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Old 02-25-2014, 09:17 AM   #1
etown_ak
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Default Burying 7.62 Spam Cans

Lately I'very been thinking about using burying ammo as a method of long term storage & a way to secure ammo. Obviously, water and temperature fluctuation are your enemy.
I've thought about taking the Romanian Spam cans, coating them in a product similar to Hurculiner (the rubberized bed liner), and then either vacuum sealing the whole mess or double wrapping it in heavy duty construction trash bags. Then, after digging a 3-4 ft hole and filling the bottom with 4-6 inches of gravel for drainage, burying the coated and bagged can at about 3.5 ft to avoid temperature fluctuation.
Any input on this? I feel like it'd be good to go for at least 5 years, maybe more. What do you guys think?
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Old 02-25-2014, 09:25 AM   #2
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Not exactly readily available,but probably be ok for a few years.If the minute men buried theirs we would still be an english colony...
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Old 02-25-2014, 09:32 AM   #3
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I have plenty available for immediate use in a couple locations. This is just an idea for a bug out situation I suppose.
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Old 02-25-2014, 09:58 AM   #4
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The time to bury it is the time to use it. If someone is coming to confiscate, just shoot them in the face. Check their driver's license and find out where they live. Then go over there, kill their entire family, cut their heads off, and place them upon stakes displayed in the yard. Oh, and their little dog Toto too, as a finishing touch. Burn the house to the ground, but be careful not to damage adjacent property.

Soon, confiscation will fall out of favor. Consequences tend to modify behavior.
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Old 02-25-2014, 10:13 AM   #5
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Holy shit dude.
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Old 02-25-2014, 10:25 AM   #6
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I wasn't thinking about confiscation as a motivator for burying, but such acts would definitely lead to behavior modification for someone.
My train of thought is more along the lines of large civil unrest or natural disasters, etc in which going to my other more residential storage locations isn't prudent.
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Old 02-25-2014, 10:36 AM   #7
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Ahh.

A lot will depend on your environment. I've seen stuff rust more in a few days in the southeast, than a year in the desert.

Historically, "muslin" (gauze) has been used as a binder. It is unclear to me whether the gauze is covered with protectant before or after wrapping. I suspect it is after. Wrap the item, then immerse in hot grease/paraffin/cosmolene.
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Old 02-25-2014, 11:26 AM   #8
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Save yourself some trouble. Get a ziplock style bag that will fit the spam can. Put can in. Fill remaining space with rice. Seal and bury. Only thing you really have to worry about is a plant getting its roots in it, and nothing'll stop that, really.
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Old 02-25-2014, 06:05 PM   #9
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Quote:
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The time to bury it is the time to use it. If someone is coming to confiscate, just shoot them in the face. Check their driver's license and find out where they live. Then go over there, kill their entire family, cut their heads off, and place them upon stakes displayed in the yard. Oh, and their little dog Toto too, as a finishing touch. Burn the house to the ground, but be careful not to damage adjacent property.

Soon, confiscation will fall out of favor. Consequences tend to modify behavior.
As much of an "Arrogant Bastard" as you are, I cannot believe that you are being serious. Regardless of the poor choices a man might make, advocating the murder of his wife and children, whose only crime is being related to said man, is abhorrent. If you are being serious, that makes you no better than the man in question. In fact, it makes you worse.
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Old 02-25-2014, 06:30 PM   #10
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As much of an "Arrogant Bastard" as you are, I cannot believe that you are being serious. Regardless of the poor choices a man might make, advocating the murder of his wife and children, whose only crime is being related to said man, is abhorrent. If you are being serious, that makes you no better than the man in question. In fact, it makes you worse.
The reason terror has been used for all of human history, is that it works (really damn well).

Apologists argue that the deliberate targeting of non-combatants by the US and British bombers in WWII, against Japan and Germany, was moral, because the terror campaigns would bring a quicker end to the war and in the net, save lives.

I ponder questions such as this. Perhaps you have a better answer. How does one go about preventing a heavily armed and well supported force from engaging in criminal actions against a less powerful populace? The objective is not merely to stop one guy at one time and place, from carrying out his illegal activities, but to motivate all such people to cease the activities everywhere.

I submit that men are motivated by two primal factors: fear, and reward. And I suspect that what men fear most, is the loss of that which they hold most dear. For most, this would be family. It is also the weakest link in the logistical chain supporting the operator.

