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Old 07-24-2012, 11:13 PM   #1
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Default Steel core 7.62x39 ammo

Is there any out there? If so who made it and where can I get it?
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Old 07-24-2012, 11:18 PM   #2
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There's a bunch of Chinese steel core from the '80's and early '90s out there. No shop can sell it, but it always seems to be for sale by individuals.

It's not armor piercing, though.
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Old 07-24-2012, 11:19 PM   #3
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Is there any out there? If so who made it and where can I get it?
1) Yes, Plenty

2) All the ComBloc military makers made/make Steel core (MILD steel core, like coat hanger wire, NOT hard AP type steel core)

3) Google it, or try GunBroker, Auction Arms or any gun/ammo auction site as it is no longer imported into the USA.
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Old 07-24-2012, 11:35 PM   #4
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i see the old chinese stuff at about every other show i go to, normaly a little above what im willing to pay for it though.
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Old 07-24-2012, 11:35 PM   #5
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Which steel core 7.62x39 ammo has the biggest and/or hardest steel core? What is the best steel core AK ammo available?

Here is some 7.62x54 steel core heavy ball I just got, look at the pics in the auction of the cores (there is a comparison pic between the cores of steel core light ball and steel core heavy ball):

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=296765065
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Old 07-24-2012, 11:39 PM   #6
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Some bubba type guy at a flea market was selling Winchester head stamped black tipped 7.62x39.

It attracted a magnet, and he told me it was AP. I realize that steel jacketed or mild steel core will attract magnets, so the magnet test does not always indicate AP.

He was a bit on the rude side, he wanted too much for them, and the casings had some light corrosion. The Winchester head stamps also threw me off. I doubt they (Winchester) ever made AP AK ammo. I bet he reloaded some 7.62 and painted on black tips. I don't want to spend that type of money on something that could be junk or potentially dangerous to my safety, or the condition of my AKs.

He wanted something like $25 for 20 rounds. No thanks. I don't trust strange ammo in my guns.
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Old 07-24-2012, 11:47 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by nalioth View Post
There's a bunch of Chinese steel core from the '80's and early '90s out there. No shop can sell it, but it always seems to be for sale by individuals.

It's not armor piercing, though.
I want the ammo that has the best chances of being able to make it through a bullet proof vest or through light armor. You know, the good stuff...
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Old 07-24-2012, 11:49 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by TheGreek! View Post
the good stuff...
Modern Russian FMJ AK ammo will penetrate the half inch I-beam I shoot at with two rounds in the same spot.

Actual AP would be nice though. I wonder if you could buy the more available 30 06 black tipped AP, pull the bullets and reload or have someone else reload them in 7.62x39 brass?
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Old 07-24-2012, 11:59 PM   #9
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It is the old china copper washed stuff. I have saved tons of it. Tell you the truth you live in a free state buy some API 762x39 iv seen it at many gun shows but not cheap. Go to the SAR show in DEC look for the Silver Tip 762x39




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Old 07-25-2012, 12:00 AM   #10
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Greek, while not true "AP" rounds, I know for a fact {by experiment} that both surplus and commercial Chinese steel core will penetrate the following:

Kevlar vests up to Level III; breaks or damages plates
PAGST helmets
.5"-1" fiberglass {after 12" pulp wood}
24"+ pulp wood
10"+ plywood
1"+ aluminum
etc...

Chinese will be the easiest to find; East German surplus {highly corrosive} is arguably the best, all around. In my experienced opinion...
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Old 07-25-2012, 12:01 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by WTSGDYBBR View Post
Cool ammo, and I like how the bullets match the casing. But I do not think that it is AP technically if it is mild steel core.
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Old 07-25-2012, 12:02 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Sweersa View Post
Actual AP would be nice though. I wonder if you could buy the more available 30 06 black tipped AP, pull the bullets and reload or have someone else reload them in 7.62x39 brass?
Sure, if you want to screw up your guns.

The bullet diameters are different (even though they're both "30 cal")
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Old 07-25-2012, 12:03 AM   #13
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It is 100% steel core not AP. I have AP in 8mm,30-06,308 its all black tipped .



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Originally Posted by Sweersa View Post
Cool ammo, and I like how the bullets match the casing. But I do not think that it is AP technically if it is mild steel core.
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Old 07-25-2012, 12:04 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by nalioth View Post
Sure, if you want to screw up your guns.

