BULLET DROP?

HOLESHOT · 06-20-2004, 03:40 AM

I'm shooting WOLF ammo out of my AK-47. I've got a Tasco red dot sight on it and out to 75 yds. it shoots dead on. At 100 yds the red dot covers the area of a 8 inch paper plate. Problem is at 100 yds. I'm putting the red dot on the top of the plate and sometimes two times over the plate, but I'm not HITTING THE PLATE. What is the average drop at 100 yds?

DaWoof · 06-20-2004, 04:34 PM

The drop is "A LOT"!.the 7.62X39 is not designed to shoot out over 100yds. It was developed to put a lot of lead out at distances 75yds or less. You're asking it to do what it's not designed to do....Hope this helps...

__________________________________________________ ___________

"I must hurry, for there they go, and I am their leader!"
GHANDI

16r40 · 06-20-2004, 04:51 PM

ditto on what DaWoof stated.......the AK was meant to hit a man size target, and put a lot of lead out, not get any kind of groupings or pin point accuracy like hitting a plate out at 100 years. there is a reason why on select fire AKs the first notch is full auto. if you put a man size silhouette target at 100 yard and fire at, you will hit it….. but don't except any great groupings.

AKs were designed to be rugged, reliable and simple with loose tolerences, not to be accurate......it's just a trade off they went with.

Grunt · 06-20-2004, 08:54 PM

Well put 16r40.

longhunter · 06-24-2004, 09:46 AM

if your red dot is covering an 8" plate at 100 yds. I can't see how you'd ever get respectable groups. You may want to think about a smaller dot. Many are available that have a 4 MOA dot whoich would only cover 4" at 100 yds.
Below is the trajectory for an average 7.62X39 cartridge.
Granted all will vary but this will give you an idea.

7.62x39 (123 Gr. at 2365)
BC - .292
100 yds +2.9"
200 yds -0.5"
MRT - 3"@110 yds.
MPBR - 225 yds.

There's also an interesting piece over at ar15.com regarding accuracy out of various rifles. Try the link.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=4&f=54&t=56018

Longhunter

ak01q · 06-24-2004, 03:14 PM

The Tasco red dot isn't good enough to do what you are asking of it. As an example, I have a couple Kobra Gen II and a PKAS. The Kobra's are rugged and maintain position on my AK's. Hitting in the black center section is not a problem at 100 yards with 7.62 x 39. Don't expect consistent groups as there will be fliers just because of the nature of the system. Saying that I will shoot about 40 -60 rounds at 100 yards at a target with a black center (approx 4 - 5") and most will be in the black. The remainder will be on the paper within the outer ring. I may have a couple off the paper. The PKAS is for my AK74. it is a 1moa black dot.

MartinS · 06-28-2004, 11:06 PM

The rifle will hit at 300 meters.
How is your scope mounted? Is it working loose?
Put your pie plate on a BIG backing paper to make sure you catch the shots. If you have adjusted to hit about 3/4 of an inch low at 25 yards with your rear sight set at 100 you should be on paper at 100 yards.

MavT · 03-04-2010, 02:51 PM

As for the accuracy of a 7.62x39mm AK-47 i must stronly disagree with you. It is very accurate. I shoot below 2 MOA at up to 400 yards.

The issue with accuracy in the AK is not with the gun but its very short sight radius. YOu can fix this with getting TechSights rear sights, which put the rear sight to the rear of the gun, or with optics.

As far as useing a red dot, red dots are CQC optics, they are designed to be used at 50 yards or less. if you cover up a 8 inch plate at 100 yards, then you have an 8 MOA reticle which will not retain accurcy at long distances.

Etek · 03-04-2010, 03:00 PM

If the Red Dot is mounted high the issue is Parallax.

Fortis · 03-06-2010, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavT

As for the accuracy of a 7.62x39mm AK-47 i must stronly disagree with you. It is very accurate.

Quote:

I shoot below 2 MOA at up to 400 yards.

The issue with accuracy in the AK is not with the gun but its very short sight radius. YOu can fix this with getting TechSights rear sights, which put the rear sight to the rear of the gun, or with optics.

As far as useing a red dot, red dots are CQC optics, they are designed to be used at 50 yards or less. if you cover up a 8 inch plate at 100 yards, then you have an 8 MOA reticle which will not retain accurcy at long distances.

Wow. Considering a PSL won`t even do that it`s pretty amazing. Even a bolt gun would be a feat. Damn, this thread is 6 years old.

allesennogwat · 03-06-2010, 04:11 AM

AK's are just accurate today as they were six years ago.