Should things get unpleasant, there will be those who embrace ruthless action, and those getting on boxcars.
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Old 02-25-2014, 06:35 PM   #11
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Default wow !!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunplumber View Post
The time to bury it is the time to use it. If someone is coming to confiscate, just shoot them in the face. Check their driver's license and find out where they live. Then go over there, kill their entire family, cut their heads off, and place them upon stakes displayed in the yard. Oh, and their little dog Toto too, as a finishing touch. Burn the house to the ground, but be careful not to damage adjacent property.

Soon, confiscation will fall out of favor. Consequences tend to modify behavior.
talk about mentally unstable !! wooooow ! i think someone has been off their meds !! maybe a lil scary seeing as how this member also has firearms athand ! wow ,
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Old 02-25-2014, 06:45 PM   #12
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talk about mentally unstable !! wooooow ! i think someone has been off their meds !! maybe a lil scary seeing as how this member also has firearms athand ! wow ,
Those who ponder how a weak group can prevent forced coercion by a strong group, require high intelligence, problem solving skills, and cold rationality. It is a non-sequitur to assert a lack of mental stability, for including unpleasant options.

Perhaps putting a flower in the JBT's rifle will protect your god-given rights. I am skeptical.
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Old 02-25-2014, 06:47 PM   #13
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dude , the guy was just pondering about possibly burying ammo , not the friggen maccacre of anyone who comes to his door !!! i think you need a lil mental help ol buddy
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Old 02-25-2014, 07:07 PM   #14
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Why would you bury ammo? Can you easily access it when you need it? Why can't you store it normally inside? It will last longer inside, and it's easily accessible. Buy a fire resistant safe and throw it in there if you are worried about fire or theft. Or you could make/buy something that will hide it in your walls/ceiling/floor. Think Japanese Ninja's type house.
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Old 02-25-2014, 07:18 PM   #15
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.... I ponder questions such as this. Perhaps you have a better answer. How does one go about preventing a heavily armed and well supported force from engaging in criminal actions against a less powerful populace?....
I do not pretend to have all the answers but there are lines I will not cross no matter what the perceived gain or loss may be. Murdering non-combatant women and children, is one of those lines.

Regarding the SEAL Team members of Operation Red Wings; we hate the price they (and those who tried to rescue them) paid for letting the unarmed goat herders go free but are proud they did what they did because it was the "right thing to do". It's part of what makes us, as Americans, "better" than our enemies. I can only pray that I could make such a courageous decision one day if find myself in such a situation.

What is the point of life if you have to become worse than the man you call your enemy to live it.
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Old 02-25-2014, 07:23 PM   #16
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The only reason any one would be burying ammo is in anticipation of violence visited upon them by the Kings Men, in the quest for confiscation of said ammo and other assets (property) that would be invaluable in a survival or open hostilities environment. I have encountered at least one man who buried his AR-15, back about 20 years ago to keep it from being potentially confiscated by the Kings Men. I utilize the very durable Plastic Hardboxes and other types of cans and boxes - the Hard Boxes are large enough to place 400-500 rounds in - a couple in mags and a chest rig or carry bag, with sometimes a suspender set-up. The boxes can hold a lot, even an AK Pistol or similar, and are available at Lowes and Home Depot - they are the black very heavy duty plastic/polymer with yellow lits and can be camoed to fit. If using them coat the inside of the closing surfaces with a rubberized coating like Rustoleum rubberized spray or Flex-Seal to aid in water proofing. You can camo the boxes and lids with plastic spray paint of choice. An ammo can or two can be placed in these easily along with the other items I have mentioned. The whole box can be sealed even locked as it has the holes for that. The rice idea noted above is a good one. The Boxes, metal or plastic, or tubes, enlongated boxes, drums, etc can be buried at a depth desired and placed and covered in well though out secure undisclosed locations. Think and plan on numerous locations. You won't be able to carry more than 400 or five hundred rounds very easily, but the "supply points" should be geared to re-supply mainly. A larger concentration of boxes can be created for more immediate access and use with numbers or a team. My concepts are mainly to place the spam cans after coating, in a box as I have described or other container - drum, metal drum, etc and so on (Just use the imagination) The outer container would be the primary barrier.
In terms of what awaits the populace when the Kings Men are eventually unleashed, well, let's just say that they will be less than respectful of you your family and your Rights and Freedoms, and those of tour fellow firearms owning citizens. That will be obvious right away. No need to elaborate. And I would think that YOU will be acting accordingly............
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Old 02-25-2014, 07:35 PM   #17
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Spray the can with some 3M undercoating before you burying it or get some 40mm cans spray them and put the ammo cans in there with some desicant......
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Old 02-25-2014, 08:37 PM   #18
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The only reason any one would be burying ammo is in anticipation of violence visited upon them by the Kings Men, in the quest for confiscation of said ammo and other assets (property) that would be invaluable in a survival or open hostilities environment.
That is my understanding as well. Burying ammo simply for its recreational value seems somewhat pointless. Therefore, I assumed the hypothetical scenario you outlined.

