corrosion question

[moonshot]

Here is a question I just thought of, and while I likely spend too much time thinking up questions, this one sounded like a valid one.

Much has been written about the need, or lack thereof, for a chrome-lined barrel. I admit I am still on the fence over this subject. I don't have the financial resources for a top end AK. A WASR or a YUGO is likely all I can get now, and that means high quality YUGO w/o chrome or lower quality WASR with chrome.

Most of the questions I see center around the need for chrome from the standpoint of corrosive ammo and/or barrel life, but the question I just thought of was for the rest of the rifle. Just how corrosion proof is the rest of the AK? If the rifle must be used in the rain, or in a high humidity environment, perhaps near the ocean with its high salt humidity, and circumstances do not allow for daily cleaning?

I am thinking of a situation in which one must be outside, bugging out perhaps, and the rifle is getting soaked from the environment. Not necessarily fired, just wet. Local requirements do not allow for its being taken out from its "cover" and cleaned or lubed for days on end.

How does one protect the AK in this scenario. A chrome barrel does little good if the rest of the rifle corrodes. Are there certain after market finishes suitable for the AK? Are certain new AK's already protected from corrosion? I realize I could send my rifle to ROBAR or BLACK-T or something like that, but the cost now places me in the hig-end AK range, and I can't do that now.

Any comments or advise? Thanks.

moonshot

[sparkysko]

I have always been very worried about corrosion, just because of high humidity. The best that you can do is use a good paint (gunkote/molyresin) over the parkerizing on everything.

I've gone shooting for a few hours at a time when I was standing out in a light rain the entire time. My rifle and everything got soaked, and it didn't seem any worse.

If you're 'bugging out', I don't think the finish of the rifle really matters, and I doubt that you can corrode an AK enough in a week that it won't fire. Aside from the rails, all of the wear areas that are exposed to corrosion are pretty darn thick and hefty chunks of metal.


I suppose the best you could do is apply heavy grease everywhere that is unprotected, and if you applied it in the barrel, wipe it out before use.

Any wear areas on your rifle will not be protected from corrosion from moisture. Your barrel, your trigger group, rails, gas block and piston.

[sparkysko]

Originally Posted by dstorm1911

Sparkysko, I used live in Oregon where it rained constantly I always had wet guns this was long before any fancy coating just oil, I shot corrosive ammo pretty much exclusively especially in my Enfield yet I never had any issues with corrosion As mentioned in another thread I have never gotten rid of any gun and that includes those early milsurps especially, I spent alota time around the ocean along the Oregon coast not a bit of rust just basic firearms maintanence and that was all I ever did that old Jungle Carbine has zero finish left on any exposed surfaces (still like new under the wood though) its been dragged through the mud packin out deer and elk been dropped off rocks and piers into the ocean and its still rust free after 34 years of very hard use..... well just imagin how hard a 10 year old boy left free to explore can be on a rifle... that was my first milsurp bought cause it was cheap and so was the ammo...... didn't matter if I was shooting rabbits or elk the same surplus British ammo...

Nice. Yeah I haven't attributed any rust to the rifle actually being in the rain. Of course if I leave anything outside overnight, even if it isn't raining, it'll rust up the next day. I've only had verifiable surface rust on my Mosin, so maybe it's just the metal used, also it was on the outside near the bolt, I don't wash that area so maybe corrosive salts got on it. On my AK it could have just been debris mixed with oil that looked like rust.

I do have friends here that cleaned and put away their rifles/shotguns and pistols, not to take them out again for god knows how long, and every single one of those guns had massive pitting everywhere. However in the same town, another friend has a pristine shotgun that was put in a padded, nylon cloth gun case, shoved under the bed for 3 years, and not a bit of rust on it anywhere. 6 out of 7 of the guns from other people out here that I've seen are heavily rusted while being stored inside. I don't want mine to be one of those.

However my axes I leave inside and don't oil, and although they might have very light surface rust, in 2 years they haven't gotten any pitting.

[bsn]

A paint finish and lots of oil will help prevent rusting. One of the worse things you can do is leave a rifle in a case after it has gotten damp that is a sure fire recipie for rust. If you haven't shot it wipe it down with a cloth and then wipe it down with a silicon gun cloth. takes less than a minute.

[Ding]

buggin out,well in a crunch
bear fat will work,as with any animal fat rendered down,also makes for a good lamp oil..if ya have access to gun oil,that will work to..

