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Old 09-17-2013, 09:23 PM   #1
hungryjoseph
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Default Armory USA vs Nodak Spud

I purchased two brands of receivers, the first being Armory USA and second being Nodak spud. I bought the armory usa not knowing anything about AK receivers. I just saw them on gunbroker and bought 6 of them without really thinking about it. I am making this thread because I haven't seen anyone show these receivers so I wanted to throw this information out there. First, the pictures





Now the nodak spuds,









I show this last picture to emphasize how straight the nodak spuds are. I took out my bolt carrier from my SAM7r and put it into all the nodak spud receivers. Then I took the bolt carrier from my century polish UF and it gave me the same results. They fit great and slid up and down with no problems. Out of the SIX armory USA receivers, I could only fit the SAM7r into a single receiver. that's just getting it in and sliding it. It was rough and looks like they all will need some work in sanding/smoothing out to get the action to cycle smooth. The polish carrier was the same except it fit into two of the armory usa receivers.

Here is my biggest gripe,



the redlines show how the nodak spud receiver is straight with no twist to it at the edges where the front and rear trunnions would go. The green line shows what 5 out of the 6 armory usa receivers look like, albeit exaggerated but still visible. I would return the armory usa receivers or call them about it but at this point I do not care. I am a maryland resident and doomsday is near. I will use the armory USA receivers to just build plinkers/beaters to get my feet wet in building and the nodak spuds as my SBR projects. Just need to get the paperwork in before Oct 1.

Also, I wouldve taken more pictures but the lines at the FFL's I had these shipped to were out the door so I didn't want to take up too much of their table space and time. I can't pick them up until next week.

Last edited by hungryjoseph; 09-17-2013 at 09:29 PM.
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Old 09-17-2013, 09:34 PM   #2
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Take a deep breath. While I do prefer the NDS, I've had more than a few customers send me Armorys to build on; and they've all come out great. The Armorys are probably over bent, making them narrow at the top. Without putting the trunnions in both ends of the receivers to spread them out, you are probably drawing inaccurate conclusions. If these are anything like the ones I've built on, you'll be fine.

Why the paperwork in before Oct 1?
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Old 09-17-2013, 09:36 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by hungryjoseph View Post
Out of the SIX armory USA receivers, I could only fit the SAM7r into a single receiver.
Are you aware the SAM-7 is a milled receiver rifle?

What does it have to do with stamped receivers?
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Old 09-17-2013, 09:44 PM   #4
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yeah I have no doubt that it'll turn out fine. I am just paranoid about the barrel being straight to the receiver. I want to mount scope rails on some of them and some Tech sights.

I want to get my paperwork in to the state police for CLEO sign off before Oct 1 because word on the street is that they aren't approving forms coming in after.

I am aware the sam7 is milled... but its carrier works fine in my stamped polish UF and vice versa... I don't really have a problem with it being a bit rough as I can just take a file and get to filing. I'm just describing what it is. Take it for what it's worth if it's worth anything.
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Old 09-17-2013, 09:45 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nalioth View Post
Are you aware the SAM-7 is a milled receiver rifle?

What does it have to do with stamped receivers?
That shouldn't make any difference. I've built milled guns with stamped carriers.
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Old 09-17-2013, 09:46 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by hungryjoseph View Post
yeah I have no doubt that it'll turn out fine. I am just paranoid about the barrel being straight to the receiver. I want to mount scope rails on some of them and some Tech sights.

I want to get my paperwork in to the state police for CLEO sign off before Oct 1 because word on the street is that they aren't approving forms coming in after.

I am aware the sam7 is milled... but its carrier works fine in my stamped polish UF and vice versa...
OK, it's an MD thing.

Yea, Nails is a little off on this one.
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Old 09-17-2013, 09:47 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nalioth View Post
Are you aware the SAM-7 is a milled receiver rifle?

What does it have to do with stamped receivers?
That shouldn't make any difference. I've built milled guns with stamped carriers.
Please show me the barrel trunnions that come with milled guns.