Which brings the question - bury it for when?

One would assume the Prince will have some success in confiscation, which shifts the odds more in his favor.

So what is the point of hiding something for a future where a successful resistance is significantly less likely than at the time of such Royal Decree?

The time to resist totalitarianism is before it gets complete control.

Of course, this is all just hypothetical.

No government has ever rounded up undesirables and put them in concentration camps (except the Americans, British, Russians, Japanese, Germans,Chinese, N. Koreans, Serbs, etc.)

No government has ever confiscated firearms as a step toward totalitarianism (Except the British, Russians, Japanese, Germans, Chinese, N. Koreans, Serbs, Americans, Cambodians, Chinese, etc.)

And we're safe here in America. The US government has never used the Army to quell peaceful protest (except for the Veterans' March). Never gone door-do-door confiscating firearms (except for Katrina). Never put citizens in concentration camps (excepts the Japanese). Never staged false-flag events for political purposes (except Gulf of Tonkin, and arguably 9-11, Muir, Sandy Hook, etc). We're safe here.

Anyway, I sure hope nothing ever comes of it to make my bad thoughts become relevant. I'm just a fat old guy who really enjoys hot running water, air conditioning, the internet, net-flix, an adult beverage now and then, a cigar more often than I should, a nice BBQ with friends from time to time, a wonderful family, and a job I love. It would be a major inconvenience to have to get my fat old body moving in some George Washington and Patrick Henry Patriot crap.
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Old 02-25-2014, 09:00 PM   #19
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Burying things in Florida are problematic as the water table, in most locations, is very near the surface. Plus the soil tends to be very acidic.

There's always a risk of damage to anything you bury in the ground. Moisture is a sneaky thing.

I haven't seen it mentioned yet in this thread, but have you looked into PVC cache tubes?




Probably a good idea to have a few of these around, jic. Where I live, there's more of a risk of damage to whatever I would put in one of them.
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Old 02-25-2014, 09:44 PM   #20
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That is my understanding as well. Burying ammo simply for its recreational value seems somewhat pointless. Therefore, I assumed the hypothetical scenario you outlined.

Which brings the question - bury it for when?

One would assume the Prince will have some success in confiscation, which shifts the odds more in his favor.

So what is the point of hiding something for a future where a successful resistance is significantly less likely than at the time of such Royal Decree?

The time to resist totalitarianism is before it gets complete control.

Of course, this is all just hypothetical.

No government has ever rounded up undesirables and put them in concentration camps (except the Americans, British, Russians, Japanese, Germans,Chinese, N. Koreans, Serbs, etc.)

No government has ever confiscated firearms as a step toward totalitarianism (Except the British, Russians, Japanese, Germans, Chinese, N. Koreans, Serbs, Americans, Cambodians, Chinese, etc.)

And we're safe here in America. The US government has never used the Army to quell peaceful protest (except for the Veterans' March). Never gone door-do-door confiscating firearms (except for Katrina). Never put citizens in concentration camps (excepts the Japanese). Never staged false-flag events for political purposes (except Gulf of Tonkin, and arguably 9-11, Muir, Sandy Hook, etc). We're safe here.

Anyway, I sure hope nothing ever comes of it to make my bad thoughts become relevant. I'm just a fat old guy who really enjoys hot running water, air conditioning, the internet, net-flix, an adult beverage now and then, a cigar more often than I should, a nice BBQ with friends from time to time, a wonderful family, and a job I love. It would be a major inconvenience to have to get my fat old body moving in some George Washington and Patrick Henry Patriot crap.
Mark, you summed up my feelings exactly. Can I buy you a drink at SHOT 2015?
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Old 02-25-2014, 10:52 PM   #21
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It would be a major inconvenience to have to get my fat old body moving in some George Washington and Patrick Henry Patriot crap.
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Old 02-25-2014, 11:18 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by gunplumber View Post
The time to bury it is the time to use it. If someone is coming to confiscate, just shoot them in the face. Check their driver's license and find out where they live. Then go over there, kill their entire family, cut their heads off, and place them upon stakes displayed in the yard. Oh, and their little dog Toto too, as a finishing touch. Burn the house to the ground, but be careful not to damage adjacent property.