[my-rifle]

I have a lot of respect for DStorm1911, but he and I disagree on the issue of chrome linings. I live just outside of New Orleans, and last weekend I took a couple of my AK74's to the range. I used the $118 per 1080 Century Bulgarian 5.45mm ammo. I put about 30 rounds through my Bulgarian AK74 kit and about 120 rounds through my Tantal. Since I'd used the Bulgarian so little, and since it has a chrome-lined bore I didn't immediately clean it. I did clean the Tantal immediately. Today I looked at them both. The Tantal is gorgeous as always, but then I turned to the '74. The barrel's fine. It's chrome-lined. The inside of the receiver, however is covered in fine rust, as is the gas cylinder. Now it cleans off - that's true, but it isn't good for the gun.

Now here's something else about living where I do. The shit hit the fan here two years ago. I don't have to imagine what it's like. It happened here. Now something else has happened here. A new phenomenon is rising. We call it the "hurricane gun". Most people (men) who own any sort of property have been buying AK's and AR15's in the event of another devastating hurricane. They want a weapon they can use to protect their property, since the police obviously cannot. Most folks I talk to say the same thing. They want a chrome-lined rifle. When a hurricane destroys your city you're going to have better things to do than clean a rifle, and you want one that you can stick out in the rain or under your house, then use when you need it.

Now DStorm1911 I know you're going to disagree with me on this, but the Yugo's wear out faster with normal use than the chrome-lined AK's and suffice it to say that we AK-owners tend to shoot more rounds than the average gun-owner. The Yugo will begin to lose accuracy within about 15,000 rounds. After about 20,000 rounds you will definitely see the difference. Just look down the bore of most Mosin-Nagants or Mausers (all bolt-action which means few rounds fired) and you'll see what the disadvantage is of a non-chrome-lined barrel.

[WolfsburgBob]

Originally Posted by my-rifle

I have a lot of respect for DStorm1911, but he and I disagree on the issue of chrome linings. I live just outside of New Orleans, and last weekend I took a couple of my AK74's to the range. I used the $118 per 1080 Century Bulgarian 5.45mm ammo. I put about 30 rounds through my Bulgarian AK74 kit and about 120 rounds through my Tantal. Since I'd used the Bulgarian so little, and since it has a chrome-lined bore I didn't immediately clean it. I did clean the Tantal immediately. Today I looked at them both. The Tantal is gorgeous as always, but then I turned to the '74. The barrel's fine. It's chrome-lined. The inside of the receiver, however is covered in fine rust, as is the gas cylinder. Now it cleans off - that's true, but it isn't good for the gun.

Now here's something else about living where I do. The shit hit the fan here two years ago. I don't have to imagine what it's like. It happened here. Now something else has happened here. A new phenomenon is rising. We call it the "hurricane gun". Most people (men) who own any sort of property have been buying AK's and AR15's in the event of another devastating hurricane. They want a weapon they can use to protect their property, since the police obviously cannot. Most folks I talk to say the same thing. They want a chrome-lined rifle. When a hurricane destroys your city you're going to have better things to do than clean a rifle, and you want one that you can stick out in the rain or under your house, then use when you need it.

Now DStorm1911 I know you're going to disagree with me on this, but the Yugo's wear out faster with normal use than the chrome-lined AK's and suffice it to say that we AK-owners tend to shoot more rounds than the average gun-owner. The Yugo will begin to lose accuracy within about 15,000 rounds. After about 20,000 rounds you will definitely see the difference. Just look down the bore of most Mosin-Nagants or Mausers (all bolt-action which means few rounds fired) and you'll see what the disadvantage is of a non-chrome-lined barrel.

+1.


May I suggest that ome of this is "Chicken-and-Egg" discussion?

I have an SVD (non-chromed) that has seen more "battle" useage with corrosive ammo since it's birth in 1982, than the next 100 rifles that are trunk queens here in the States. I know where she was born, I have no idea where she has been, but I have a real good idea where she last served. I am guessing she served in a very dry and hot Theatre of War.

She has lived (and still does) on a diet of "corrosive". The rifle is externally beat. The bore shows SOME wear,..but NO pitting.

She shoots like an arrow.

In my opinion, there is no standard as to what will happen with corrosive ammo.
It is all variable, ...and all in the "C"s!

Climate, Care, Chrome, Corrosive, and Common sense.



PS,..Wonder why 99% of Yugo surplus USED rifles are "Sewer Pipes",....?

1) No Chrome
2) Corrosive ammo
3) Crappy Climate
4) NO Care
5) NO Care
6) NO Care
5) and, a ..... oh yeah,...a REAL War. (to busy to clean)

[sparkysko]

Well, the posters question was not about barrels, or chrome lining but everything else.

[WolfsburgBob]

Originally Posted by sparkysko

Well, the posters question was not about barrels, or chrome lining but everything else.

Yeah,..you're right.



Hey Moonshot,...OIL UP THAT PUPPY!

[dstorm1911]

well since it was brought up......... so then how is it that the rest of your AK if not cleaned properly has not rusted to junk particularily the gas block and gas tube? they get direct charge of the same salts as the bore.......