MavT · 03-06-2010, 09:40 AM

sorry, slight typo, 4 moa at up to 400 yards. 2 moa at 100.

akinnepa · 03-06-2010, 11:48 AM

yep, But isn't wolf 7.62 .308-.309 dia and the Romy barrel a .310-.311 bore?

Kinda like a hot dog down a hallway.

lehigh · 03-06-2010, 04:55 PM

MOA Minute Of Angle
16" group is not nothing to write home about.

Lehigh....

MavT · 03-06-2010, 05:36 PM

i dont shoot animals out of any of my guns

Etek · 03-06-2010, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akinnepa

yep, But isn't wolf 7.62 .308-.309 dia and the Romy barrel a .310-.311 bore?

Kinda like a hot dog down a hallway.

The Wolf stuff I just measured measures .306.
I ASSumed all AK ammo was .310-.311...which makes me an ASS.

Mackaroo · 03-06-2010, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavT

i dont shoot animals out of any of my guns

Huh?...

Mackaroo · 03-06-2010, 10:51 PM

On scopes , red dot or whatever,
On my next type setup I think I may go with this for grins.
Seems to give the option for a longer site system overall.
Tube mount and cover mount seems too sloppy .
I will however mod this to be more stable .
Randall was doing a promo on these a while back and looking for input/ results.
I have to check back and see how that went.

LuzRD · 03-07-2010, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mackaroo

Huh?...

animals=wolf, bears, tigers...

Mackaroo · 03-07-2010, 12:43 AM

Ha!
I stepped right in that one..
( Looks at bottom of boot )

tdbrown1969 · 03-07-2010, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuzRD

animals=wolf, bears, tigers...

OH MY,I am off to see the wizard

ak-shooter762 · 03-22-2010, 07:24 PM

i dont know where these people get an ak cant shoot past 100 yards, i can get about 4inch groups or less every time with my wasr at 100 yards, i got a scope... which helps ALOT i went shooting the other day at 220 yards, just laying down letting the gun rest on the mag, i just really focused hard and my first 3 shots was in a 3 inch group, it was about 4 inchs above the bullseye but still a 3 inch group, that was with brown bear hollow points, not all my groups was that good, i would say at 220 yards i average about 6 inch groups.....my last 5 shots the other day was with BB FMJ and i had a 8 inch 5 shot group. i also set up a 6 inch concrete block and 2 4 inch piece's of block, on my 3rd shot i hit the 6 inch and hit the other 2 with 2 shots....pretty accurate to me.......

oh yeah wolf sucks, for long range, i like tiger and bear....i got some barnaul in the black/red box which seems to do better than any of them but not by much

Ak-sharpshooter · 03-22-2010, 09:47 PM

I agree ak shooter I can get 3' to 6' groups with any one of my ak's at a 100meters with iron sights

rambojohnj15 · 03-29-2011, 08:02 PM

idk about you guys but i have 2 aks and a red dot on one of them thats mounted up front, i shot cheap russian ammo and am accurate at 400 yds

skemler · 04-10-2011, 01:11 PM

Other than a lot of speculation and opinion being thrown around, I don't think anyone has really answered the original question.

Assuming you are using 122gr Wolf ammo and you had a good 75 yard zero, the drop from the line of sight at 100yrds is less than 0.5" (around -0.47"). At 200yrd it becomes more significant, at around -7.75".

I'm guessing that if you are putting the dot on top of the plate or twice over, your rounds are going over the top of the plate, not under it.

There is no reason that an AK can't shoot beyond 100yrd...it won't be as accurate as some other rifles, but it can certainly shoot well beyond 100yrd.

SK

lowprone · 04-20-2011, 09:26 PM

The average 123gr 7.62x39mm FMJ drops about 40" @ 400 yards. 48" or better @ 500 yards.

Get a Aimpoint Comp 2 w/2 minute dot, dial rifle in @ 250 yds and you can shoot and hit a 10" plate from 100-500 yds w/ a little practice assuming you have mastered shooting fundamentals.

marinville · 04-24-2011, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowprone

The average 123gr 7.62x39mm FMJ drops about 40" @ 400 yards. 48" or better @ 500 yards.

Get a Aimpoint Comp 2 w/2 minute dot, dial rifle in @ 250 yds and you can shoot and hit a 10" plate from 100-500 yds w/ a little practice assuming you have mastered shooting fundamentals.

