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Old 06-08-2012, 07:43 PM   #36
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There is no law.

It's just a command.

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Old 06-08-2012, 07:57 PM   #37
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When the ATF come buy and asked about the 2 AK did they ask to come in ?
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Old 06-08-2012, 08:21 PM   #38
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I once purchased two guns in the same day at the same shop in Texas city...It took several weeks for me to get cleared and take the guns home. I was kinda pissed but now I know not to buy two guns in the same day. I went in there to get a hammerless .38 and I looked up and saw an slr107F and I just HAD to have it. It was my first AK (joy)... Never buy two guns at the same time.... You're asking for it I guess even though I think it's bullshit
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Old 06-08-2012, 08:27 PM   #39
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So when ATF does this sort of thing I assume they would really need a warrant to come in a start dumping drawers but what if you have a C&R? Did you forfiet your right as a civilian to get it?
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Old 06-08-2012, 08:28 PM   #40
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border state. making sure you're not arming the cartels (like ATF did)
Yep. While in concept you'd like to say something like:

"Unlike the BATF I don't walk guns across the border."

Or

"Isn't there a few thousand AKs & AR 15s that you guys had sold to the cartels that you need to find first"....

Don't. Do. It.

Best thing to to is say, Yes, I do still have them still. If they want to see, pull them out of the gun safe and show them.

Be polite, cooperate, and it will be over fast.

Don't tell them to get a search warrant, cause if they do... they don't have to be nice with the search and you'll be in handcuffs during it.(Also a great way to have the family dog(s) shot). I've been handcuffed by the BATF during a search once for 2 1/2 hours... No fun.

They will bring the local PD along and maybe like in my case tip off the local news channel so they can set up the tv cameras and roll film. No fun.

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Old 06-08-2012, 08:31 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by jgon281 View Post
I once purchased two guns in the same day at the same shop in Texas city...It took several weeks for me to get cleared and take the guns home. I was kinda pissed but now I know not to buy two guns in the same day. I went in there to get a hammerless .38 and I looked up and saw an slr107F and I just HAD to have it. It was my first AK (joy)... Never buy two guns at the same time.... You're asking for it I guess even though I think it's bullshit
As described, your purchase didn't trip any triggers.

You have to purchase TWO handguns or TWO long guns at the same time to trigger the federal reporting requirement (not one of each).

You're just a bad boy somewhere else
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Old 06-08-2012, 09:21 PM   #42
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Woke up to two ATF agents knocking on my door, asking if i have recently bought two Ak-47's. Said it was weird that someone bought two of the exact same AK. They wanted to make sure o still had them and wasnt doing anything illegally. Has this ever hapend to anyone? Or have you evee heard of this?
Meanwhile the real criminals, ex-cons with real machine guns, were dealing dope, selling women, killing rivals and smuggling illegals who were carrying guns and drugs. Welcome to the new America where they ask the good folks for their papers while the bad guys do as they please.
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Old 06-08-2012, 09:23 PM   #43
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Meanwhile the real criminals, ex-cons with real machine guns, were dealing dope, selling women, killing rivals and smuggling illegals who were carrying guns and drugs. Welcome to the new America where they ask the good folks for their papers while the bad guys do as they please.

Its safer than a shoot out with bad guys. It's become their focus post Waco...
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Old 06-08-2012, 11:14 PM   #44
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Yep. While in concept you'd like to say something like:

"Unlike the BATF I don't walk guns across the border."

Or

"Isn't there a few thousand AKs & AR 15s that you guys had sold to the cartels that you need to find first"....

Don't. Do. It.

Best thing to to is say, Yes, I do still have them still. If they want to see, pull them out of the gun safe and show them.

Be polite, cooperate, and it will be over fast.

Don't tell them to get a search warrant, cause if they do... they don't have to be nice with the search and you'll be in handcuffs during it.(Also a great way to have the family dog(s) shot). I've been handcuffed by the BATF during a search once for 2 1/2 hours... No fun.

They will bring the local PD along and maybe like in my case tip off the local news channel so they can set up the tv cameras and roll film. No fun.

That is until they start being greeted by 7.62 everytime they pull their silly leverage handle.
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Old 06-09-2012, 12:08 AM   #45
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Never heard of that happening...even in AZ. My FFL has had visits from the local field office over the years, checking to see if his books are correct. My name is in the books several times over, logged purchasing many "evil" firearms over the years. I have yet to get a visit from the gestapo.
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Old 06-09-2012, 12:44 AM   #46
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Never heard of that happening...even in AZ. My FFL has had visits from the local field office over the years, checking to see if his books are correct. My name is in the books several times over, logged purchasing many "evil" firearms over the years. I have yet to get a visit from the gestapo.
Its new... post Fast & Furious as it's seems a number of ARs and AKs were sold in the US at gun stores and went over the border.... Really bad straw buyer problem... Gun stores sold up to 50 guns at a time... oh wait, that WAS Fast & Furious...
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Old 06-09-2012, 12:55 AM   #47
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Quick question, there is no tracking at gun shows, correct?
I am getting back into firearms; my AK was my favorite in my stable before the post marriage sell-off. We have shows frequently in AZ and the last one I went to (early 90s) was not tracked by federalies. Too good to hope for such freedom nowadays?
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Old 06-09-2012, 12:58 AM   #48
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Quick question, there is no tracking at gun shows, correct?
I am getting back into firearms; my AK was my favorite in my stable before the post marriage sell-off. We have shows frequently in AZ and the last one I went to (early 90s) was not tracked by federalies. Too good to hope for such freedom nowadays?
Define "tracking".
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Old 06-09-2012, 01:00 AM   #49
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Yep. While in concept you'd like to say something like:

"Unlike the BATF I don't walk guns across the border."

