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Old 05-15-2015, 03:28 AM   #1
RadScorpius
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Default Looks like all AKs bolt carrier will mushroom

I just went shooting with two friends today. One just got a WASR, one just got a NPAP, 300 rounds tho the WASR, 500 rounds for the NPAP.

WASR:



NPAP:
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Old 05-15-2015, 04:08 AM   #2
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Right and they both had tapcos right?
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Old 05-15-2015, 04:10 AM   #3
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Yep. Me and my friends think that the corner on the Tapco puts pressure at the tip of the tang of the bolt carrier, if it is filed or rounded off it may solve the problem.
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Old 05-15-2015, 04:34 AM   #4
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I thought this was just normal wear ?
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Old 05-15-2015, 05:14 AM   #5
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Well they are "were" ugly and had all kind of Internet fudge created about it. Run, run from a WASR. That was 2005 I think for me. That WASR ran fine and the next three ran great all NIB.

The TAPCO hammer had never taken any heat I knew of over mushrooming anything. Only one rifle I used original hammer in. The SAIGA .223, and that was only after conclusive evidence of the rear of the bolt stem preening pretty bad from non contoured or non original hammer. The YUGOs of late very well may suffer from improper heat treating. They do suffer from holes being spaced incorrectly or not in prime position.

My 92 carrier tail has been absolutely form fitted and mushroomed noticeably. Otoh I have a M77 PN that has zero peening after running 300 rounds of the regular mil surp 7.62 NATO.
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Old 05-15-2015, 05:36 AM   #6
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Old 05-15-2015, 06:09 AM   #7
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I had a typical sub $500 cheapo PAP pistol (which was my first AK pattern, ignorantly) that did that after sending around 400 downrange in a 'day'. I would love nothing more than to dispel the myth, but it can be very dangerous, so please be cautious. I was using the run of the mill Wolf outdoors, and I was hoping to hear that perhaps a better, more up to par cartridge may have optimized the cycling, but it seems to be a universally common occurrence.
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Old 05-15-2015, 06:16 AM   #8
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Oh, if you are new to the forums and the AK format, OP's title is very incorrect, because this will not happen to all AKs. In any case, you should learn your rifle inside and out and be weary of which parts wear on each other and how they interact. Be Safe, be smart and ultimately, have fun with the various bastard sons of Papa Kalashnikov!
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Old 05-15-2015, 10:09 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RadScorpius View Post
I just went shooting with two friends today. One just got a WASR, one just got a NPAP, 300 rounds tho the WASR, 500 rounds for the NPAP.

WASR:



NPAP:
I apologize to ask and I don't mean any disrespect at all but why is everyone so worried about this? All of my ak's do this, all my Saiga's anyway. Now, I know if it does it too bad and I mean really bad, It COULD allow the rifle to detonate out of battery if the hammer follows home while shooting really really fast or bump firing and the firing pin hits the primer before the bolt locks completely into battery. One of my Saigas in 7.62x39 has been used by many people and has A LOT of rounds through it and that little nub has peened down quite a bit, enough to the point where you can tell if you ride the hammer home by hand, by the time it touchs the bolt, the bolt still is locking into battery a bit, I can still slide fire the fucker and it has not blowin' out a case yet. This is not the rifle that was splitting case necks either. Everyone that is curious about the mushrooming should sleep well knowing that its gonna take like a quarter inch of mushrooming to be of any worry.
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Old 05-15-2015, 10:16 AM   #10
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I apologize to ask and I don't mean any disrespect at all but why is everyone so worried about this? All of my ak's do this, all my Saiga's anyway. Now, I know if it does it too bad and I mean really bad, It COULD allow the rifle to detonate out of battery if the hammer follows home while shooting really really fast or bump firing and the firing pin hits the primer before the bolt locks completely into battery. One of my Saigas in 7.62x39 has been used by many people and has A LOT of rounds through it and that little nub has peened down quite a bit, enough to the point where you can tell if you ride the hammer home by hand, by the time it touchs the bolt, the bolt still is locking into battery a bit, I can still slide fire the fucker and it has not blowin' out a case yet. This is not the rifle that was splitting case necks either. Everyone that is curious about the mushrooming should sleep well knowing that its gonna take like a quarter inch of mushrooming to be of any worry.
But not all AK's do this and if there's a prevention it needs to be known. One guy on here showed me a picture of his with 13,000 rnds and it ain't mushroomed.