According to the ballistics calculator I use, bullet drop is more like 70'' at 400yards and 120'' at 500yards.

Shepherds_Hook_47 · 04-29-2011, 03:04 AM

Heres an interesting article about a SBR Draco "Scout Rifle"

http://www.redjacketfirearms.com/AKscout_Nov10.pdf

"VMax loads printed
two-inch groups at 100 yards. Wolf Military Classic loads printed three-inch groups."

And thats out of a 12" barrel in 7.62x39....

nice....

WB · 05-03-2011, 11:32 AM

The AK-47 was made to kill a man at 300 meters. The battlesite setting is at 300 meters. When I first got my SA93, I would hit cans at 100 yards, 5 out of 6 times with the iron sites. With a scope, it was 6 out of 6 times (it was almost boring). This was with Russian HP. Shooting results were the same as a 1951 Russin SKS that my friend had. I also had a type 68 Chinesse SKS with a 16 inch barrel, that was a lot less effective. If you have a wore out surplus kit that was slapped together by a bunch of drunken monkeys with a shot out barrel, then you can't expect much. A properly made AK, that is properly broken in, with good ammo, will shoot decently. The AK is not a high powered tack driver, but it will get the job done. And as a bonus, it will shoot underwater, and it will shoot when the temperture is -80F. Not to mention, it will shoot after being run over by 3 trucks, a tank, and the Iranian High School Marching band. 'Nuff said.

gunnerdog · 05-13-2011, 04:02 PM

If zero is at 50yds,what would be point of impact at 100yds?Our range has target stations at 50 and 100yds.

06-20-2004, 03:40 AM	#1
HOLESHOT New Member AKaholic #: 1839 Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: East Texas Posts: 4	BULLET DROP? I'm shooting WOLF ammo out of my AK-47. I've got a Tasco red dot sight on it and out to 75 yds. it shoots dead on. At 100 yds the red dot covers the area of a 8 inch paper plate. Problem is at 100 yds. I'm putting the red dot on the top of the plate and sometimes two times over the plate, but I'm not HITTING THE PLATE. What is the average drop at 100 yds?

06-20-2004, 04:34 PM	#2
DaWoof Member AKaholic #: 1717 Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Washington State Posts: 127	Bullet drop The drop is "A LOT"!.the 7.62X39 is not designed to shoot out over 100yds. It was developed to put a lot of lead out at distances 75yds or less. You're asking it to do what it's not designed to do....Hope this helps... __________________________________________________ ___________ "I must hurry, for there they go, and I am their leader!" GHANDI

06-20-2004, 04:51 PM	#3
16r40 Curio & Relic AKaholic #: 184 Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: sunny cleveland Posts: 3,666	ditto on what DaWoof stated.......the AK was meant to hit a man size target, and put a lot of lead out, not get any kind of groupings or pin point accuracy like hitting a plate out at 100 years. there is a reason why on select fire AKs the first notch is full auto. if you put a man size silhouette target at 100 yard and fire at, you will hit it….. but don't except any great groupings. AKs were designed to be rugged, reliable and simple with loose tolerences, not to be accurate......it's just a trade off they went with. __________________ "I can make this march, and make georgia howl" General William Tecumseh Sherman

06-24-2004, 09:46 AM	#5
longhunter Member AKaholic #: 1329 Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Claysville, PA Posts: 30	if your red dot is covering an 8" plate at 100 yds. I can't see how you'd ever get respectable groups. You may want to think about a smaller dot. Many are available that have a 4 MOA dot whoich would only cover 4" at 100 yds. Below is the trajectory for an average 7.62X39 cartridge. Granted all will vary but this will give you an idea. 7.62x39 (123 Gr. at 2365) BC - .292 100 yds +2.9" 200 yds -0.5" MRT - 3"@110 yds. MPBR - 225 yds. There's also an interesting piece over at ar15.com regarding accuracy out of various rifles. Try the link. http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=4&f=54&t=56018 Longhunter Last edited by longhunter; 06-24-2004 at 11:15 AM.

06-24-2004, 03:14 PM	#6
ak01q Member AKaholic #: 1317 Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Michigan Posts: 27	The Tasco red dot isn't good enough to do what you are asking of it. As an example, I have a couple Kobra Gen II and a PKAS. The Kobra's are rugged and maintain position on my AK's. Hitting in the black center section is not a problem at 100 yards with 7.62 x 39. Don't expect consistent groups as there will be fliers just because of the nature of the system. Saying that I will shoot about 40 -60 rounds at 100 yards at a target with a black center (approx 4 - 5") and most will be in the black. The remainder will be on the paper within the outer ring. I may have a couple off the paper. The PKAS is for my AK74. it is a 1moa black dot. __________________ "Shoot 'em full of holes and fill 'em full of lead".

