11-07-2006, 04:13 PM
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Member
AKaholic #: 1021 Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 134
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Cleaning for Corrosive ammo
If I am to order some of the Russian 7N6 5.45 I hear it will be corrosive. How do you all clean for corrosive ammo? I have used windex in the past on old bolt action 8mm guns, but how does it affect the gas system in an AK and how do you clean the gas tube? Do you just spray the windex (or whatever) in there and let it drain out? I really never shoot corrosive out of semi-autos...
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Skilter American by birth, Texan by the Grace of God. |
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11-07-2006, 06:43 PM
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#2 |
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Member
AKaholic #: 5206 Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 103
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good ol'e G.I bore cleaner
 nothing smells quite like it
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11-07-2006, 08:05 PM
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#3 |
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Member
AKaholic #: 1021 Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 134
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ok... where do you buy it? Will it spray like windex?
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Skilter American by birth, Texan by the Grace of God. |
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11-07-2006, 09:04 PM
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Curio & Relic
AKaholic #: 2036 Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,541
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They haven't made it in years, most is WWII surplus. Surplus stores and Gunshows are about the only source. There ain't nothing better for the job though. I suppose you could put it in a sprayer, but after smelling it you won't want to. I just soak patches in it and run them through and over everywhere the gas can get.
The second best method is hot soapy water. Just swab out the gas tube with it and dunk the piston. Swab out the bore and oil everything up. Either method, do it again a day later. |
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11-07-2006, 09:21 PM
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#5 | |
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AKaholic #: 5206 Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 103
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Quote:
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11-14-2006, 10:32 AM
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#6 |
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Curio & Relic
AKaholic #: 3934 Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 6,659
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What they said AND!!!!!!!
Windex good too. Add a couple more table spoons of Amonia and then spary thing all over. Let sit, repeat. The hit inards and repeat. Finish up w/ cleaning as would do normal weapon. If you can get your gun to a tank w/ scalding hot water, dip method best and gun will dry because of heat from water.... Clean normally following dunking. panzertruppe |
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11-14-2006, 12:30 PM
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#7 |
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Curio & Relic
AKaholic #: 3738 Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 32,177
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You'll want to clean the gas system too.For cleaning after corrosive ammo liquid dish washing detergent works pretty good.After cleaning and drying a light coat of oil will protect things.
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11-14-2006, 11:18 PM
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Curio & Relic
AKaholic #: 3934 Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 6,659
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No reason you can't strip the gun to bare metal and put it in dishwasher, short cycle w/ heat dry!
panzertruppe |
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11-15-2006, 09:25 AM
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#9 |
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Curio & Relic
AKaholic #: 3738 Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 32,177
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You don't want to put dirty firearms in the same dishwasher where dishes are washed.Only do that if it's old extra dishwasher just for gun and car parts.There's a lot of lead and other chemicals in dirty firearms.
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11-15-2006, 09:03 PM
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#10 |
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Member
AKaholic #: 5676 Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 217
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Sides it pisses off the Misses
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11-21-2006, 03:19 PM
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Member
AKaholic #: 6581 Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: A bad place for guns
Posts: 62
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Quote:
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11-21-2006, 09:28 PM
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#12 |
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Temp ban-Multiple indiscretions.
AKaholic #: 90 Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,090
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The corrosive residue left from mecury primers is a SALT.
Water disolves salt. Oil displaces water. |
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11-23-2006, 07:12 PM
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New Member
AKaholic #: 5263 Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 18
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Quote:
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11-27-2006, 12:15 AM
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#14 |
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Curio & Relic
AKaholic #: 3934 Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 6,659
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Then use vinegar! Hot soapy water does it every time ask any black powder shooter, just very tedious......
panzertruppe |
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11-27-2006, 06:23 PM
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#15 |
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Veteran Member
AKaholic #: 5400 Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Erie, PA
Posts: 1,390
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That's right, both methods work and do what you want them to do in cleaning your AK's or rifles, period, after a consumation of corrosive ammunition at the shooting range. The dish soap, water dunking, windex/vinigar, method is tedious, like Panzertruppe and allesennogwat had mentioned.... Just my .02. Ken from Pa.
