First Build - AK47 Polish Underfolder

shootNcpa · 07-15-2006, 06:48 PM

I enjoy firearms, shooting, cleaning, and just admiring all kinds. So, I have decided to build an AK-47. This is my first build, I have spent about three weeks looking all different kinds of AK web sites and gaining as much knowledge base as possible about building my very own AK.

So, my problems - I don't know if I should use rivets or screws. I hear there are Pros and Cons on this one issue.

So, my dilema is I don't have the tools to remove and replace the barrel. So, I thought screw will be easiest. However, I have been told that screws will come out over time.

You feedback is appreciates.

Also, what headspacing, how is this done?

Does anyone know where to get someone to put the finish on it once it is done? I heard I can get the thing sand blasted and finished. What is the best finish for this?

Thanks!

grosser Vati · 07-15-2006, 11:39 PM

my FIRST ever build was a screw build AMD-65..i did not remove the barrel.

i did take my time when removing the old rivets and drilling & tapping for the screws.

i used red loc-tite to install the screws...and after maybe 1000 rnds fired...the screws are still solid !!!!

as far as Headspacing...i have built 8 AK kits...only one (the AMD-65) was checked for headspacing

every build has fired flawlessly....

KernelKrink · 07-16-2006, 12:27 AM

Homebuilders commonly use three methods of attaching the trunnions to the receiver shell:

1: Rivets. Factory method, works well, requires bbl removal and specialized tools to set the rivets.

2: Screws. Does not require bbl removal and the only tools required are a drill with bits and a couple taps. If screws and holes are degreased and red Loctite used, they do not loosen under normal use.

3: Welding. Some have had good results with this method, others have reported separations due to poor welding technique. If you are a good welder, this is a viable method.

Any of the above methods, when done properly, are more than strong enough for the job at hand.

beer jager · 07-16-2006, 02:17 PM

don't ruin a good polish kit w/ screws. IMO,..screws = hack.

do it right/correct the first time, and have a usefull gun you will be proud of.

Matte black KG Gunkote for the finish. Just spray it on, bake at 300 degrees for 1 hour. And you done w/ a factory finish.

Fred324 · 07-16-2006, 02:57 PM

When I built my first AK I did a screw build. I had limited tools and space. I have since evolved to rivet builds. The first build has since been upgraded to a rivet build. You can do it any way you feel comfortable and with a screw build you have to option to upgrade to rivets any time you feel you have the ability.

shootNcpa · 07-16-2006, 02:57 PM

Question - I drilled a little deep in one of the rivet holes in the front barrel trunion, it did not go all the way throw. Can I still use the barrel, or can this be fixed?

Should I really pull the barrel and do rivets?

Tapeo1 · 07-16-2006, 03:16 PM

For the life of me, I can not understand why people think doing a rivet build is more difficult than a screw build. My God, you only need a few more tools to do rivet build.

To remove barrel, use a $20 automotive pulley puller...

To reinstall the barrel, make yourself an all thread device. It cost me less than $5 to make one...

For the front trunnion rivets use a modified bolt cutter and a divot plate (Total cost was about $10)...

For the trigger guard rivets make a jig yourself outta some 1/4" steel plate (total cost was only a few bucks)...

While I'm sure that a properly done screw build will hold up just fine, comestically, it looks pretty lame IMO.

shootNcpa · 07-16-2006, 03:23 PM

I love those pictures, and it looks like a great system, the more I learn the more I want to do it right!

One last problem is the god damned pin holding the barrel in, it looks like a son of a bitch to get out!

P. fucken S. Sorry for the French!

AKer · 07-16-2006, 03:28 PM

no, a good sized mini sledge and a few brass drifts will knock that thing out in a few good whacks, then you just set it straight with a mallet, and knock it back in with said mini sledge and a couple pennys.

just make sure your vice is solid, if its wobly, it wont come out, becuase all the force will go into making it vibrate.

shootNcpa · 07-16-2006, 04:08 PM

So, a good drill press is worth its weight in gold. Knowledge on how to do this work correctly is Priceless! (Lets see Master Card put these projects on their commercials.) I purchased a drill press today from Home Depot. It has a laser on it for aliegning up what you are drilling. Before I got the press, I tried to remove a few rivets with a hand drill, that went SHITY! The press removed all the rivets no problems, clean. I did make on bo bo, I drilled a little to far in the front trunion and slighly into the barrel.