06-20-2004, 08:54 PM	#4
Grunt Member AKaholic #: 1968 Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: TX Posts: 64	Well put 16r40.

06-28-2004, 11:06 PM	#7
MartinS Member AKaholic #: 789 Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 55	The rifle will hit at 300 meters. How is your scope mounted? Is it working loose? Put your pie plate on a BIG backing paper to make sure you catch the shots. If you have adjusted to hit about 3/4 of an inch low at 25 yards with your rear sight set at 100 you should be on paper at 100 yards.

03-04-2010, 02:51 PM	#8
MavT New Member AKaholic #: 76478 Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Hattiesburg MS Posts: 6	As for the accuracy of a 7.62x39mm AK-47 i must stronly disagree with you. It is very accurate. I shoot below 2 MOA at up to 400 yards. The issue with accuracy in the AK is not with the gun but its very short sight radius. YOu can fix this with getting TechSights rear sights, which put the rear sight to the rear of the gun, or with optics. As far as useing a red dot, red dots are CQC optics, they are designed to be used at 50 yards or less. if you cover up a 8 inch plate at 100 yards, then you have an 8 MOA reticle which will not retain accurcy at long distances.

03-04-2010, 03:00 PM	#9
Etek Curio & Relic Contributor AKaholic #: 2223 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Classified Posts: 4,863	If the Red Dot is mounted high the issue is Parallax. __________________ "Far better it is to dare mighty things, than to rank with those poor spirits who knows neither victory nor defeat." Teddy Roosevelt "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system but too early to shoot the bastards. " -C. Wolfe

03-06-2010, 04:11 AM	#11
allesennogwat Curio & Relic AKaholic #: 3738 Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 32,468	AK's are just accurate today as they were six years ago. __________________ Daraclor: A brand of anti-malaria pills which we had to drink every week while on the border. Legend had it that these would make you turn yellow and that you wouldn't be able to tan.

03-06-2010, 09:40 AM	#12
MavT New Member AKaholic #: 76478 Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Hattiesburg MS Posts: 6	sorry, slight typo, 4 moa at up to 400 yards. 2 moa at 100.

03-06-2010, 11:48 AM	#13
akinnepa Tastes Like Bacon AKaholic #: 41923 Join Date: May 2009 Location: Hell's Waiting Room Posts: 1,446	yep, But isn't wolf 7.62 .308-.309 dia and the Romy barrel a .310-.311 bore? Kinda like a hot dog down a hallway. Last edited by akinnepa; 03-06-2010 at 04:59 PM.

03-06-2010, 04:55 PM	#14
lehigh Member AKaholic #: 11289 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: PA Posts: 333	MOA Minute Of Angle 16" group is not nothing to write home about. Lehigh.... __________________ Throw the cow over the fence some hay. Der erscht scuss wu mer aus re neire flint schist macht nix dod.

03-06-2010, 05:36 PM	#15
MavT New Member AKaholic #: 76478 Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Hattiesburg MS Posts: 6	i dont shoot animals out of any of my guns

03-06-2010, 10:51 PM	#18
Mackaroo Senior Moment AKaholic #: 33093 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Midwest USA Posts: 887	On scopes , red dot or whatever, On my next type setup I think I may go with this for grins. Seems to give the option for a longer site system overall. Tube mount and cover mount seems too sloppy . I will however mod this to be more stable . Randall was doing a promo on these a while back and looking for input/ results. I have to check back and see how that went. __________________ "Grindaderas," salty Mex slang that roughly translates as "things Americans do."

03-07-2010, 12:43 AM	#20
Mackaroo Senior Moment AKaholic #: 33093 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Midwest USA Posts: 887	Ha! I stepped right in that one.. ( Looks at bottom of boot ) __________________ "Grindaderas," salty Mex slang that roughly translates as "things Americans do."

