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Old 05-26-2012, 06:09 PM   #1
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Default AK Builder has 80% Polish prebent new receiver blanks and special drilling fixtures.

AK Builder has new 80% Polish prebent receiver blanks and special drilling fixtures. No flat bending jig required.


http://ak-builder.com/
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Old 05-26-2012, 06:14 PM   #2
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Nice item. Glad Curt is ontop of things....hopefully he is gettin geared up for the 74 prebents, that have been discussed.
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Old 05-26-2012, 06:28 PM   #3
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Nice item. Glad Curt is ontop of things....hopefully he is gettin geared up for the 74 prebents, that have been discussed.
The drill fixture would work on the 74 prebents wouldnt it?
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Old 05-26-2012, 06:58 PM   #4
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I was just getting ready to post about this. 5 friends and me bought blanks from copes sounds like we need to split the cost and save us some time drilling.
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Old 05-26-2012, 07:16 PM   #5
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Are these heat treated? The standard flats are nice but reaaly soft; it would be nice to have another option that ddnt require a heat treat oven.
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Old 05-26-2012, 07:34 PM   #6
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Are these heat treated? The standard flats are nice but reaaly soft; it would be nice to have another option that ddnt require a heat treat oven.
No on the heat treatment....the Polish Blanks are weapons grade 4130.

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Old 05-26-2012, 08:00 PM   #7
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Maybe Curtis will start making and selling his own prebents. That would be an instant hit!
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Old 05-26-2012, 08:05 PM   #8
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Maybe Curtis will start making and selling his own prebents. That would be an instant hit!
Can't be drilled though.
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Old 05-26-2012, 08:19 PM   #9
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That's not what I meant. He could offer drilled flats or non drilled and prebent. It would appeal to a wider range of builders. Some may have a preference for one versus another depending on their building skill and comfort level.

Drilling with one of those slick jigs he came up with seems like a piece of cake more precise and a cleaner finished product although I have not tried it.

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Old 05-26-2012, 08:40 PM   #10
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That's a neat looking fixture.

hell, you could finish one of these with just a spot welder and a cheap drill press. (and maybe a map gas torch for heat treating)

More options for the home builder is always a good thing.
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Old 05-26-2012, 08:43 PM   #11
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Just think Curtis could offer country correct selector stops and lettering you know Russian, Romanian or the other standard ones. He could even put that little dimple near the selector stop. Maybe even the evil "Y". Just a thought. Curtis please let us know how it sounds.
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Old 05-26-2012, 09:10 PM   #12
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Just think Curtis could offer country correct selector stops and lettering you know Russian, Romanian or the other standard ones. He could even put that little dimple near the selector stop. Maybe even the evil "Y". Just a thought. Curtis please let us know how it sounds.
Any reason he could not do this with the flats? Or would that bring them past 80%?
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Old 05-26-2012, 10:43 PM   #13
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Price is good too. For 35 he includes the rails and the center support, which would cost 16 bucks if you bought them from him seperately. So 19 bucks for the bent receiver.

Just for fun, lets figure out the "benefit" of going this route compared with ak builder flats and the stamping die he sells.

Both have to be heat treaded, and the axis pin holes have to be drilled/reamed on both. So that is a wash. Also the trunnion holes have to be drilled on all of the flats save for the regular 47 flat with trun holes. I prefer to drill my own trun holes so I will also consider that a wash. So a drill press of some sort is required for both, however I know you can "get away with" using a hand drill to finish a bent flat. Drill press is a multi use tool as well, so I will not consider it in my calculations either.

You do need a press to use the stamping die, however you also "need" a press to get the barrel out, and the barrel pin. Even if you have other methods to do those operations a press is a great tool to have and will do alot more than just one specialized operation. I will do the numbers both ways on the flats.

So to do one receiver:

Polish prebent $34.95 + jig $69.95 = $104.90

Flat $19.95 + stamping die $169.95 = $189.90

Above + 12ton HF press $119.99 = $309.89

So it is much more economical to buy the prebent and jig if you plan to do one receiver.

Cutis mentions that the jig is good to do "several" receivers. Lets figure 5 and see what the numbers looks like:

5 Polish prebent $174.75 + jig $69.95 = $244.70

5 Flat $99.75 + stamping die $169.95 = $269.70

Above + 12ton HF press $119.99 = $389.69

So still cheaper to go with the prebent, especially if you do not have a press.

So how about we save that if the user is careful he can get 10 of the prebents done with one of the jigs. I figure it is possible if you just use the jig as a guide and properly use a drill press or mill to align the cutting bits.

10 Polish prebent $340.95 + jig $69.95 = $410.90

10 Flat $199.95 + stamping die $169.95 = $369.90

Above + 12ton HF press $119.99 = $489.89

So if you have a press the stamping die and flats are the way to go, and if you do not there is less than 80 dollars difference to "invest" in a press.

