the tritium lamp located that illuminates (or did) the reticle? Is it accessible from the small rectangular side plate held on by 4 screws?

I would like to try and replace the lamp on mine but would rather find out from an RKI before randomly disassembling the scope in search of this part.

Thanks

Jeff
PSO-1 is the russian scope that is illuminated by battery-powered LED. Roumanian version (LPS-4) was different, it was illuminated by radioactive element and consequently needed no batteries. The shelf life of these elements is 10 years or so IIRC. The tritium element needs to be replaced after that.

If your scope's turrets are marked using cyrillic letters and it's PSO or POSP - it's Russian. If it's marked LPS-4 and turrets are marked using latin in Roumanian - it's Roumanin.
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Old 10-12-2007, 08:00 PM   #3
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Howdy,

It is the Romanian LPS-4

Jeff
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Old 11-03-2007, 12:10 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKH
Howdy,

It is the Romanian LPS-4

Jeff
FWIW I was told that it is illegal to import radium and other radioactive materials into the US, so it is supposedly removed prior to importation. Bummer.
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Old 11-08-2007, 02:03 PM   #5
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http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/sho....php?p=2082425
Tritium vials for sale......
If you feel shy about ordering from overseas maybe you could carefully remove the vial from an AR15 front sight with tritium?
Anyhoo we would really like to know where in the scope is the tritium located????
As I recall, years ago I had a Romanian scope and I took off the square plate on the side to see what lies beneath and there was just a square gasket with nothing else.
The saga continues.......
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Old 11-11-2007, 11:20 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bossman
[
The saga continues.......
I was told that Roumanian scopes are illuminated by Radium, not Tritium. It may seem silly to you, but many old soviet aircraft had instruments which were illuminated by Radium.

After reading this page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radium

And more specifically these passages

"Radium was formerly used in self-luminous paints for watches, nuclear panels, aircraft switches, clocks, and instrument dials. More than 100 former watch dial painters who used their lips to shape the paintbrush died from the radiation."

"During the 1930s it was found that workers exposure to radium by handling luminescent paints caused serious health effects which included sores, anemia and bone cancer. This use of radium was stopped soon afterward. This is because radium is treated as calcium by the body, and deposited in the bones, where radioactivity degrades marrow and can mutate bone cells."

I lost all interest in acquiring Radium in any sort, shape or form.
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Old 11-20-2007, 11:04 PM   #7
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Got my tritium........
I need more data........
The scope/rifle is still on lay-away I cant fiddle with it till I pay it off.
Now I know what a junkie feels like.
I have heard that radium will glow in the presence of tritium.
I will keep my lips off everything.
the saga continues.
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Old 11-27-2007, 01:21 PM   #8
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Hey guys,

I tore my scope apart the other night and could not locate any tritium capsules or provision for them, however I was not able to remove the occular (rear) bell from the main body but the way the retical is placed and etched it has to be illuminated from the front or side of the lens and nothing was there. Does anyone have reference to an LPS scope model NOT having tritium illumination?

Bossman, where did you get your capsules? care to sell one or two?

I think on my scope it would be possible to mount one or two capsule with epoxy in the main body, if I locate these right before the moveable element that contains the retical it should work and not be visible, I might try a few pieces of glow inthe dark material as an experiment.

If I can get the occular bell of I'll let you all know, Imight have to pull the E&W knobs and shafts so as to remove the middle element to know for certain but am golding off donig that for the time being.

Jeff
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Old 12-03-2007, 02:17 PM   #9
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read my earlier post for a source of tritium capsules......^^^^^
$26 for four delivered.They are 1.5x6mm
I removed the rear half of my scope, you can see the reticle, it`s tiny-about the size of a shirt button.I placed a tritium capsule directly on the reticle and no glow-there are more screws that access the reticle itself and I`m assuming from what I saw that I would have to dissasemble the windage and elevation knob mechanisms in order to get to the very edge of the reticle,I believe that if the tritium is placed on or near the edge of the glass reticle the pattern will glow since the reticle is etched glass. I just got my PSL and really did not want to trash the scope before having a chance to shoot it.
I got weak in the knees and put it back together, after Christmas when I can spend a little cash I am going to buy a 8x pso scope, then I will not hesitate to go deeper into the romanian scope.
In order to remove the back half you have to remove three tiny screws that are around the perimeter of the tube,a eyeglass or watchmakers screwdriver is needed,they are tiny.When they are removed the rear half can be twisted off,it is threaded.
Good luck and if you have any success please post your findings.
I will re-visit this project in the near future and will post my results.
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Old 12-03-2007, 02:53 PM   #10
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Damn you JKH, I just couldnt help myself, after writing that I went out and dissasembled my scope further, I`m quite sure I`ve found the tritium element! and it seems that I can replace it......!!!!
I have to be at work in 30 minutes so I gotta go-damn I feel like calling in sick! I`ll be right back on it when I get home!
I`m stoked!
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Old 12-03-2007, 03:05 PM   #11
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Bossman,

My bad, didnt notice your link before!