ps....Just make sure that you thoroughly wipe down,swab,dab, every nook and cranny with a good cleaning, preserving oil like (CLP-breakfree) and clenzoil, *My Favorite* or your typical Rem-Oil/w/teflon.... Ken |
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11-29-2006, 02:35 PM
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#16 |
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Member
AKaholic #: 6289 Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 78
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Water first then powder solvent of your choice. My .02
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11-29-2006, 08:53 PM
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#17 |
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Member
AKaholic #: 4971 Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 288
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This post could also be titled, "Why do we pay $150 per 1,000 for crap (corrosive) ammo? Given all the work involved in cleaning the gun after firing, shouldn't this ammo be, like REALLY cheap? LOL
OK, the real Russian stuff shoots really well. However, one little problem everyone seem to overlook. Your gun will be ruined if you don't clean the crap out of it because of a major design flaw - corrosive primers. Kinda like, I really like those BMWs. So much in fact that I will overlook the fact that their engines blow at 50K miles. |
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11-29-2006, 10:15 PM
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#18 |
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Member
AKaholic #: 7063 Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 80
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bathtub and hot soapy water.
rinse lather and repeat. blow dry and oil. |
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12-10-2006, 05:54 PM
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Member
AKaholic #: 6281 Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: North central TX
Posts: 57
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Quote:
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12-18-2006, 12:56 AM
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#20 |
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Member
AKaholic #: 581 Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 57
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Windex main ingredient is water
You do not need to clean every nook and cranny Been shooting corrosive for years and never had a problem. I use the old milky WWII cleaner and clean barrel, gas tube, gas piston and wipe the bolt face and chamber area of receiver with a patch soaked in the WWII bore cleaner. It ain't that big a deal. Damn every garand ever made had corrosive ammo shot through it! |
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12-18-2006, 01:24 PM
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#21 | |
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Member
AKaholic #: 5155 Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 371
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Quote:
The corrosive primers have a longer storage life that non-corrosive primers, which is a big issue for stockpiling ammo. The standard russian rifle has a chrome plated bore and chamber along with other areas (gas piston, etc.) that would effect the reliability of the rifle operation. |
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12-18-2006, 08:06 PM
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#22 |
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Member
AKaholic #: 6554 Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: louisiana
Posts: 450
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According to hatchers notebook where coorosive ammo causes problems is when the potassium chlorate salts from the primer get trapped under the copper/metal/powder fouling. He recomended that you first clean the chamber and bore with a copper solvent as you would normally then follow up with hot soapy water in the bore and chamber, bolt face, firing pin, gas system etc, anywhere gas could have gotten. Then follow up with a light coating of oil.
I have used this meathod for cleaning my 8mm mauser fired with corrosive ammo for years. This gun does not have a chrome plated anything and has never rusted. Also I use a product called Wipe Out foaming bore cleaner. It cleans down to the bare metal with ease. I use a slotted tip with patch and run a wet patch with the Wipe Out accelerator then spray the Wipe Out in the bore. Come back an hour later and run a bore snake through. If I still see blue in there I repeat and let sit overnight and it is clean. I greatly prefer this thann ramming a rod up and down the bore over and over possibly damaging it. |
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12-18-2006, 09:22 PM
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#23 |
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Member
AKaholic #: 4371 Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 44
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corrision in less than 50% humidity
The corrosion also needs one thing to get rusting a barrel, Water in the air. I have found that no matter how corrosive (ie CZ 52 rifle ammo) the red will not show up in the gun or empty casings kept in my basement until the humidity reaches somewhere over 55%. So, if you cant get to cleaning your gun that day DONT keep it in a garage or somewhere with humidity, and I have shot corrosive for years in dozens of guns -many semi. (Try to clean a "Czeck wreck" rifle&^%$#) Just my .02.
EJ. |
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12-20-2006, 06:44 PM
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Member
AKaholic #: 803 Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: S. FL.