Someone above asked about the Tapco hammer. I 2nd that. The G2 hammer facing seems to be the common factor in most all carrier mushrooming incidents I've seen. Most of the G2's I've seen look like they have a camel hump where other hammers are smooth.
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Old 05-15-2015, 10:18 AM   #11
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Polished / lightly sanded hammer on my G2, about 5,000 rounds on it, no mushrooming on my bolt carrier........winninggggggggggggg
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Old 05-15-2015, 10:20 AM   #12
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All my guns have TAPCO hammers. Not one carrier has ever "mushroomed" on me....but I do the file and sanding of the hammer before they are ever shot.

The original hammer is more flat and the TAPCO has a hump. The TAPCO hump on the hammer always keeps the hammer in contact with the carrier. This is why you do not get "trigger slap" with the TAPCO. The TAPCO has 3 angles on the hammer profile. The back angle nearest the rear trunnion leaves a sharp edge if you will, and the carrier nub makes contact with this edge when it pushes back on the hammer. This is IMO what causes the "mushroom" effect on the carrier.

The angle on the un modified TAPCO hammer and the angle on the carrier nub are different. But after enough rounds are shot the two angles will self correct over time/rounds fired.

Re-profiling the TAPCO hammer will cause this to not happen, and if it does, it will not be much. Re-profiling the hammer will also keep the carrier from "sticking" in the back position when charging it like a little girly man.

But I do think the Yugo's suffer from soft steel parts, and or not heat treated properly.
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Old 05-15-2015, 10:42 AM   #13
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Problem is caused by the g2 hammer. It's not just the sharp ridge that pushes up on the bolt carrier, it is profiled wrong. Can be unsafe. The tail is only remaining safety to prevent a out of battery detonation, and the wrong profile of the g2 gives a much higher potential for disaster. Compare the profile of a factory full auto hammer for the way the parts are supposed to work with each other.
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Old 05-15-2015, 10:50 AM   #14
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Hopefully the AKG triggers are profiled correctly.........I cant wait to get that lil lightning bow mofo in mine.....when the hell are they going to start shipping!!
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Old 05-15-2015, 10:52 AM   #15
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The original hammer is more flat and the TAPCO has a hump. The TAPCO hump on the hammer always keeps the hammer in contact with the carrier. This is why you do not get "trigger slap" with the TAPCO..
Trigger slap is caused by the disconnector.
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Old 05-15-2015, 11:13 AM   #16
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Quote:
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Trigger slap is caused by the disconnector.
Yes you are correct. The TAPCO hump stays in contact with the carrier and it rides all the way back and forward causing the hammer to more softly/slower make contact with the disconnector. With the original hammer being straight/flat, the carrier will slap the hammer down and then it will fling back up into the disconnector, because the hammer is flat and will not keep contact while the carrier moves forward.

Lets see if I can make this easier to understand.

The carrier moves back and forward really fast. With the TAPCO hammer, the hump is just enough so that it keeps contact with the carrier as it moves back and forward again. Allowing it to stop on the disconnector more softly.

The original hammer being flat, The carrier will be moving forward and out of the way as the hammer moves back up. It will stop when it hits the disconnector...trigger slap.
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Old 05-15-2015, 11:16 AM   #17
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i don't see any of that on my MAK. It was used when i got it and i've put several k rounds through it. You'd figure with that inferior steel they use, it would be a big problem.
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Old 05-15-2015, 11:20 AM   #18
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The TAPCO hammer actually does slap up, but the hump hits the carrier and slows it down before it makes contact with the disconnector. The original has a void basically where the flat is and the carrier has moved out of range and will not slow the hammer down before the disconnector stops it.
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Old 05-15-2015, 04:56 PM   #19
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No. Slap is from the tail on the disconnector. Will happen with any hammer. G2 hammer fouls the bolt carrier because of its improper shape. Two different issues.
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Old 05-15-2015, 06:08 PM   #20
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The only "tail" on a disconnector are on full auto seers. The G2 does not have a "tail" and if it did, the tail does not come into contact with any thing other than the selector if and when the full auto mode is engaged.

I don't know, I could be wrong. But it seems weird for the hammer that never comes into contact with the "tail" on the full auto seer to cause trigger slap.