I couldnt remove the ocular bell (rear) on mine as the screws had been previously buggered. While I had the front (objective bell) off I tryed shining a small pocket LED light in the front along at the outside of the main body tube and it lit the retcle nicely, try removing the front of yours and placing a capsule in front of the reticle carrier with scotch tape and put it back together to see if it lights it in low light, maybe put all the capsules in and try removing one at a time to see what the minimum # to light it would be.

Unless the original tritium capsule is in the reticle block it is not accessible through the front or rear, I am wondering if these were NOT originally illuminated as it would seem that they would have deisgned the scope to replace the tritium without having to completely dismantle the traversing mechanism, etc. essentially tearing the whole scope apart to replace one little part.

I was going to carefully drill the set screws on my ocular bell, then re-tap for new screws, but wont bother now that you have found the tritium isnt located/accessible from there. If it aint broke, yada, yada, yada.

Keep us posted.

Jeff
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Old 12-03-2007, 03:44 PM   #12
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COOL!!!

I hope its in an area easy to reach without making the scope a pile of parts.

I know, evil suggestions and such can get you into trouble ;^ )

Jeff
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Old 12-03-2007, 10:02 PM   #13
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If you have a PSO (Russian) scope the light is just screwed in right here.


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Old 12-03-2007, 10:04 PM   #14
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Whoops, never mind..!

It took me ten posts to take the picture modify and post it, I'm getting a little slow on the draw..!
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Old 12-04-2007, 12:42 AM   #15
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Thanks Winston, actually I checked out the led and incandescant lit russian scopes and surmised that since the bulb on those scopes was located directly below where the reticle was situated in the scope, the romanian tritium illuminated versions probably had the trit capsule located just under the reticle shining into the edge.I was right.
I just walked in the door and I`m heading out to the shop now.
My next post will either be triumph or tragedy.....cross your fingers and stay tuned.
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Old 12-04-2007, 03:06 AM   #16
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POO!
I got the reticle carrier out nicely and dissasembled it, what I thought was the tritium was not.But I did find the tritium and it is HUGE!
Two glass semi circles encompassing the reticle makes the little capsules I have look positively miniscule in comparison.
I removed the semi-circles and replaced them with two capsules glued to the inner rim of the reticle carrier,they were casting thier light directly on the rim of the reticle, re-assembled the scope and no glow-zip nada nothing.
I`m puzzled now. I dont believe that the capsules aren`t strong enough because there wasn`t the faintest glow I stood in complete darkness and waited for quite some time for my eyes to adjust and still not a hint of glow.
The good news is that the scope is really simple, you do not have to monkey with the elevation and windage mechanisms to get the carrier out, and re-aligning everything is easy.
I`m going to fiddle with it for a few more minutes then put it up and go to bed, tommorow is another day.
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Old 12-04-2007, 04:20 AM   #17
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JKH, with the ocular end off look inside and you can see two divots and two slots in the front half of the reticle carrier if you stick a pair of snap ring pliers in there to engage the two divots you can unscrew the cap of the reticle carrier and take it out, it will have the tritium elements in it, the pale yellowish green glass semi circles are the culprits.Where the heck are we going to get something like that????? I would like to see those with full glow!
Maybe my 4 little capsules arent enough? I still think I should see a faint glow but up until now I`ve got nothing.
Tell me more about the LED you put in your scope exactly where was the LED in relation to the reticle when it lit??
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Old 12-04-2007, 09:42 PM   #18
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Alright I give up.
I tried everything and still the reticle will not glow, I tried using all 4 capsules, I tried gluing them directly to the rim of the reticle, I tried them in front, behind, beside, on top, on bottom. I just dont know what it is going to take to get the thing to glow but I`m throwing in the towel. I have re-assembled my scope and it still works perfectly so no loss for the effort.
Here`s some pix for those who want to try their hand at it.

three tiny screws around the perimeter of the body act as lock screws, remove them and the front and rear tubes will twist off. With the back half off you will see three screws holding the reticle carrier to the wind/elev mechanism- remove them and the carrier will fall out the front of the scope (assuming the front tube is removed first).

Here`s the reticle carrier, it is a threaded two piece unit that encloses the etched glass reticle.

Unscrew it and you can see the reticles edge.