Posts: 121
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Quote:
 Pretty dramatic, but Far from the truth, in FACT MANY Battle rifles from the past fired That TERRIBLE corrosive ammo there entire lives and were less than ideally cleaned by there owners for a Variety of reasons.. Mausers, Mosins Enfields,SVT's,CZ52's, and MANY others.. They have survived quite well, for many years.. The Primers were/are FAR from a FLAW. CORROSIVE primers are OLD news and have been around for many many years. The FACT that MOST (if properly stored) will fire 60-70 years after they were made is PRETTY damn good IMO.. NOT a flaw ? Fast forward to today.. I have fired MANY rounds of Corrosive ammo in several calibers over the years with NO issues whatsoever.. The Cleaning IMHO is no more difficult than any other ammo, with the exception it should be done ASAP after your range trip is over. MUCH of this ammo is very good reliable fodder for the addiction, and best of ALL (for now anyway) is Reasonably priced. Lots of guns that Fire OLD Corrosive ammmo are REAL bargains. Mosins and Mausers are only TWO great examples. A Mosin can be had for under $100.00, and with another $100.00 (less actually) you can buy almost a 1000 rounds of ammo. Sh** how sweet is that?? A Full Size Battle rifle that you can shoot till your arm falls off for under $200.00 BEANS.. SWEET DEAL IMO, and cleaning is a SNAP..  I will keep buying AN shooting it as long as I am able.. |
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12-20-2006, 09:39 PM
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#25 | |
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Member
AKaholic #: 4971 Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 288
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Quote:
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12-20-2006, 10:00 PM
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#26 | |
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Member
AKaholic #: 803 Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: S. FL.
Posts: 121
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Quote:
 I live IN FLORIDA... Pretty much as TROPICAL a Climate as there is in this Country, I guess LA is prolly bad too? Humidity here is, well Pretty High.. I stand by my comments, and YES I have seen Pitted, & Frosted Barrels, as well as Pitted Bolt Faces.. Is this something you have just recently Discovered? But again Most are from 60 Y/O guns that were not taken care of.. I have 60 Y/O guns that prolly NEVER shot ANYTHING BUT corrosive ammo, and they Look just Fine.. FYI the Cost of the Corrosive ammo is prolly More related to the HUGE quantities manufactured over the years, than it being Corrosive.. Thats why it called SURPLUS... 8MM, and 7.62X54R (for example) had been made for so many years and in such huge quantities I often wonder how they did it? Literally TONS, and TONS of it are still available and some of it has not been made for over 50 years.. Oh, and for the record, I DO NOT shoot this ammo in NIB Guns.. In FACT I do not own ANY NIB firearms that even shoot these calibers, and I would GUESS most other shooters do not either? Ever seen a PERFECT, SPOTLESS, BEAUTIFUL bore of an Excellent Plus FINN M39? Well I even shoot corrosive in one of these.. YES Kids I admit it. HOWEVER I am very cognizant of the POTENTIAL for damage to my SWEET FINN, and I clean her FIRST when I get home..:whiskey: |
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12-21-2006, 12:49 PM
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#27 |
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Member
AKaholic #: 4971 Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 288
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Dude.........you crack me up!!!!
 Are we talking about the same ammo? Steel cased, lacquer coated, steel core, corrosive primer, berden primed, mass produced? Maybe not "crap" in the literal sense, but please bring to my attention "cheaper" ammo. Please don't say Wolf, Wolf is not lacquer coated anymore or corrosive. Me thinks "Peak Ammo" got your senses 
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12-21-2006, 01:10 PM
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#28 |
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Senior Member
AKaholic #: 7218 Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 790
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Most of my corrosive ammo experience is with .303 British. What I did is get a piece of garden hose that fit in the action of my No 4 and put a funnel on the end of it. I then ran the hottest water from the tap down the barrel for a few minutes.
Since the main villain is potassium chloride salt residue from the chlorate primers, I just dissolve it in the water. Hot water just makes it easier to dry at the end. -- GLA PS You have to pretty much assume that surplus ammo is corrosive. Also, chlorate primers are so stable that the US military still uses them in special, hi-temp (around 400 degrees) application ammunition. |
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12-21-2006, 05:55 PM
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#29 | |
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Member
AKaholic #: 803 Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: S. FL.
Posts: 121
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Quote:
I really DON'T know what to say except it's obvious you don't know what the Hell your talking about.. IF by "CHEAP" you mean inexpensive? I would give you that.. IF you say CHEAP and mean CHEAP as in "SUBSTANDARD" (Crap) than you are quite simply Mistaken.. Military AMMO was made in HUGE quantities and designed to be reliable, and to deal with Long Term storage. IN MOST cases it has done that quite well I think. IT seems you wish to dance with silly comments instead of addressing the Issue? YOU said: quote"However, one little problem everyone seem to overlook. Your gun will be ruined if you don't clean the crap out of it because of a major design flaw - corrosive primers." End Quote.... I said, and STILL say Cleaning the gun is NO BIG deal.. IMO the OPPORTUNITY to shoot Lots of rounds in lots of guns without the Huge ammo expense is WORTH the Small inconvenience.. I also said "I AM TALKING" about C&R IE: Military Battle rifles that have been around in some cases for 100 years.. NOT some NIB OFF the shelf rifle. Pretty Much Knowone buys a Rifle in these calibers anyway, so the argument fron the NIB perspective it pretty much Mute.. |
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12-22-2006, 09:01 AM
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#30 |
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Member
AKaholic #: 803 Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: S. FL.