If they were milled down from cut-up receivers, then the guy might be falsely blaming the receivers for someone's potentially bad mill job.
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Old 09-17-2013, 09:54 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nalioth View Post
Please show me the barrel trunnions that come with milled guns.

If they were milled down from cut-up receivers, then the guy might be falsely blaming the receivers for someone's potentially bad mill job.
Sorry I'm just a little confused, what do the trunnions have to do with the carrier sliding on the rails? I haven't built one before so....
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Old 09-17-2013, 10:00 PM   #9
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Sorry. Did not see the "carrier" comment.

Arsenal USA receivers are considered "top of the line".

Not sure how yours got twisted / mangled, as Armory USA did not release them that way.
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Old 09-17-2013, 10:06 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by nalioth View Post
Please show me the barrel trunnions that come with milled guns.

If they were milled down from cut-up receivers, then the guy might be falsely blaming the receivers for someone's potentially bad mill job.
Wow, you really need to start at the beginning (or maybe I do). The OP just grabbed a carrier (that happened to be from a milled gun) to see how it fit in the rails of the stamped receivers he just received. I have to assume he's using these receivers to build stamped guns. Other than just using a stamped carrier for the check, you're right, one has nothing to do with the other. No one's said anything about milled trunnions (but you).

Sorry, nalioth, I was typing as you were posting. I think we're all on the same sheet now.
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Old 09-17-2013, 10:10 PM   #11
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Sorry. Did not see the "carrier" comment.

Arsenal USA receivers are considered "top of the line".

Not sure how yours got twisted / mangled, as Armory USA did not release them that way.
My money says his receivers are fine. Nothing about an AK is perfect; it's those very tight tolerances they're made to. (not) My money also says fitting those "stamped" trunnions into the receiver will make a big difference.
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Old 09-18-2013, 01:01 AM   #12
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I'm also sure it'll work fine. I'm just amazed at how the nodak spud receivers seem to be so much better for the same price. I could slide the carrier in and out, no hang ups, everything seemed straight. I'm sure some filing and fitting will make the armory usa receivers work. I will update later with a build
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Old 09-18-2013, 02:53 AM   #13
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Armory USA receivers are considered "top of the food chain".

Again, not sure how yours got mangled / disfigured as AUSA didn't sell them in that condition.
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Old 09-18-2013, 06:04 AM   #14
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hungryjoseph are you aware that the armory USA receivers are 1.6 mm thickness and the nodaks are 1.0 mm thick? The trunnions will need to be milled to fit into the Armory receivers but once riveted they will be VERY strong....They are very good receivers.
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Old 09-18-2013, 07:12 AM   #15
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Not all Armory USA receivers are 1.6mm, the ones the OP posted are not or there would be no XY stamps.

Op, you're splitting hairs. i prefer NoDak receivers but, there is nothing wrong with Armory's ether. The warpage you think you see is nothing, i have built on receivers that were warped badly and they came out fine after the trunnions were installed.
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Old 09-18-2013, 08:38 AM   #16
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akmelee,

You bring out a good point about the Armory receiver thickness, however RF57 is correct they come in both thicknesses. I "assumed" they were 1mm receivers. On closer inspection of the pics, yes they do have the X and Y axis stampings, so my assumption was correct (for once), they are of the 1mm variety.
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Old 09-18-2013, 11:04 AM   #17
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Most Armory / Elk Rivers I have built on and there are many have needed fitting in the rail area. I prefer the NDS over Armory / Elk River. The Armory / Elk Rivers have been floated around and around and around. You will be fine using either.

