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Old 06-14-2014, 10:10 AM   #1
frameman
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Default M72B1 scope rail?

Has anyone installed a scope on one of the Stamped M72B1 kits from Apex?
Since I will be building this as a semi-auto I am looking at putting a scope on it.
Any solid leads for a rail and what design is best.
I have heard that one for an AK74 will work but I'm unsure
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Old 06-14-2014, 11:00 AM   #2
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The second edition of the Grim Reaper has a picture of a M72 with a rail. The only pic I've ever seen of one. It reminded me of the rail used on Romy PSLs.
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Old 06-14-2014, 11:23 AM   #3
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The Zastava rails were never available in the USA for the M70 & M72 etc.
You can adapt a few of the AKM type rails or perhaps a PSL. I modified a M76 rail for a M70B1 receiver which is the same as the M72B1.

Some info here in post 4 as well as other reading.

http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showth...light=m76+rail
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Old 06-14-2014, 11:29 AM   #4
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The original rails were meant for night scopes.
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Old 06-14-2014, 01:18 PM   #5
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They made some M72 underfolders w/special raised rails (M72 AB1N), I'd love to find some of those rails.
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Old 06-14-2014, 08:15 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreek! View Post
They made some M72 underfolders w/special raised rails (M72 AB1N), I'd love to find some of those rails.
They used the same rail on the fixed stock. M77 rail, it's what came in on the Mitchells. This is the newer style of course. I have never seen a real deal photo of the early ones, just sketches from the manual. Both styles would be "correct". I have no idea what year they switched, but it had to be extremely early since we have never seen kits come over with them. (photo from the Partner Serbia show in Belgrade)



P.A. Distributing made replicas for some years. Keep your eye out and you may get ahold of one.


Last edited by Kittrell; 06-14-2014 at 08:21 PM.
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Old 06-14-2014, 08:31 PM   #7
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There is this rail as well>>

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/3652/p2100476.jpg

I have a Zastava M89 rail which will work for a underfolder as well but I doubt I will use it on a M72AB1 as it is not original type AFAIK.

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...ope-rail-types
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Old 06-14-2014, 08:37 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AKBLUE View Post
Yeah, the early style. Try as I may I have yet to see that rail on a rifle. Without the manual I would not even know it existed.
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Old 06-14-2014, 08:52 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AKBLUE View Post
How does that work with the stock folded? It looks like it would be in the way (the pic below is an M72 built on an M70 receiver):




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Old 06-14-2014, 08:59 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreek! View Post
How does that work with the stock folded? It looks like it would be in the way.
I am not sure why they show that one on the UF either, maybe just for illustrative purposes. Here is is AB1N rail.



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Old 06-14-2014, 09:11 PM   #11
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I think the underfolder would clear the lower tabs and might clear the rail.
Though not shown in the pic a possibility ., is like the Polish used., an offset left side stock strut to clear the scope rail. Dunno on Zastava rifles.
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Old 06-16-2014, 12:23 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kittrell View Post
They used the same rail on the fixed stock. M77 rail, it's what came in on the Mitchells. This is the newer style of course. I have never seen a real deal photo of the early ones, just sketches from the manual. Both styles would be "correct". I have no idea what year they switched, but it had to be extremely early since we have never seen kits come over with them. (photo from the Partner Serbia show in Belgrade)



P.A. Distributing made replicas for some years. Keep your eye out and you may get ahold of one.

Looks like this one is on the PA website. That's the M77 type? Does it accept scope mounts universally? Would a PK-A fit it?

I'm debating installing a rail on my pap M92 that will become a carbine, and add an under folding stock.

I understand that the Romanian wasr type rails won't clear the stock when folded, and that the basic M70AB2 rail was the M89 for the ZRAK M89 scope (?).

I'm looking at a low end commie red dot that side mounts.
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Old 06-16-2014, 03:25 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad-Element View Post
Looks like this one is on the PA website. That's the M77 type? Does it accept scope mounts universally? Would a PK-A fit it?
No, the M77 is unique. There are only two factory mounts out there that fit. The ones that came in with preban Mitchells and a more modern mount that I believe was produced by ZRAK. Neither are easy to come by, the Mitchell usually brings $500+ when it pops up. As with everything on P.A.'s website there is virtually no stock. He has been talking about bringing in more for the past decade and never has.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad-Element View Post
...and that the basic M70AB2 rail was the M89 for the ZRAK M89 scope (?).
This is unsubstantiated. Common sense dictates that the M89 was produced for use with the M70, however we have never seen one fielded on a Yugo rifle.
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Old 06-16-2014, 08:21 AM   #14
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Hm, what is the rail on the PAP M77 then it's different I assume because I see lots of scopes /mount combos on it.
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Old 06-16-2014, 10:11 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad-Element View Post
Hm, what is the rail on the PAP M77 then it's different I assume because I see lots of scopes /mount combos on it.
It's a newer design to fit more types of scopes. Yugoslavia only made a limited number of scopes for the older rail. For the newer rail Serbia makes a mount with a Picatinny rail.
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Old 06-16-2014, 04:56 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad-Element View Post
Hm, what is the rail on the PAP M77 then.
M21 accessory rail, very different. Meant for this mount that never made it stateside.

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Old 06-16-2014, 05:24 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kittrell View Post
M21 accessory rail, very different. Meant for this mount that never made it stateside.

The early M21's have the old style tall rail. This is the newer style rail. There's just not a lot that works right on the old style rail. Night scopes and M89 scopes are about all that were made for it. The newer rail has more options.
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Old 06-16-2014, 08:58 PM   #18
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This is the one pictured on PA Distributing

http://www.p-a-distributing.com/parts.html

Any idea how to get new PAP Serbian rails?