Plus I never see the the ak builder stamping die wearing out. My buddies and I went in on one and have done 20 or so receviers, and the finish has not worn off yet. It is very well made. Plus for another 60-70bucks you can buy the center section to do 1.5mm receivers.

So for the casual ak enthusiast that wants to build a handful of kits the prebent looks like the best bet. For a more serious "advanced home hobbyist" (favorite saying of my retired Lt Colonel buddy!) or a group, the stamping die and a press would be a much better investment.
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Old 05-27-2012, 06:22 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by jdindadell View Post
Price is good too. For 35 he includes the rails and the center support, which would cost 16 bucks if you bought them from him seperately. So 19 bucks for the bent receiver.

Just for fun, lets figure out the "benefit" of going this route compared with ak builder flats and the stamping die he sells.

Both have to be heat treaded, and the axis pin holes have to be drilled/reamed on both. So that is a wash. Also the trunnion holes have to be drilled on all of the flats save for the regular 47 flat with trun holes. I prefer to drill my own trun holes so I will also consider that a wash. So a drill press of some sort is required for both, however I know you can "get away with" using a hand drill to finish a bent flat. Drill press is a multi use tool as well, so I will not consider it in my calculations either.

You do need a press to use the stamping die, however you also "need" a press to get the barrel out, and the barrel pin. Even if you have other methods to do those operations a press is a great tool to have and will do alot more than just one specialized operation. I will do the numbers both ways on the flats.

So to do one receiver:

Polish prebent $34.95 + jig $69.95 = $104.90

Flat $19.95 + stamping die $169.95 = $189.90

Above + 12ton HF press $119.99 = $309.89

So it is much more economical to buy the prebent and jig if you plan to do one receiver.

Cutis mentions that the jig is good to do "several" receivers. Lets figure 5 and see what the numbers looks like:

5 Polish prebent $174.75 + jig $69.95 = $244.70

5 Flat $99.75 + stamping die $169.95 = $269.70

Above + 12ton HF press $119.99 = $389.69

So still cheaper to go with the prebent, especially if you do not have a press.

So how about we save that if the user is careful he can get 10 of the prebents done with one of the jigs. I figure it is possible if you just use the jig as a guide and properly use a drill press or mill to align the cutting bits.

10 Polish prebent $340.95 + jig $69.95 = $410.90

10 Flat $199.95 + stamping die $169.95 = $369.90

Above + 12ton HF press $119.99 = $489.89

So if you have a press the stamping die and flats are the way to go, and if you do not there is less than 80 dollars difference to "invest" in a press.

Plus I never see the the ak builder stamping die wearing out. My buddies and I went in on one and have done 20 or so receviers, and the finish has not worn off yet. It is very well made. Plus for another 60-70bucks you can buy the center section to do 1.5mm receivers.

So for the casual ak enthusiast that wants to build a handful of kits the prebent looks like the best bet. For a more serious "advanced home hobbyist" (favorite saying of my retired Lt Colonel buddy!) or a group, the stamping die and a press would be a much better investment.
I think the pre bent will still be cheaper because no matter what, you would be hard pressed to complete either build without a press. Plus there is less risk by removing the whole flat bending scenario. On the other hand if you are doing something more complicated than a fixed stock there would a lot more risk in drilling for under folder side folder type options. So maybe bending a flat would then be better. Bottom line and I think you would agree no matter what you prefer having more options is a good thing.
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Old 05-27-2012, 06:56 AM   #15
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Just think Curtis could offer country correct selector stops and lettering you know Russian, Romanian or the other standard ones. He could even put that little dimple near the selector stop. Maybe even the evil "Y". Just a thought. Curtis please let us know how it sounds.
Not Curtis - and dont mean to detract from the conversation here, but if I could interject a thought:
If you want selector marks, why don't you etch them yourself with a etching mask from Dungeon Designs? He has like 10 styles of Cyrillic font, you can pick what YEAR font you want to match the kit - hint, hint. Can't do the Y, but an etch can put in the detents as well, if I am reading your request right.
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Old 05-27-2012, 08:12 AM   #16
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I think the pre bent will still be cheaper because no matter what, you would be hard pressed to complete either build without a press. Plus there is less risk by removing the whole flat bending scenario. On the other hand if you are doing something more complicated than a fixed stock there would a lot more risk in drilling for under folder side folder type options. So maybe bending a flat would then be better. Bottom line and I think you would agree no matter what you prefer having more options is a good thing.
If you did not have a hydraulic press, and were going to use the Green Machine tool/all thread method of barrel installation, and the Green Machine trigger tool, with a rivet squisher/screw assembly I could see this as a economical way to a single AK build. The installation/removal of the barrel pin would be the last hurdle to overcome, but that could be done with a cheap pneumatic hammer. After the build, you could sell off all the jigs and tooling to recoup your funds.
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Old 05-27-2012, 08:32 AM   #17
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I think the pre bent will still be cheaper because no matter what, you would be hard pressed to complete either build without a press. Plus there is less risk by removing the whole flat bending scenario. On the other hand if you are doing something more complicated than a fixed stock there would a lot more risk in drilling for under folder side folder type options. So maybe bending a flat would then be better. Bottom line and I think you would agree no matter what you prefer having more options is a good thing.
Having used the ak builder flat bending die I cannot imagine ever having any issues with it. It is very sturdy and well thought out. Only way I can see to mess it up would be to not put the front of the center section in the front of the die (ask how I know this...)