Soon, confiscation will fall out of favor. Consequences tend to modify behavior.



fantastic!

honest
and proper
thanks for the reality check
well done
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Old 02-25-2014, 11:23 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by TangoUniform View Post
Burying things in Florida are problematic as the water table, in most locations, is very near the surface. Plus the soil tends to be very acidic.

There's always a risk of damage to anything you bury in the ground. Moisture is a sneaky thing.

I haven't seen it mentioned yet in this thread, but have you looked into PVC cache tubes?




Probably a good idea to have a few of these around, jic. Where I live, there's more of a risk of damage to whatever I would put in one of them.
works for my ammo cans in florida

http://www.kilz.com/primer/v/index.j...006b0910acRCRD

kilz makes a shit load of waterproofing products seals it up like a ducks ass
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Old 02-25-2014, 11:41 PM   #24
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fantastic!

honest
and proper
thanks for the reality check
well done
Sadly in human history, victory normally goes to the side willing to unleash the most brutality first.

As for burying things. I've been shocked at how well water wicks into things.. A poly barrel would probably be ok. But its better to have several layers of protection that are independent of each other.

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Old 02-26-2014, 02:43 AM   #25
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My initial reasoning behind burying ammo and other supplies was less of an issue arising from the need of needing to hide supplies from the king's men than from a scenario in which either natural disaster, civil unrest, or other occurrence made the residences I've stashed ammo either out of reach or occupied by less than friendly individuals. Supply cashes in inconspicuous locations that would be accessible in an emergency would give you at least some operational mobility. I suppose such cashes would also be handy if the king's men were involved.

The morals of the aforementioned scenario are sticky and slippery indeed. Does one resort to brutal acts to stem the assault on liberty? Or respond in kind to such acts against his loved ones or compatriots? Or does one stand on their morals & allow their way of life and liberties to be pried away to meet the needs of the world's most recent despot? I don't offer a prospective on this because how every man acts is his business and responsibility. But I do feel morality without liberty can quickly become futile.


An alternate plan I've considered is to bury PVC tubes as mentioned above. One end sealed with a cap, the other sealed with a screw in capped and siliconed for extra protection. In these tubes will be 2-4 magazines, individually sealed in either ziplock bags or vacuum packed
(either way packed with moisture absorbers). Additionally, 4-6 small 'battle packs' of ammo (180 rounds seems a good number to me; 9 boxes = 6 mags) packed in the same fashion of the mags will be stored in the PVC. The whole mess will be buried to the best depth depending on one's AO. This way, if one needs ammo or mags, just retrieve the PVC and get whatever you'd need and return the cashe, still sealed and safe from the elements.
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Old 02-26-2014, 10:16 AM   #26
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One may be forced to abandon a location for a short time, due to natural disaster, with plans on returning to it. Theft or damage of property that cannot be taken with, is a real concern.

Perhaps one could construct a hiding place in which to cache items that cannot be evacuated. As a semi-permanent fixture on your property, drainage could be built in. Or high in the foundation of the house, which would protect from most flooding (tsunamis, not so much). Heat is lowest I suspect, at the foundation, and for fire protection, the items could be wrapped in fire resistant material. Ammo I would want separate from other things as it can ignite at temps that would not bother guns.
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Old 02-26-2014, 06:47 PM   #27
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The time to bury it is the time to use it. If someone is coming to confiscate, just shoot them in the face. Check their driver's license and find out where they live. Then go over there, kill their entire family, cut their heads off, and place them upon stakes displayed in the yard. Oh, and their little dog Toto too, as a finishing touch. Burn the house to the ground, but be careful not to damage adjacent property.

Soon, confiscation will fall out of favor. Consequences tend to modify behavior.
Excellent post!


100% correct, the way to beat them is to attack the heart. Hit them where it hurts. They will soon realize the folly of their ways, and their motivation to continue said folly will wane. One thing to remember, the side with the most motivation usually wins. We must be more motivated to keep our freedoms than they are to take them
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Old 02-27-2014, 12:04 AM   #28
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Hello All,

Gunplumber posts have been reported to us... stop reporting them. This is not your mother's AK forum.