QUESTION: Rear trunion - the long rivet, I tried to drill half on one side and half on the other, for some reason I can not drill all the way through. Can I punch it out? Or what is the advice here?

AKdennis · 07-16-2006, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tapeo1

For the life of me, I can not understand why people think doing a rivet build is more difficult than a screw build. My God, you only need a few more tools to do rivet build.

To remove barrel, use a $20 automotive pulley puller...

To reinstall the barrel, make yourself an all thread device. It cost me less than $5 to make one...

For the front trunnion rivets use a modified bolt cutter and a divot plate (Total cost was about $10)...

For the trigger guard rivets make a jig yourself outta some 1/4" steel plate (total cost was only a few bucks)...

While I'm sure that a properly done screw build will hold up just fine, comestically, it looks pretty lame IMO.

very nice.

Tapeo1 · 07-16-2006, 05:11 PM

As far as removing the barrel pin goes, I've removed 7 Romy barrel pins with the items below with a strong vise (I have a 5" Harbor Freight) and a big hammer. I first use the two items on the left. I set the nut on one side of the barrel pin and the hex drive on the other. I carefully line things up in the vise and tighten down hard (but not too hard). I then take a big hammer... actually, I use a big hardwood mallet I have, and whack the side of the vise. I then get a loud pop sound meaning that the pin has been loosened. I then tighten up on the vise to push the pin out as far as I can with the two items on the left. I then use the two items on the right to push out the pin the rest of the way. This method hasn't failed me on 7 Romanians, 1 Yugo and 1 Polish. Hope that helps.

Note: I ground off the edges on the hex drives. They're 1/4" hex drives.

Tapeo1 · 07-16-2006, 05:13 PM

Removing the rear long rivets? Use cobalt drill bits in a drill press on the LOWEST speed setting. Be sure to stop often, remove metal shavings and add oil. Go slow and use oil.

Tapeo1 · 07-16-2006, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKdennis

very nice.

Thanks. Strange as it may seem, I enjoy making the tools to build AKs almost as much as building the AK itself.

my-rifle · 07-16-2006, 10:19 PM

Listen to Tapeo1. Do everything he says except use a lot of oil while drilling ;-) No just kidding. Use a LOT of oil while drilling. You'll know when to oil the bit, because the oil will come out of the hole you're drilling. I bought a $40 12-speed drill pres from Harbor Freight, and it's the tool I use most in my builds. I use titanium bits, and none has worn out yet. The cobalt ones are better but cost about 10 times as much.

Tapeo1 · 07-16-2006, 10:42 PM

Yep, I use that same $40 HF drill press. HF is a good friend to the home AK builder.

grosser Vati · 07-17-2006, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tapeo1

For the life of me, I can not understand why people think doing a rivet build is more difficult than a screw build. My God, you only need a few more tools to do rivet build.

i think that is what intimidates first time builders is the lack of tools to do the rivets

Tapeo1 · 07-17-2006, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grosser Vati

i think that is what intimidates first time builders is the lack of tools to do the rivets

Well, other than bolt cutter rivet squeezers, what more tools does one really need for rivets that you wouldn't need for a screw build? The long rear rivets can be done with a vise and two metal divot plates. Even for a screw build, one should really remove the barrel to remove the rivets in the front trunnion. How often do you hear about someone doing a screw build that has drilled into the barrel? I hear it all the time.

shootNcpa · 07-17-2006, 03:06 PM

Well, I did not remove the barrel when I drilled out my rivets, and I drilled in to the barrel.

It looks like I will remove the barrel to thread the trunion. The only thing keeping me from doing rivets is that I don't have the tools. It appears the rivet method is more complicated and I am not sure were to get the tools to squeeze the rivets. Someone said the rivet tool is only $10, but I don't see how that is the actual cost.

I did order screws and will need to buy the tools to thread the trunions, perhaps I should invest this cost into the rivet job instead. Or, perhaps I should do this one using screws and start another build using rivests?

Tapeo1 · 07-17-2006, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shootNcpa

Someone said the rivet tool is only $10, but I don't see how that is the actual cost.

You can pick up a pair of 24" bolt cutters from Harbor Freight Tools for around $9 on sale. Take an angle grinder to the jaws and make a pair of rivet squeezers in about 20 minutes. You can get an angle grinder at Harbor Freight for about $15.

shootNcpa · 07-20-2006, 05:42 PM

Beer JAger,

Where can I fing "Matte black KG Gunkote?"