The bullet diameters are different (even though they're both "30 cal")
Another reason I'm glad I didn't buy Bubba's Winchester head stamped black tipped AK ammo at the flea market.
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Old 07-25-2012, 12:07 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by nalioth View Post
Sure, if you want to screw up your guns.

The bullet diameters are different (even though they're both "30 cal")
Bullshit, nalioth. The smaller diameter bullet won't "screw up" his guns. They just won't stabilize enough to be effective, or be very accurate. Not to mention the heavier bullet won't generate the velocity needed to be worth the effort, due to case volume limitations.
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Old 07-25-2012, 12:07 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by ThunderGod View Post
Greek, while not true "AP" rounds, I know for a fact {by experiment} that both surplus and commercial Chinese steel core will penetrate the following:

Kevlar vests up to Level III; breaks or damages plates
PAGST helmets
.5"-1" fiberglass {after 12" pulp wood}
24"+ pulp wood
10"+ plywood
1"+ aluminum
etc...

Chinese will be the easiest to find; East German surplus {highly corrosive} is arguably the best, all around. In my experienced opinion...

How do ya tell the chinese steel core from the chinese lead core ammo? Same thing with the East german ammo, how do ya tell the steel core from the lead core?
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Old 07-25-2012, 12:07 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WTSGDYBBR View Post
It is 100% steel core not AP. I have AP in 8mm,30-06,308 its all black tipped .
Nice stash! I'd love to get my hands on some black tipped 5.56x45 M995 AP. Even just a handful of it. I hear it's extremely hard to find though, even for guys in the military. I think it is/was only issued on links for the SAW.
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Old 07-25-2012, 12:09 AM   #18
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http://www.dave-cushman.net/shot/762x39_cartridge.html

Here geek everything you ever wanted to know.



Quote:
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How do ya tell the chinese steel core from the chinese lead core ammo? Same thing with the East german ammo, how do ya tell the steel core from the lead core?
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Old 07-25-2012, 12:14 AM   #19
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What WTSGD... posted...

The only caveat I must add: all of my 7.62x39mm ammo tests were performed with 20" barreled Chinese SKSs.
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Old 07-25-2012, 12:32 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderGod View Post
Greek, while not true "AP" rounds, I know for a fact {by experiment} that both surplus and commercial Chinese steel core will penetrate the following:

Kevlar vests up to Level III; breaks or damages plates
PAGST helmets
.5"-1" fiberglass {after 12" pulp wood}
24"+ pulp wood
10"+ plywood
1"+ aluminum
etc...

Chinese will be the easiest to find; East German surplus {highly corrosive} is arguably the best, all around. In my experienced opinion...
What kind of damage can this stuff do?:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=296765065

Its not 7.62x39 ammo of course but I do have some Mosins, a PSL, and a couple of Browning 1919's that can can use it.
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Old 07-25-2012, 01:06 PM   #21
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How do ya tell the chinese steel core from the chinese lead core ammo? Same thing with the East german ammo, how do ya tell the steel core from the lead core?
Disect it. Bite it with the wire cutter part of a pair of pliers. If it cuts it's lead. You will probably have to cut through some copper and lead layers to get to the core. Then try and cut the core and put a magnet to it. This should tell you plenty about the guts.
You could also melt the lead off in a throw away pan. about 300 degrees is your goal.
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Old 07-25-2012, 04:27 PM   #22
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Greek, that stuff is roughly "equivalent" to .30-06/7.62x51 black tip, IIRC. It may not have as hard a core as carbide USGI, though. ammolab will know, for sure, and correct me if I'm wrong.
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Old 07-25-2012, 05:06 PM   #23
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Greek, that stuff is roughly "equivalent" to .30-06/7.62x51 black tip, IIRC. It may not have as hard a core as carbide USGI, though. ammolab will know, for sure, and correct me if I'm wrong.
having shot mill black tip AP lots, the 7.62x54r mild steel core,
will not do teh same penitration and 30 06 or 308 AP
the 54r went though three 1/8" plates and lodged in the 4th that was stacked like plate armor (still have it here somewhere i think not sure i would have to look for it in the shed)

while mill AP 308 and 30-06 went through 1" like butter
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Old 07-25-2012, 05:19 PM   #24
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While this may not be worth anything, the norinco steel core i have went though a .25 steel plate at 100 yds.