The other half once unscrewed the whitish looking semi circles are the tritium elements, they are glass. These must have been impressive when lit! maybe my 4 little tritium vials just arent enough? considering the size of these things it`s still possible I just dont have enough light to do the trick.

Here I`ve removed the monster tritium elements and cleaned things up a bit.

The 4 tritium elements in place of the gargantuan semi circles,they didnt cut the mustard.
If anyone has any idea on how to get this thing to glow again please sound off. I really thought I had it figured out but I was wrong.
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Old 12-05-2007, 12:57 AM   #19
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Does the 1.5x6 mm vials on the above CPF link work on the Yugo M85/90/95? I've been trying to find a replacement for some time now!
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Old 12-05-2007, 08:54 AM   #20
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Bossman,

Thank you for the diligence you have put into this project!

I have never seen tritium modules that large, then again I have not seen many to begin with ;^ ) From what I have researched those 2 lamps must be about 100 curies each, maybe more. I have dissasembled the tritium plug in a British L1A1 SUIT scope and it is a little seed shaped lamp about the size of a sunflower seed which originally provide plenty of glow to the inverted pointer type aiming point (basicall a tapered fiber optic piece).

When I was messing with my scope I used a small pocket LED red light on low power and shined it in from the front of the tube, basically bouncing it off the scope tube wall, it lit the reticle very nicely, sort of the same principal the strap on units that you could put on a standard scope on the occular bell whiched shined in from the rear through the lens and illuminated the cross hairs.

I wonder if some of the tritium lamps used in emergency exit signs would light this? The only drawback is that most likely a whole sign would have to be purchased and canabalized for the lamps (I think they are around $125 to $150 each for the signs). One other thought I had was to place some glow in the dark rubber pieces in the front tube to see if it would work, with the lens cap off they would re-charge during the day, I thought of this after observing one of my bedroom remote controls, the buttons on this thing are still glowing quite visibly even at 3 or 4 in the morning (hmmm, maybe that will be the "donor" for the experiment).

I tryed searching flea-bay for tritium, must be they instituted some new policy as the only things available were factory made such as gun sights and watches, no individual lamps for sale like before, sucks!

Now that Bossman has figured out how to get at these without making a mess of the scope, I am sure a solution will be at hand eventually, anyone out there have access to one of those tritium lit exit signs?

Jeff
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Old 12-05-2007, 12:48 PM   #21
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Nice pics and review.

I have worked in the radiation source business for years - You will have a hard time legally finding a replacement source, Its legally difficult to import tritium, but apparently you can mail order the small quantities from unknowing individuals willing to ship it from un-regulated countries, as many have - its below the regulatory radar screen but the NRC is the reason why you don't see open ampules outside of a instrument or article for sale on ebay or sold in the us as ampules alone.

Not to be a watchdog for regulators (I personally don't think of these as a hazard), but Tritium, even though a low hazard requires importation approval. So you may not find a manufacturer willing to ship direct to you .

Even these surplus scopes, although decayed a bit likley still have enough tritium still in them to warrent NRC licensing for importation. The tritium is there even though there isn't enough of it to stimulate the phospor Again, its low hazard (except some minor tritium creep on the surface of the ampule) and often below regulatory radar.

What is tritum creep? Its difficult for any materials to hold the smallest atom - some of it will slueth through the membrane of the capsule but not much and not much of a hazrd.

That particular tritum lamp source looks like some of the ones made by Saunder's Roe

http://www.betalight.com/index2.htm
I have worked on some prototype military optics with similar sources in a few years back - Saunders Roe was the source of the lamps.

They may ship a lamp to Canada easier than the US if that helps you.

Good luck and thanks for the info, I've been considering finding out where it was located too, but thanks to you, I don't need to tear apart my scope to find out.

Thanks
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Old 12-05-2007, 01:32 PM   #22
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Joey, I was looking at a yugo the other day and I believe they will work, it would be nice if they were a bit shorter like maybe 4mm or 5mm but if they were a bit long I believe you could deepen the hole in the sight bases with a 1.6mm drill.
Cherenkov, thanks for the info, the units displayed on that website look exactly like the ones in the scope.I guess I could E-mail them and ask what would be necessary to purchase a few-it never hurts to ask.
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Old 12-05-2007, 03:37 PM   #23
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BOSSMAN,

A thought, what if you attached the vials directly to the rim of the glass reticle? Then line the piece that carried the original tritium vials with a reflective material such as aluminum foil? That would put the light closer to home and whatever ambient glow comes off the back side of the vials will be redirected towards the reticle
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Old 12-05-2007, 07:15 PM   #24
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i'm probably wrong but i think the tritium goes in that slot on the side of the recticle and the 2 white bits are reflectors to bounce the light back into the center of the reticle.
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Old 12-05-2007, 07:56 PM   #25
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I still dont think that would be enough, JKH it looks like the answer is the semi-circle elements in the link cherenkov provided, the sell units that look EXACTLY like the ones in the scope.