Welcome to the files and the concept of asymmetrical warfare.

Welcome to the concept of internal war and how it is fought.

Carry on.

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Old 02-27-2014, 12:54 AM   #29
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Gunplumber's an arrogant bastard for sure but I've always respected the man.

He seems the type that can back it up and I always respect men who can.


One trick I saw for an in ground cache went as follows:

--dig large square hole wider and deeper than the container you have.

--place some 2x4s or large tree branches you've cut in the bottom of the hole. Large enough to support the weight without going all the way into the ground.

--place container on those boards/branches

--Cover with more boards/branches, maybe some plastic sheeting, even garbage bags would probably work. You just want to prevent the water from washing out your covering.

--Cover that with dirt, maybe stick some plants in that, or cover that with leaves depending on the local terrain.


Another way is PVC pipe, as noted. Use something to hold moisture inside the container like a silica gel pack. Best, I suppose, if you have the ammo in battlepaks. You can use a food sealer also.


In some places, maybe the inside of a tree could be used.

Abandoned buildings might work short term.

Depends on the timeframe in all of these cases.

I hope this helps.
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Old 02-27-2014, 01:50 AM   #30
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As much of an "Arrogant Bastard" as you are, I cannot believe that you are being serious. Regardless of the poor choices a man might make, advocating the murder of his wife and children, whose only crime is being related to said man, is abhorrent. If you are being serious, that makes you no better than the man in question. In fact, it makes you worse.
I just stumbled onto this thread and already read that statement elsewhere... I dont advocate it, but illpoint out a few principles, past the whole vengeance thing...
-the apple doesnt fall far from the tree and if its a particularly depraved piece of shit (not necessarily LE, etc, just saying) ... whoever married thats likely just as much of a slag bitch that the world and its inhabitants would be better off without (ive got families of shit in mind for that, and families of better, more productive people to back up that stance, and the system itself has records that tie all them together as plain, out of an asshole, shit)


But carry on, im only saying that in another respect or why not to feel too much sympathy
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Old 02-27-2014, 02:39 AM   #31
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Encase the can in a block of acrylic resin, should be good to go for many years.
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Old 02-27-2014, 02:56 AM   #32
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The time to bury it is the time to use it. If someone is coming to confiscate, just shoot them in the face. Check their driver's license and find out where they live. Then go over there, kill their entire family, cut their heads off, and place them upon stakes displayed in the yard. Oh, and their little dog Toto too, as a finishing touch. Burn the house to the ground, but be careful not to damage adjacent property.

Soon, confiscation will fall out of favor. Consequences tend to modify behavior.
+100000000000000000000000000000000000, and dont forget to kill their second cousin in Toledo too...
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Old 02-27-2014, 04:21 AM   #33
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I'd say using the PVC tube is the best idea, 6-8 " pipe with glued end caps would be water tight..but I'd ad if you're burying ammo, remove all cardboard packaging.. if you can, if it's not a spam can, if so just leave it sealed in the can..I think the idea of wrapping the can in oil soaked rags or Cosmo is Ok also..but I'd say not needed if the container is sealed.. b2b
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Old 02-27-2014, 04:30 AM   #34
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I'd say using the PVC tube is the best idea, 6-8 " pipe with glued end caps would be water tight..but I'd ad if you're burying ammo, remove all cardboard packaging.. if you can, if it's not a spam can, if so just leave it sealed in the can..I think the idea of wrapping the can in oil soaked rags or Cosmo is Ok also..but I'd say not needed if the container is sealed.. b2b
Spam cans rust. This is the reason for suggesting it be covered with an air- and watertight coating.
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Old 02-27-2014, 08:34 AM   #35
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The time to bury it is the time to use it. If someone is coming to confiscate, just shoot them in the face. Check their driver's license and find out where they live. Then go over there, kill their entire family, cut their heads off, and place them upon stakes displayed in the yard. Oh, and their little dog Toto too, as a finishing touch. Burn the house to the ground, but be careful not to damage adjacent property.

Soon, confiscation will fall out of favor. Consequences tend to modify behavior.
Thanks for all the reactionary comments and a report post on this quoted message above.
Instead of being shocked at what he said, READ it and THINK about it. The point Mark makes is that if confiscation becomes a reality, the Republic is dead. It is long since gone at that moment. If you dont fight for it then, you never will and servitude is your new life.
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