The norinco steel core i have says "steel core" right on the box.
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Old 07-25-2012, 05:26 PM   #25
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While this may not be worth anything, the norinco steel core i have went though a .25 steel plate at 100 yds.

The norinco steel core i have says "steel core" right on the box.
"Steel plate" isn't "armor plate".

The Chinese (and other commies) use steel alloys in their ammo production because it's cheaper and easier to work with than traditional materials.

The steel used as bullet cores is a soft alloy (similar to lead)
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Old 07-25-2012, 05:40 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by nalioth View Post
"Steel plate" isn't "armor plate".

The Chinese (and other commies) use steel alloys in their ammo production because it's cheaper and easier to work with than traditional materials.

The steel used as bullet cores is a soft alloy (similar to lead)
My mistake i said .25" but meant .50"

Yea, i know "steel plate" and "armor plate" are not the same, that's why i said this may not be worth much.

The 30-06 had trouble making it though the same plate while the 7.62x39 made it look like a punch. Seemed pretty cool anyway.
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Old 07-25-2012, 10:00 PM   #27
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Default steel core & lead




There was a thread a year or so back about this.

I doubt Chinese steel core will completely penetrate 1/2" mild steel at 100 but hell I'm wrong every day of my life.

Here is a penetration test of a few different 7.62X39 at about 12 yds (from behind a barrier).

I would have to go back to see whats what.
The top left and 3rd from the right are German plastic cored.
The farthest right was Egyptian lead core.
I'm pretty sure the middle left is a Chinese steel core.
The table rounds should match the penetrations

Doesn't the Chinese steel core have a boat tail base?

I'll see if I can come up with some more info. http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80536


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Old 07-25-2012, 10:20 PM   #28
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Steelcore vs lead core test here>>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOxQSvkm9ss

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Old 07-25-2012, 10:45 PM   #29
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Steelcore vs lead core test here>>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CWwYMPLM6s
This is what comes up when ya click on the link:

"This video has been removed by the user. Sorry about that."
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Old 07-25-2012, 11:30 PM   #30
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Greek, that stuff is roughly "equivalent" to .30-06/7.62x51 black tip, IIRC. It may not have as hard a core as carbide USGI, though. ammolab will know, for sure, and correct me if I'm wrong.
The Hungarian 7.62x54R Steel core Heavy Ball is just that, "Ball ammo". It is a heavy projectile, and it will give very good penetration, but it isn't going to measure up to true hardened core stuff like 30-06 M2 AP.

"carbide cores (tungsten)" are quite rare in small arms AP projectiles. There are some now loaded in 7.62 and 5.56 enhanced penetration AP, but they are SO EXPENSIVE that there is little use of this ammo in general combat issue. Other than some early WW2 era German 8mm AP, you are going to find hard tool steel in all of your 30-06 and similar caliber AP ammo.
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Old 07-25-2012, 11:37 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by TheGreek! View Post
This is what comes up when ya click on the link:

"This video has been removed by the user. Sorry about that."
OK., HERE IT IS>>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOxQSvkm9ss

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Old 07-26-2012, 12:38 AM   #32
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Get the API Round geek
Armor Piercing Incendiary
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Old 07-26-2012, 12:47 AM   #33
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Where can I get it? Got a link to some for sale? The only API on gobroker is .50 BMG stuff.
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Old 07-26-2012, 12:52 AM   #34
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Where can I get it? Got a link to some for sale? The only API on gobroker is .50 BMG stuff.


PHOENIX AZ SARS show in the first of DEC. If I can make the drive from LA you can from AZ.
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Old 07-26-2012, 05:07 AM   #35
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There was a thread a year or so back about this.

I doubt Chinese steel core will completely penetrate 1/2" mild steel at 100 but hell I'm wrong every day of my life.

Here is a penetration test of a few different 7.62X39 at about 12 yds (from behind a barrier).

I would have to go back to see whats what.
The top left and 3rd from the right are German plastic cored.
The farthest right was Egyptian lead core.
I'm pretty sure the middle left is a Chinese steel core.
The table rounds should match the penetrations

Doesn't the Chinese steel core have a boat tail base?

I'll see if I can come up with some more info. http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80536


Well, if thats .50", in the picture, it was at least half that!!

We also put it though some good cross ties and at least an 8" hard wood

But this was almost 20 years ago so my memory might be off.
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