Posts: 121
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Some have prolly seen this before but there is some very good info here. Good Link RE: 7.62X54R:
http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinAmmo.htm For Corrosive Ammo Clean Up,here is another link. This guy goes into more detail than may be necessary but when you find a Method that works for you, clean up time is only increased by a Couple Minutes per Gun.. http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting...sive/index.asp |
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12-22-2006, 01:51 PM
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#31 |
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Senior Member
AKaholic #: 7218 Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 790
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After reading the first link, I was going to stick to my guns and say that water alone is good enough, but add that the ammonia is a copper solvent. Then I read the second link and saw that very same information there already.
I was a bit confused why he switched to Windex when he said he was cheap and was a bit worried about the ammonia hurting the steel. Nothing is cheaper than plain water. If you use a 50-50 (or weaker) solution of water/ammonia, there is no blue dye to mask the "done-ness" of copper removal. -- GLA |
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12-22-2006, 02:33 PM
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#32 |
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Member
AKaholic #: 803 Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: S. FL.
Posts: 121
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Max-Guy~
Personally I am not 100% sure about the use of the ammonia? I have read with interest the contents of the link several times.. My Intent really was to just show that the negative opinions about CORROSIVE ammo IMHO are a Bit exaggerated and I wanted to show MORE than just My OPINION on a Good cleaning routine. I have developed one that works great for me here in Florida, but this guy has a Good one that he has spent some time developing too and MANY have used it. I will soon TRY the WATER/AMMONIA mixture but I plan to Cut it quite a Bit and will use The SUDSY type ammonia instead. As far as COPPER removal SWEETS has a PRETTY STRONG product with AMMONIA being a BIG PART OF THE MIX.. I think a bit of care when using it or the mixture in question is al that is needed to prevent damage to the Exterior Finish of a firearm. I use the method I use to be sure I have neutralized the corrosion potential and then I follow with my Normal cleaning, and Oiling procedure. IF copper fouling is an issue with said gun I will address it then.. Ya know I have beem Using BALLISTOL, & CORROSION X as the First thing I run down the bore when I get home and have had good results doing so.. NO SCIENTIFIC proof either is magic but I have NO RUST in amy of my Guns.. I shoot a LOT of C&R rifles and many rounds of corrosive ammo every year.. Ultimately GREAT guns, that SHOULD be used and ENJOYED.. Cleaning is no biggy, as long as it's done quickly. |
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12-22-2006, 03:25 PM
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#33 |
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Senior Member
AKaholic #: 7218 Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 790
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I would freely use corrosive ammo in any gun except an M1 carbine or AR-15. The only ones I regularly do so are my No 4 Enfield and M-44.
In post #22, akajun quotes Hatcher's notebook about corrosive residues hiding under copper fouling, so I figured it might be smart to attack both kinds at the same time. Windex is a lot more convenient than mixing your own, especially since it comes in a spray bottle. If you don't care about getting every last bit of copper fouling out, then the blue dye is irrelevent. I will continue to use corrosive ammo and I know you will also. Good times = cheap ammo -- GLA |
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12-31-2006, 10:51 AM
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#34 |
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New Member
AKaholic #: 4323 Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Georgia
Posts: 16
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I've been shooting a SAR-2 and a SLR105 with the Russian corrosive 5.45 ammo.
The last two rounds out of the mag are non-corrosive wolf or barnaul. That evening or the next day, I clean the weapon gas system, barrel, chamber and bolt with a 10% ballistol/90% water mix (that is the mix recommended on the ballistol can for corrosive ammo- it makes a white foamy milkshake looking liquid) using brushes and several patches. Following day, I clean weapon again- gas system with solvent and bolt and barrel etc with ballistol. With K98's and M91's, I dont have any non-corrosive to shoot, but use same cleaning procedure as above(without gas system). So far this seems to work- no rust. |
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