Or

"Isn't there a few thousand AKs & AR 15s that you guys had sold to the cartels that you need to find first"....

Don't. Do. It.

Best thing to to is say, Yes, I do still have them still. If they want to see, pull them out of the gun safe and show them.

Be polite, cooperate, and it will be over fast.

Don't tell them to get a search warrant, cause if they do... they don't have to be nice with the search and you'll be in handcuffs during it.(Also a great way to have the family dog(s) shot). I've been handcuffed by the BATF during a search once for 2 1/2 hours... No fun.

They will bring the local PD along and maybe like in my case tip off the local news channel so they can set up the tv cameras and roll film. No fun.

That sounds like it was a lot of fun (no thanks), I just took the polite way out the two times that the ATF paid me a visit and let them look through my stuff and answered all their questions. I wasnt worried because I dont have anything illegal, I have nothing to hide. Hopefully after the second time around they got the message that I'm not the droid they're looking for. They need to investigate their boss (Holder) instead, they'll find all kinds of illegal gun stuff going on with him....
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Old 06-09-2012, 01:01 AM   #50
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I think the BATF would be pleasantly surprised if the worked with gun owners and not against them.
a polite, non-threatening personal visit, treating us like citizens and human beings, is working with us gun owners.
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Old 06-09-2012, 01:21 AM   #51
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What does a "criminal" look like?

Kenneth Lay and Jeff Skilling at Enron HQ

The major problem with this is "Who defines what "criminal" means?"

We're already on a siippery slope in that regard.
Ironically, while kenneth lay and his ilk are monumental shitbags, they may not have thought they were acting criminally. OTOH, gunrunners probably do know they are criminals. so when the po-po comes knocking, and ask about the guns, the gunrunner, if guilty, will probably look guilty, snd the ATF will investigate further. the OP probably had a "WTF did I do?" look on his face, like an innocent person would. so the ATF left him alone.


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I also think you need to rethink your stance (you sound like "one of them")
I appreciate the comment, but rest assured, I am not one of "them." the police should be less militarized, and more community-oriented, like they used to be.

waco is a useful example, it was over weapons. instead of having the local LEO just knock on koresh's front door, and asking about the guns in question (which had happened a few times before), the feds turned it into a military operation. they should have politely knocked on his door, and resolved the issue like civilized people.
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Old 06-09-2012, 05:13 AM   #52
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I would be very tempted to ask them how "Operation Fast and Furious" was working out, but of course it would not be a good idea, yukedy, yuk!
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Old 06-09-2012, 06:27 AM   #53
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How long between purchase and ATF visit?
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Old 06-09-2012, 06:36 AM   #54
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Well so much for my idea of purchasing multiple AK's for investment purchases. I guess it can still be done but one every month or two. Now if you start selling multiple of guns, even using a FFL, it will still probably get you a visit. If you're selling say 2 a month, they want you to have your FFL license. If you sell w/o FFL dealer and they're in your name and some bad shit goes down and they are still in your name, you'd likely go to jail or end up with probation the first time and jail the second time if you were stupid enough to continue.
I just discussed this with my bud of 44 years and he said, if you want, buy one every couple months. You'd have to sell them off, slowly over several years, if you were looking for an investment. Since I'm 59, it sqaushes my short term investment idea but still in 5 years the run of the mill stamped WASR AK's, could easily be approaching $1K p/rifle. As long as you use a FFL dealers you could barter for something you want and even make more money p/weapon. Sounds like it's just not worth the potential hassel. So just purchase what you're going to keep for your personal collection. I don't know if purchases of large amounts of ammo, would get you a visit from BATF agent?
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Old 06-09-2012, 08:02 AM   #55
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In past years, if I had the money and the opportunity to purchase two (or more) of a specific AK variant, then I did so. My reasoning then and now, is that if I have the ability to purchase exactly the same model rifles, several of them, then I will have exact matching spare parts. There for I have two rifles in each caliber and specific rifle type (and sometimes more). That is the only reason. The Mexicans smuggle in firearms from Europe, Asia (China), and else where, and if they had an ounce of sence among the lot would have long ago set up operations to build their own guns since they have the resources. Hell, they have been having submarines built for many years now. Tell me that building an AK is more complicated than building all the components of an Oscean going crude submarine. Or for that matter building crude firearms of various designs. The Mexican cartels also get some guns from the Mexican Government, and from countries near Mexico which have hugh stockpiles of American made M-16's and ammo and M-60 machine guns, and these countries thru the right contacts have sold quantities of these arms also to the Cartels - one of the reasons that the Mexicans say that a percentage of these guns originated in the US. Well a certain percentage did - thru military sales to Honduras, Guatemala, and other near by Central American countries, courtesy of the US Government and its own arms dealers. And of course there is Holder and the FBI and ATF under "Fast and Fourious". Some of the agents must feel like fools or water boys, as most of them must be aware of the farce, smoke and mirrors involved in the "border control" of US arms to Mexico, such as it may be.
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Old 06-09-2012, 09:22 AM   #56
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When the ATF come buy and asked about the 2 AK did they ask to come in ?
Yes they asked to come in, I told them no thanks. The guys were actuly really cool. Didnt give me a hard time at all. I asked them If I had to show them the guns they said no but they could get a warrent If they thought something was going on. I showed them the guns they didnt even touch them just said thanx and left.
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Old 06-09-2012, 10:32 AM   #57
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Never heard of that happening...even in AZ. My FFL has had visits from the local field office over the years, checking to see if his books are correct. My name is in the books several times over, logged purchasing many "evil" firearms over the years. I have yet to get a visit from the gestapo.
Yep. Me too. I bought 19 CZ-82s once, and didn't hear a word from the ATF. Since then I sold all except three, but on several other occasions I bought multiple guns and didn't get a call. On the other hand the guns were mostly C&R guns, and I'm a licensed dealer. Maybe that had something to do with it. The ATF here is pretty cool though as is the local sheriff.
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Old 06-09-2012, 11:48 AM   #58
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If you have nothing to hide, just show them the merchandise. I don't know why everything with the ATF needs to be an all or nothing situation. I bet when the water meterman comes to read the meter you let him in.