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Old 09-18-2013, 07:05 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akmelee View Post
hungryjoseph are you aware that the armory USA receivers are 1.6 mm thickness and the nodaks are 1.0 mm thick? The trunnions will need to be milled to fit into the Armory receivers but once riveted they will be VERY strong....They are very good receivers.
I bought them because they're 1.0mm. But the carrier should fit the 1.6 all the same as the 1.0 and the milled from what I've been seeing.
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Old 09-18-2013, 07:07 PM   #19
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The warpage you think you see is nothing, i have built on receivers that were warped badly and they came out fine after the trunnions were installed.
I don't think I see it, I know I see it. But like you said I think it'll straighten out when I rivet the trunnions in place. It's really not THAT bad, just enough to be visible. From what you guys are saying I don't feel as bad about it as I did when I saw the Nodaks
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Old 09-18-2013, 07:12 PM   #20
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I have at least one NDS receiver that would bind the carrier in the center of its travel.

It just needed a little fitting to make it work.
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Old 09-18-2013, 07:30 PM   #21
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I don't think I see it, I know I see it. But like you said I think it'll straighten out when I rivet the trunnions in place. It's really not THAT bad, just enough to be visible. From what you guys are saying I don't feel as bad about it as I did when I saw the Nodaks

Yeah, that's what I meant. After doing some that were really bent, what you have is not an issue at all. Build away.

As JRoberts said, Armory/Elk River receivers usually need a little more fitting. Also check for tooling marks as they are machined after heat treating and sometimes it isn't done very clean.

It's normal for NoDak's to need some fitting work in the magwell.
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Old 09-18-2013, 08:16 PM   #22
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The magwell is another thing; the Armories all could not fit my Radom polymer mags and barely fit the steel ones. The nodaks took them fine with no slop. I prefer the tightness of the armory in this case because I know I can make it fit how I want.
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Old 09-18-2013, 08:28 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jroberts1968 View Post
Most Armory / Elk Rivers I have built on and there are many have needed fitting in the rail area. I prefer the NDS over Armory / Elk River. The Armory / Elk Rivers have been floated around and around and around. You will be fine using either.

Jim
That's my experience as well, but it is certainly not a show-stopper. I would much rather file and stone a rail (or mill it a wee bit) than I would curse due to the lack of material. And I think you are of the same mind.

With all of the internal stresses of the complex stamped steel "box" and the heat-treatment and violent quench - I am surprised that most of them come away with very little fitting.
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Old 09-18-2013, 11:24 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hungryjoseph View Post
The magwell is another thing; the Armories all could not fit my Radom polymer mags and barely fit the steel ones. The nodaks took them fine with no slop. I prefer the tightness of the armory in this case because I know I can make it fit how I want.
When you say the magwell, do you mean the opening on the bottom or the guild tabs inside? The latter is the most important. All the Nodaks I have built needed filing to get a mag fully inserted. The opening on the bottom doesn't matter that much if the mags are fit to the parts that are suppose to hold it in place, front trunnion, selector stop, mag catch, guild tabs on inner rails and the ejector(on some applications). If all these things are fit correctly, magazines would still fit good even with a gaping hole on the bottom.
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Old 09-18-2013, 11:48 PM   #25
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I have at least one NDS receiver that would bind the carrier in the center of its travel.

It just needed a little fitting to make it work.
Ive had at least 100% of my flats have that problem too. lol Easy fix.
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Old 09-19-2013, 09:32 AM   #26
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The armory akm receivers were pressed using original euro dies. They are closest to an authentic euro spec AKM receiver, IMO, in dimension and over all looks. The NDS are nice but almost too clean, and have their fair share of issues depending in which model you buy. A competent builder could make an akm with either.

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Old 09-19-2013, 10:06 AM   #27
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Quote:
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That's my experience as well, but it is certainly not a show-stopper. I would much rather file and stone a rail (or mill it a wee bit) than I would curse due to the lack of material. And I think you are of the same mind.

With all of the internal stresses of the complex stamped steel "box" and the heat-treatment and violent quench - I am surprised that most of them come away with very little fitting.
Its funny I have plenty of full autos I run on flats that just keep going spot treated at the pins and ejector no issues at all. I build lots of rifles on flats spot treated for customer who want the serials to match and had a few issues but not that many to worry.

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