Tapeo1 · 07-20-2006, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shootNcpa

Beer JAger,

Where can I fing "Matte black KG Gunkote?"

http://www.kgcoatings.com/gunkote.html

Google is your friend

shootNcpa · 07-23-2006, 06:07 PM

My threading die or what ever you want to call the fuck thing (actually two dies) broke, the 1/4, is stuck in side the rear trunion! These fucken things break easy. They work well, but when I put the screws in the trunion they did not go all the way in, so I tried to cut the thread deeper and "SNAP", it broke! Now I have a small part of the cutting bit in the trunion, any suggestions on getting this thing out?

07-15-2006, 06:48 PM	#1
shootNcpa New Member AKaholic #: 6217 Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 14	First Build - AK47 Polish Underfolder I enjoy firearms, shooting, cleaning, and just admiring all kinds. So, I have decided to build an AK-47. This is my first build, I have spent about three weeks looking all different kinds of AK web sites and gaining as much knowledge base as possible about building my very own AK. So, my problems - I don't know if I should use rivets or screws. I hear there are Pros and Cons on this one issue. So, my dilema is I don't have the tools to remove and replace the barrel. So, I thought screw will be easiest. However, I have been told that screws will come out over time. You feedback is appreciates. Also, what headspacing, how is this done? Does anyone know where to get someone to put the finish on it once it is done? I heard I can get the thing sand blasted and finished. What is the best finish for this? Thanks!

07-15-2006, 11:39 PM	#2
grosser Vati Member AKaholic #: 5170 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Race City USA Posts: 178	my FIRST ever build was a screw build AMD-65..i did not remove the barrel. i did take my time when removing the old rivets and drilling & tapping for the screws. i used red loc-tite to install the screws...and after maybe 1000 rnds fired...the screws are still solid !!!! as far as Headspacing...i have built 8 AK kits...only one (the AMD-65) was checked for headspacing every build has fired flawlessly.... Last edited by grosser Vati; 07-16-2006 at 01:46 AM.

07-16-2006, 02:57 PM	#5
Fred324 Senior Member AKaholic #: 3480 Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 510	When I built my first AK I did a screw build. I had limited tools and space. I have since evolved to rivet builds. The first build has since been upgraded to a rivet build. You can do it any way you feel comfortable and with a screw build you have to option to upgrade to rivets any time you feel you have the ability. __________________ "Place your clothes and weapons where you can find them in the dark." L. Long

07-17-2006, 03:06 PM	#19
shootNcpa New Member AKaholic #: 6217 Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 14	Well, I did not remove the barrel when I drilled out my rivets, and I drilled in to the barrel. It looks like I will remove the barrel to thread the trunion. The only thing keeping me from doing rivets is that I don't have the tools. It appears the rivet method is more complicated and I am not sure were to get the tools to squeeze the rivets. Someone said the rivet tool is only $10, but I don't see how that is the actual cost. I did order screws and will need to buy the tools to thread the trunions, perhaps I should invest this cost into the rivet job instead. Or, perhaps I should do this one using screws and start another build using rivests? Last edited by shootNcpa; 07-17-2006 at 03:12 PM.

07-16-2006, 12:27 AM	#3
KernelKrink Curio & Relic AKaholic #: 2036 Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 7,683	Homebuilders commonly use three methods of attaching the trunnions to the receiver shell: 1: Rivets. Factory method, works well, requires bbl removal and specialized tools to set the rivets. 2: Screws. Does not require bbl removal and the only tools required are a drill with bits and a couple taps. If screws and holes are degreased and red Loctite used, they do not loosen under normal use. 3: Welding. Some have had good results with this method, others have reported separations due to poor welding technique. If you are a good welder, this is a viable method. Any of the above methods, when done properly, are more than strong enough for the job at hand.

07-16-2006, 02:17 PM	#4
beer jager Banned AKaholic #: 1535 Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: germany Posts: 316	don't ruin a good polish kit w/ screws. IMO,..screws = hack. do it right/correct the first time, and have a usefull gun you will be proud of. Matte black KG Gunkote for the finish. Just spray it on, bake at 300 degrees for 1 hour. And you done w/ a factory finish.