03-22-2010, 07:24 PM	#22
ak-shooter762 Member AKaholic #: 58371 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: USA,NC Posts: 51	i dont know where these people get an ak cant shoot past 100 yards, i can get about 4inch groups or less every time with my wasr at 100 yards, i got a scope... which helps ALOT i went shooting the other day at 220 yards, just laying down letting the gun rest on the mag, i just really focused hard and my first 3 shots was in a 3 inch group, it was about 4 inchs above the bullseye but still a 3 inch group, that was with brown bear hollow points, not all my groups was that good, i would say at 220 yards i average about 6 inch groups.....my last 5 shots the other day was with BB FMJ and i had a 8 inch 5 shot group. i also set up a 6 inch concrete block and 2 4 inch piece's of block, on my 3rd shot i hit the 6 inch and hit the other 2 with 2 shots....pretty accurate to me....... oh yeah wolf sucks, for long range, i like tiger and bear....i got some barnaul in the black/red box which seems to do better than any of them but not by much

03-22-2010, 09:47 PM	#23
Ak-sharpshooter Veteran Member Contributor AKaholic #: 11436 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: morganton GA. Posts: 1,278	ak accuracy I agree ak shooter I can get 3' to 6' groups with any one of my ak's at a 100meters with iron sights __________________ Shoot, Get Shot or Get the f#%k out of the way!!! I have a dream that, in the future, my children will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the amount of AKs their father has on the wall. -Jakesgunreviews

03-29-2011, 08:02 PM	#24
rambojohnj15 New Member AKaholic #: 156752 Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: hanover/pa Posts: 5	bullet drop idk about you guys but i have 2 aks and a red dot on one of them thats mounted up front, i shot cheap russian ammo and am accurate at 400 yds

04-10-2011, 01:11 PM	#25
skemler Member AKaholic #: 3228 Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 117	Other than a lot of speculation and opinion being thrown around, I don't think anyone has really answered the original question. Assuming you are using 122gr Wolf ammo and you had a good 75 yard zero, the drop from the line of sight at 100yrds is less than 0.5" (around -0.47"). At 200yrd it becomes more significant, at around -7.75". I'm guessing that if you are putting the dot on top of the plate or twice over, your rounds are going over the top of the plate, not under it. There is no reason that an AK can't shoot beyond 100yrd...it won't be as accurate as some other rifles, but it can certainly shoot well beyond 100yrd. SK

04-20-2011, 09:26 PM	#26
lowprone Senior Member AKaholic #: 3254 Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 804	Bullet Drop The average 123gr 7.62x39mm FMJ drops about 40" @ 400 yards. 48" or better @ 500 yards. Get a Aimpoint Comp 2 w/2 minute dot, dial rifle in @ 250 yds and you can shoot and hit a 10" plate from 100-500 yds w/ a little practice assuming you have mastered shooting fundamentals.

04-29-2011, 03:04 AM	#28
Shepherds_Hook_47 Member AKaholic #: 156605 Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: earth Posts: 189	Heres an interesting article about a SBR Draco "Scout Rifle" http://www.redjacketfirearms.com/AKscout_Nov10.pdf "VMax loads printed two-inch groups at 100 yards. Wolf Military Classic loads printed three-inch groups." And thats out of a 12" barrel in 7.62x39.... nice.... __________________ Shepherds_Hook_47 You might want to check these articles out! READ: Beginners guide to the AK-47 & AK-74 Weapon Systems Platform READ: Thugs find it more difficult if populace is armed

05-03-2011, 11:32 AM	#29
WB Member AKaholic #: 88968 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Rainsville, Al. U.S.A. Posts: 270	The AK-47 was made to kill a man at 300 meters. The battlesite setting is at 300 meters. When I first got my SA93, I would hit cans at 100 yards, 5 out of 6 times with the iron sites. With a scope, it was 6 out of 6 times (it was almost boring). This was with Russian HP. Shooting results were the same as a 1951 Russin SKS that my friend had. I also had a type 68 Chinesse SKS with a 16 inch barrel, that was a lot less effective. If you have a wore out surplus kit that was slapped together by a bunch of drunken monkeys with a shot out barrel, then you can't expect much. A properly made AK, that is properly broken in, with good ammo, will shoot decently. The AK is not a high powered tack driver, but it will get the job done. And as a bonus, it will shoot underwater, and it will shoot when the temperture is -80F. Not to mention, it will shoot after being run over by 3 trucks, a tank, and the Iranian High School Marching band. 'Nuff said.

05-13-2011, 04:02 PM	#30
gunnerdog Veteran Member AKaholic #: 155365 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: sebastian fl Posts: 1,339	If zero is at 50yds,what would be point of impact at 100yds?Our range has target stations at 50 and 100yds.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)