Southernboy, that was my first thought, when disassembling the scope I saw that slot and I was like "EUREKA"!! it looked just like a tritium vial in the bottom of the reticle before I got the carrier dissasembled, once I got in there I found nothing but the slot, I think it`s an indicator during assembly so the reticle gets installed the right way. The white semi circles are without a doubt the tritium elements, look in cherenkovs link for the bare elements, there`s an exact replacement.
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Old 12-05-2007, 08:04 PM   #26
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Bossman,

Its worht a try but most likely you are right, the reticl glass is very thick, perhaps that is part of the issue making it difficult for the emitted light to pass through that much mass. I have a German K98k-ZF41 sniper with an etched reticle in the scope, it is only about 1/16" thick.

Perhaps modifying the scope to accept an LED would be possible, it could be done rather unobtrusively with little modification to the scope, mostly drilling 2 small holes, thoughts?

Are you going to contact that company? The lamps they show are precisely like the ones in the scope, they might possibly install these if you sent them the reticle unit although I imagine the cost would be prohibitive compared to just buying a Russian scope.

Jeff
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Old 12-05-2007, 11:57 PM   #27
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My thought exactly, send the reticle carrier to them and have them glue the trit in place, thereby I`m importing a refurbished reticle carrier and not a tritium element........sounds like I`m getting desperate eh? I was just thinking about installing the led in the scope, no it wouldnt be much of a task but then I`m modifying a military collectible,ruining any future value, no I think I`ll leave the scope alone unless I can get my grubby hands on the right element, I`ll just buy a russian 8x pso for now.
I will contact the company and post any response here.
The saga continues......
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Old 12-06-2007, 12:43 AM   #28
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Here`s a copy of the e-mail I sent...cross your fingers!
"Hello I was referred to your website after an exhaustive search for a particular size tritium illumination element.
I have a romanian made scope which has an illuminated reticle, this reticle was lit by 2 semi circular tritium elements very similar to items described on your website http://www.betalight.com/index_rawlight.htm specifically the "AR" model pictured on the Raw Light Sources page of your website. I would need a size that is 2.0 to 2.7mm WO , 2.0 to 3.0mm HO and an RI of 7.0mm.The scope was manufactured in 1976 and of course the tritium has faded to zero. I am interested in acquiring 2 replacement elements to re-illuminate my scope.
I understand there is some hazard working with this material, if possible I could send the part which holds the element and perhaps you could install the tritium and send the part back? A very simple operation, the elements are simply glued in place with no precision alignment or special tool needed. Attached are pictures of the original elements and the part which houses them.
Thank you,
Scott Fulford xxx-xxx-xxxx"
They have a factory here in the US so maybe the importation hurdle may be a non-issue. Lets hope.
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Old 12-06-2007, 03:39 PM   #29
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Look at page 7 of this PDF file, it shows the exact application.
http://www.betalight.com/datasheets-...hout-power.pdf
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Old 12-09-2007, 01:03 AM   #30
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No reply yet.
I`m leaving monday before dawn on my annual week in the mountains.
I`ll try e-mailing them once more before I head out. Hopefully I`ll get a response.
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Old 12-18-2007, 12:42 AM   #31
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Back from vacation and no response.

DARNIT!

Oh, well someone else see if you can get enough lumens in there to make it work. I`m done for now.
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Old 12-19-2007, 11:49 AM   #32
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I was following this thread and praying that you would get a response in hopes that I'd find a source for my night sights! Come the first of the year I'm going to look a little deeper!
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Old 12-19-2007, 11:54 AM   #33
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Bossman,

I had also wrote and e-mail after that link was first posted, I have not yet received and answer, perhaps they wont involve themselves with "non authorised" individuals? Perhaps I am wrong but being that it is regulated material that may be the reason for the silence. A few years ago I queried Trijicon about re-sourcing a SUIT/TRI-LUX scope, they were very nice and responded quicklety but said that they could not touch it as they had not manufactured it. Conversely, I had a buddy that had them make a custom tritium front sight for his FAL for a very resonable cost.

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Old 02-22-2008, 03:14 AM   #34
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I have a new idea..........
Dont want to post too soon but stay tuned, I still got a dog in this fight.....
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Old 02-22-2008, 08:43 AM   #35
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Hmmmmm intriguing :^ )

Did you try affixing the tritium tubes directly to the edge of the reticle? If you have abandoned these little tubes will you be marketing them?

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