The USED surplus Yugo's also were collected up off the battle fields many still laying under the body of the previous owner it was almost 8 months AFTER the war was over before the Croations actually started collecting up the bodies etc... they were strewn all over the country side in many very isolated locations in a very humid environment many were from arms stashes found after the Serbs were defeated found hidden in basements under foliage etc...

Akron ya remember how bad some of those first imports smelled and how hard it was to get that smell of decayed bodies outa the wood?

AFTER months of not being cleaned and remember most had been used extensivly for launching grenades with blanks which if not cleaned right after just destroys the first 6" of the rifling, they then were simply piled into crates and nailed shut no care etc.. they sat in those crates for 5 years then got cutup and shipped to the states........


ya see Akron there loves to go from forum to forum going on bout the condition of USED Yugo barrels proves his point etc... but somehow he never does qualify his statements with any info regarding the fact of HOW they were used (the reason for grenade launchers was because the use of grenades was Yugoslavias primary means of deffense with such a small army so they used them extensivly) next the Croations made no effort to clean up the enemy weapons they collected from the battle fields and armory etc.. they simply piled em then 5 years later sold em...........

so take your favorite CHROME bored Milled ak (ya can't do this with a standard AKM cause ya will trashe the front trunion rivets and the thinner reciever) order ya up a grenade launcher and run a hundred or so dummy grenades off it (this will create enough heat to trash the chrome at the muzzle BTW) now fire a 1000 rnds of corrosive primed ammo through it with zero cleaning and then lay it in a heavily foliaged area for the next 8 months after than 8 months your already gonna be sick at what has happened to your chrome bore and gas system but it won't be as bad as a non chromed bore, now put it in a wooden crate in a basement for the next 5 years and get back to us with your results, if ya don't have a basement then an attic will do also.........

Now come on that chrome lining means it should come out just like new so no worries..... Right? and since the bore is chrome there is no reason to worry bout gas block, bolt or bolt carrier etc.. which is what the original poster was concerned about but.......

[dstorm1911]

BTW I've got an 1982 M70AB2 with original barrel that still shoots great not lost a bit of accuracy and ohhhhhh yea As of last weekend it has 23,000 rnds through it as a semi auto ontop of whatever was already put through it by the Serbs but ya know its muzzle still gauges EXACTLY the same as it did back when I first built it!

Guess someone forgot to tell that barrel its total life span was only 15,000 or so rnds huh?

[WolfsburgBob]

Originally Posted by dstorm1911

The USED surplus Yugo's also were collected up off the battle fields many still laying under the body of the previous owner it was almost 8 months AFTER the war was over before the Croations actually started collecting up the bodies etc... they were strewn all over the country side in many very isolated locations in a very humid environment many were from arms stashes found after the Serbs were defeated found hidden in basements under foliage etc...

Akron ya remember how bad some of those first imports smelled and how hard it was to get that smell of decayed bodies outa the wood?

AFTER months of not being cleaned and remember most had been used extensivly for launching grenades with blanks which if not cleaned right after just destroys the first 6" of the rifling, they then were simply piled into crates and nailed shut no care etc.. they sat in those crates for 5 years then got cutup and shipped to the states........


ya see Akron there loves to go from forum to forum going on bout the condition of USED Yugo barrels proves his point etc... but somehow he never does qualify his statements with any info regarding the fact of HOW they were used (the reason for grenade launchers was because the use of grenades was Yugoslavias primary means of deffense with such a small army so they used them extensivly) next the Croations made no effort to clean up the enemy weapons they collected from the battle fields and armory etc.. they simply piled em then 5 years later sold em...........

Now take it easy there Stormy,..obviously you ain't read all of my posts on this YUGOSLAVIAN subject. Some posts were from YEARS ago, LONG before we ran into each other on the FAL Files.

The Yugo rifles are my FAVORITE SURPLUS SKSes and AKs,..as they are REAL WAR SURPLUS!

(I just don't like Century's crappy rebarreled-rebuild of an HONEST CLASSIC TRUE SURPLUS RIFLE that has HISTORY!)

As for BLOOD and GUTS still on the Type 66 SKSes and M70 AKs,....yes it was,...and here are just a few shots of what was un-crated.











...and a few NICE non blood and guts splattered Yugo M59 SKSes too!

[my-rifle]

Now that I re-read this thread I think DStorm1911 is right that you should pick the Yugo. The decision was between a Yugo and a WASR. My mistake was the one I always make. I build all my own receivers and assemble them into AKM's. My AKM's are beautiful and work perfectly. Century's WASRs are not and do not. I think I'd recommend against their WASRs in most cases, this being one of them.