Okay, just went out and looked at some of my original triggers......and they do show signs of being hit by the underside of the disconnector.... I have seen videos of the AK being fired in slo mo and could see some bouncing around and thought to myself that this was what caused the trigger slap. I was wrong and tweek is right.

I learned something today, thank you tweek.

Last edited by Mel64D; 05-15-2015 at 06:25 PM. Reason: I was wrong.
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Old 05-15-2015, 07:32 PM   #21
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Polished / lightly sanded hammer on my G2, about 5,000 rounds on it, no mushrooming on my bolt carrier........winninggggggggggggg
not winninggggggg.....I lied.......just checked and my shit is "mushroomed".....oh well, i wont lose any sleep over it, it works just fine

what can you say about?
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Old 05-15-2015, 07:50 PM   #22
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Quote:
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i don't see any of that on my MAK. It was used when i got it and i've put several k rounds through it. You'd figure with that inferior steel they use, it would be a big problem.
Thats because MAK does not have Tapco trigger.
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Old 05-15-2015, 07:51 PM   #23
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That's it!

I'm selling all my AK variants!

Slingshots anyone?
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Old 05-15-2015, 07:58 PM   #24
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That's it!

I'm selling all my AK variants!

Slingshots anyone?
Im thinking blow dart gun
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Old 05-15-2015, 08:05 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RadScorpius View Post
Yep. Me and my friends think that the corner on the Tapco puts pressure at the tip of the tang of the bolt carrier, if it is filed or rounded off it may solve the problem.
This ^

Before & After smoothing G2 Hammer Hump -

http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showpo...97&postcount=5


 photo IMAG0480_zpsqdoxtwhg.jpg





http://chrisaukamp.com/
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Old 05-15-2015, 08:11 PM   #26
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Run it... it will work harden. I dont worry about those things..
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Old 05-15-2015, 08:23 PM   #27
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So tapco triggers mushroom AK Bolt carriers and ignoring this will cause an out of battery?
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Old 05-15-2015, 08:32 PM   #28
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If the tapco g2 is the problem then what would be a good alternative?

If any one has any well used parts kits can you look at the bolt carriers to see if the original hammers did this also? Just curious.
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Old 05-15-2015, 11:06 PM   #29
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So tapco triggers mushroom AK Bolt carriers and ignoring this will cause an out of battery?
No, I mean that if you notice the tail of the carrier being smashed to shit then you could have an out of battery. Just a small bur will not hurt it.

The pic above with the tail of the carrier resting against the stock G2 hammer is a good example of one that should be fine.

Notice how close the hammer is with the tail of the carrier and the back of the bolt. If for some reason the hammer is released early, the tail keeps the hammer from striking the firing pin sticking out of the bolt. The carrier will still move forward after the bolt has locked into battery, moving the tail out of the way for the hammer to strike the firing pin. All of this happens in a fraction of a second. So to much material removed from the hammer, or carrier tail smashed in to much could possibly cause an out of battery detonation.

I don't know...ask tweek...I was wrong before.

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Old 05-15-2015, 11:07 PM   #30
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Quote:
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Yeah, my trigger is like 2 lbs now... no lie.
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Old 05-17-2015, 09:21 PM   #31
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What a bummer. After seeing this thread I just went and checked all my rifles. Those with G2's had the mushrooming whereas those with original equipment had none. Guess I'll need to do some re-profiling. And no more G2's.
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Old 05-18-2015, 12:54 AM   #32
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Can we do this? Can those of you that have mushrooming on the carrier tails post your AK model?
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Old 05-18-2015, 01:21 AM   #33
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ummmmm it has been known for some time the tapco G2 is a harder steal then regular FCG just saying,,,,
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Old 05-18-2015, 01:35 AM   #34
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I wonder if they had been bump fired at all. I've got AK's from new to over 25 years old and have never seen this on any. It would be good to get some specific details to understand better though...
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Old 02-04-2016, 05:37 PM   #35
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I noticed that the tapco hammer bounces off the bolt when you pull the trigger and the original hammer doesn't do that (at least not enough to see it happen). The impact mark on my carrier tail lines up with the hammer when the hammer is about 1/4" away from the bolt tail so I think the carrier is getting an extra 1/4" running start when it hits the hammer face... which isn't helping prevent this.
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