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Old 06-16-2014, 09:10 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad-Element View Post
This is the one pictured on PA Distributing
That's an M89 rail, again, they do not have any stock.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad-Element View Post
Any idea how to get new PAP Serbian rails?
You cannot buy an M21 accessory rail separate from a rifle. Some people have seen fit to remove them for better options. So they show up in the MP from time to time. Terrible rail though, I would never voluntarily install one on a rifle.
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Old 06-16-2014, 10:21 PM   #20
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Could you just put an AKM pattern one on?
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Old 06-16-2014, 11:44 PM   #21
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yes
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Old 06-17-2014, 02:32 AM   #22
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On an underfolder...without getting in the way of the stock?

???
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Old 06-17-2014, 10:43 AM   #23
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[IMG]Bulgarya Arsenal AR-SF underfolder with POSP PK-AV red dot and fake suppressor.[/IMG]
Too bad I can't see the other side
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Old 06-17-2014, 11:56 AM   #24
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It is possible to mod or add various rails to any AK., milled, stamped 1mm or bulged 1.5mm etc. Just a matter if mocking it up and trimming away areas of interference etc. The universal Chinese type rails will fit about any AK type.
Of course one sacrifices originality if that is a concern at all., and the ability to fold the stock. Unless a reverse mount and locking screw is used etc.

Last edited by AKBLUE; 06-17-2014 at 12:33 PM.
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Old 06-17-2014, 12:19 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad-Element View Post
On an underfolder...without getting in the way of the stock?

???
If that is your concern, get a top cover rail.
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Old 06-17-2014, 03:20 PM   #26
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Thanks. I appreciate the replies. I thought about welding a riser plate to a Romy rail and lift it up above the folded stock. Though I'd rather have a yugo rail of some kind on the pap M92

I may just go with the stormwerkz rail as I like the weaver PK-A.

I've just been trying to figure out all I can.

M76 rail can accept universal mount PK-A's right? It will just be high?
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Last edited by Bad-Element; 10-13-2014 at 03:55 AM. Reason: Grammar
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Old 06-18-2014, 02:06 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AK_AOK View Post
...that was selected by Mitchell so they have a proprietary advantage on selling mounted optics.
Mitchell did not select it for that purpose. The M77 rail was the standard export optics rail used by Zastava, same as the M76 grip. Here is a LKP 96 (Italian Import).



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Old 06-18-2014, 02:15 AM   #28
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Well, there's a difference of opinion on that but it's not important at this point.

In a related not, there may be a PAD M89 rail on the market in the future.
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Old 06-18-2014, 11:49 AM   #29
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An underfolder was not designed as a feature to allow optics mounting. As such it has not been very well adapted to a rail system that works well for optics install on the rail, cheekweld or stock folding.
The newer side folding stocks were adaptable for optics and stock folding with optic in place in some cases.
The M89 rail is not real practical for cheekweld. I have the rail but never installed it for that reason.
A fixed stock or sidefolder with a conventional rail is much more suited for optics mounting.

The topside dogleg rail systems also solve the funderfolder issue.
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Old 06-18-2014, 01:46 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kittrell View Post


I wonder how the rail attached to the receiver. I don't see any rivets.
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Old 06-18-2014, 05:55 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ott1 View Post
I wonder how the rail attached to the receiver. I don't see any rivets.
Four rivets, ground flush, hot blued.
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Old 06-18-2014, 06:57 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kittrell View Post
Mitchell did not select it for that purpose. The M77 rail was the standard export optics rail used by Zastava, same as the M76 grip. Here is a LKP 96 (Italian Import).
Correct, Mitchell did not select that rail it was the standard rail used by Zastava at the time. The mount Mitchell imported to be sold with their rifles differs from a ZRAK M77 mount which is the correct mount for the M77 rail.

OP AKBLUE is probably the best guy to help you use an "other than factory rail" on your M72. One thing you need to remember is that both the M70/M72 use a sling swivel mounted at the back of the receiver. Make sure you position the rail so that once the sling swivel/sling is mounted you can still get a scope on the rail. I know someone that built a standard M70 kit and didn't think about this and used a standard 74 rail. Once mounted with the sling he couldn't get a scope on the rail. I have both rifles factory built with the factory installed high rail and it is still tight getting the scope to clear the sling swivel to mount it. I have never seen that early rail pictured in the books mounted on a rifle. I have seen the M77 tall rail mounted on both export models as well as Yugo Mil issue rifles.

As stated earlier I too have never seen the M89 scope or rail ever used on a factory built M70/M72 rifle.
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Old 06-18-2014, 07:17 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad-Element View Post
This is the one pictured on PA Distributing

http://www.p-a-distributing.com/parts.html

Any idea how to get new PAP Serbian rails?


You don't want that rail for your rifle, its not correct for a M70 style rifle. Have you ever wondered why the PAP doesn't have a rear sling swivel on it?
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Old 06-19-2014, 11:47 PM   #34
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I haven't lol. I don't have a pap 70 series, an M92.

But it's good to know! So M89! Only I'll probly just cop out and do a stormwerkz
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Old 06-20-2014, 12:24 AM   #35
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Quote:
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I haven't lol. I don't have a pap 70 series, an M92.

But it's good to know! So M89! Only I'll probly just cop out and do a stormwerkz
Expect to pay $700 or so if one pops up. The scopes are fairly hard to come by.
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