07-16-2006, 03:16 PM	#7
Tapeo1 Senior Member AKaholic #: 4860 Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 605	For the life of me, I can not understand why people think doing a rivet build is more difficult than a screw build. My God, you only need a few more tools to do rivet build. To remove barrel, use a $20 automotive pulley puller... To reinstall the barrel, make yourself an all thread device. It cost me less than $5 to make one... For the front trunnion rivets use a modified bolt cutter and a divot plate (Total cost was about $10)... For the trigger guard rivets make a jig yourself outta some 1/4" steel plate (total cost was only a few bucks)... While I'm sure that a properly done screw build will hold up just fine, comestically, it looks pretty lame IMO.

07-16-2006, 03:23 PM	#8
shootNcpa New Member AKaholic #: 6217 Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 14	I love those pictures, and it looks like a great system, the more I learn the more I want to do it right! One last problem is the god damned pin holding the barrel in, it looks like a son of a bitch to get out! P. fucken S. Sorry for the French!

07-16-2006, 03:28 PM	#9
AKer Banned (Temp) AKaholic #: 5994 Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 506	no, a good sized mini sledge and a few brass drifts will knock that thing out in a few good whacks, then you just set it straight with a mallet, and knock it back in with said mini sledge and a couple pennys. just make sure your vice is solid, if its wobly, it wont come out, becuase all the force will go into making it vibrate.

07-16-2006, 04:08 PM	#10
shootNcpa New Member AKaholic #: 6217 Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 14	So, a good drill press is worth its weight in gold. Knowledge on how to do this work correctly is Priceless! (Lets see Master Card put these projects on their commercials.) I purchased a drill press today from Home Depot. It has a laser on it for aliegning up what you are drilling. Before I got the press, I tried to remove a few rivets with a hand drill, that went SHITY! The press removed all the rivets no problems, clean. I did make on bo bo, I drilled a little to far in the front trunion and slighly into the barrel. QUESTION: Rear trunion - the long rivet, I tried to drill half on one side and half on the other, for some reason I can not drill all the way through. Can I punch it out? Or what is the advice here?

07-16-2006, 05:11 PM	#12
Tapeo1 Senior Member AKaholic #: 4860 Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 605	As far as removing the barrel pin goes, I've removed 7 Romy barrel pins with the items below with a strong vise (I have a 5" Harbor Freight) and a big hammer. I first use the two items on the left. I set the nut on one side of the barrel pin and the hex drive on the other. I carefully line things up in the vise and tighten down hard (but not too hard). I then take a big hammer... actually, I use a big hardwood mallet I have, and whack the side of the vise. I then get a loud pop sound meaning that the pin has been loosened. I then tighten up on the vise to push the pin out as far as I can with the two items on the left. I then use the two items on the right to push out the pin the rest of the way. This method hasn't failed me on 7 Romanians, 1 Yugo and 1 Polish. Hope that helps. Note: I ground off the edges on the hex drives. They're 1/4" hex drives.

07-16-2006, 05:13 PM	#13
Tapeo1 Senior Member AKaholic #: 4860 Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 605	Removing the rear long rivets? Use cobalt drill bits in a drill press on the LOWEST speed setting. Be sure to stop often, remove metal shavings and add oil. Go slow and use oil.

07-16-2006, 10:19 PM	#15
my-rifle Chilling like a quarter after five. Gold Contributor AKaholic #: 6179 Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: New Orleans Posts: 6,071	Listen to Tapeo1. Do everything he says except use a lot of oil while drilling ;-) No just kidding. Use a LOT of oil while drilling. You'll know when to oil the bit, because the oil will come out of the hole you're drilling. I bought a $40 12-speed drill pres from Harbor Freight, and it's the tool I use most in my builds. I use titanium bits, and none has worn out yet. The cobalt ones are better but cost about 10 times as much.

07-16-2006, 10:42 PM	#16
Tapeo1 Senior Member AKaholic #: 4860 Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 605	Yep, I use that same $40 HF drill press. HF is a good friend to the home AK builder.

07-20-2006, 05:42 PM	#21
shootNcpa New Member AKaholic #: 6217 Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 14	Beer JAger, Where can I fing "Matte black KG Gunkote?"

07-23-2006, 06:07 PM	#23
shootNcpa New Member AKaholic #: 6217 Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 14	My threading die or what ever you want to call the fuck thing (actually two dies) broke, the 1/4, is stuck in side the rear trunion! These fucken things break easy. They work well, but when I put the screws in the trunion they did not go all the way in, so I tried to cut the thread deeper and "SNAP", it broke! Now I have a small part of the cutting bit in the trunion, any suggestions on getting this thing out?

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