Its a job, someone has to do it.
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Old 06-09-2012, 01:12 PM   #59
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Define "tracking".
By tracking I meant da gubment watching transactions.
I'm guessing no more walking up to a folding table with a pocketful of cash and doing business as a private (and free) party. No government ID required.

Like I mentioned, its been a while for me, nearly 20 years actually.
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Old 06-09-2012, 01:27 PM   #60
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Define "tracking".
By tracking I meant da gubment watching transactions.
I'm guessing no more walking up to a folding table with a pocketful of cash and doing business as a private (and free) party. No government ID required.

Like I mentioned, its been a while for me, nearly 20 years actually.
When last I looked, cash sales between citizens were still legal in the free states.

Since 1968, you've never been able to walk up to a table with a pocketful of cash and done business with a licensed dealer in a private transaction for a firearm.
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Old 06-09-2012, 02:26 PM   #61
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Yea it just happened to a Floridian, a couple weeks back. Bought five guns at a gun show, 2 agents knocked on his door within days and asked to see them.
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Old 06-09-2012, 03:03 PM   #62
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If you have nothing to hide, just show them the merchandise. I don't know why everything with the ATF needs to be an all or nothing situation. I bet when the water meterman comes to read the meter you let him in.

Its a job, someone has to do it.
Uh no. I understand it's a job but it's also one that carries the power to deprive someone of their liberty while upholding what should be not a law but is! Meter reader is not so empowered.

Also the "I've got nothing to hide" argument isn't a good position. I can have nothing to hide but still want every possible obstacle to prevent the ease of any authority who is just "doing his job".
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Old 06-09-2012, 03:05 PM   #63
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"If you have nothing to hide, just show them the merchandise. I don't know why everything with the ATF needs to be an all or nothing situation."

You mean besides the fact that you're being hassled by the Feds for doing nothing wrong or illegal?

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Old 06-09-2012, 03:11 PM   #64
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I just let them look through my stuff ..
Yep, just like you'll hand over what ever they want when they come calling.

Coward!!!
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Old 06-09-2012, 03:19 PM   #65
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They werent coming to take my guns, they came because I bought a lot of them in a short period of time and wanted to make sure that I still had them all because I live so close to the border. If they had come to take them I wouldnt be here right now, I'd be on the run for shooting some ATF agents...
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Old 06-09-2012, 03:20 PM   #66
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I have had FBI agent call me before. about 6 hours of ordering 5k bulk of ammo, and asking me what I was going to do with it. I told her "I use alot of ammo Target practicing". It is crazy how they are so nosey
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Old 06-09-2012, 03:37 PM   #67
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PayPal has called me a few times. lol My life is not as exciting as some of you guys.
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Old 06-09-2012, 04:00 PM   #68
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Just be good little boys when the government comes to look at your guns, be polite and cordial and they'll go away happy if you're not doing anything illegal because if you dont let them see what they want to see they WILL be back and the second visit could become very costly...


Bide your time and take solace in the day thats coming, the day when we collapse under the weight of our communism, the day that TSHTF....


When TSHTF we WILL have our day of retribution on our oppressors, have no doubts about that....


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Old 06-09-2012, 04:08 PM   #69
veprk5.45
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PayPal has called me a few times. lol My life is not as exciting as some of you guys.
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Old 06-09-2012, 04:13 PM   #70
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Only in Az or Tx.. U a mexico runner sir?
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These tards have been letting a lot of lead fly in front of my house. Two vehicles shooting at each other like negroid jousters aboard hoopty steeds.
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