I agree, options are great, and just having something different to mess with if enough for alot of people. The fun is in the build for me, most of the time the finished product ends up not getting used much!
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Old 05-27-2012, 12:13 PM   #18
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If you did not have a hydraulic press, and were going to use the Green Machine tool/all thread method of barrel installation, and the Green Machine trigger tool, with a rivet squisher/screw assembly I could see this as a economical way to a single AK build. The installation/removal of the barrel pin would be the last hurdle to overcome, but that could be done with a cheap pneumatic hammer. After the build, you could sell off all the jigs and tooling to recoup your funds.
The all thread install tool costs $80 almost the cost of a press without the versility. Will that tool also allow you to press on the front end parts?
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Old 05-27-2012, 12:29 PM   #19
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Having used the ak builder flat bending die I cannot imagine ever having any issues with it. It is very sturdy and well thought out. Only way I can see to mess it up would be to not put the front of the center section in the front of the die (ask how I know this...)

I agree, options are great, and just having something different to mess with if enough for alot of people. The fun is in the build for me, most of the time the finished product ends up not getting used much!
I have one too and it is a stout piece made to do work. But some may not want to hassle with the die method. Just drilling is less intimidating.

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Not Curtis - and dont mean to detract from the conversation here, but if I could interject a thought:
If you want selector marks, why don't you etch them yourself with a etching mask from Dungeon Designs? He has like 10 styles of Cyrillic font, you can pick what YEAR font you want to match the kit - hint, hint. Can't do the Y, but an etch can put in the detents as well, if I am reading your request right.
Was just thinking the Polish stuff already has it on them and thought it could be done domestically. Some Romanian rifles have the Y but it's not drilled. I was just making suggestions from a marketing perspective. If there is enough interest in these things then real production is a possibility. Sort of one stop shopping.
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Old 05-27-2012, 12:33 PM   #20
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The all thread install tool costs $80 almost the cost of a press without the versility. Will that tool also allow you to press on the front end parts?
Probably not, but then it is also collapsible and portable which a 12 ton Harbor Freight press is not. If someone was limited on space, like an apartment/mobile home dweller, I can see the versatility and purpose. You can easily resell a surplus thread tool after you are done with a single build, but with the heavy steel press you are pretty much stuck with it as furniture. Then you have to also consider that the thread tool allows you to very easily move the barrel forward and backward to achieve an exact, more precise head-space. In my limited assembly experience, I have noticed it is fairly easy with my 12 ton press to over-shoot and go too far during that stage(especially on a virgin build where I don't have the barrel pin hole to use as a guide). Different stokes for different folks; IMHO it is just wonderful we have all these creative people providing the AK community with all these home building options.
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Old 05-27-2012, 12:53 PM   #21
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Your points are all excellent and well taken. In the end let creative building options rule the day!
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Old 05-27-2012, 07:42 PM   #22
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I think prebent and heat treated would be the cats ass. It would require good bits to bore the holes but heat treating is the biggest PITA. I just trashed one trying to fully treat.
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Old 05-27-2012, 08:17 PM   #23
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I think prebent and heat treated would be the cats ass. It would require good bits to bore the holes but heat treating is the biggest PITA. I just trashed one trying to fully treat.
Do you use a stabilization jig when heat treating?
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Old 05-27-2012, 08:34 PM   #24
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I think prebent and heat treated would be the cats ass. It would require good bits to bore the holes but heat treating is the biggest PITA. I just trashed one trying to fully treat.
Do you use a stabilization jig when heat treating?
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Old 05-27-2012, 09:28 PM   #25
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Do you use a stabilization jig when heat treating?
I tried rigging up one using c-clamps but the clamps released during the quench. I'm gonna go ahead and get a NDS,screw the aggrevation.
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Old 05-27-2012, 09:58 PM   #26
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I'm glad these index off of what looks like the predrilled holes and not the end of the receiver. Looks like it will make for some pretty accurate holes.
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Old 05-28-2012, 05:38 AM   #27
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I think prebent and heat treated would be the cats ass. It would require good bits to bore the holes but heat treating is the biggest PITA. I just trashed one trying to fully treat.
Amen to that. They are missing something which would make this go from good to great.
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Old 05-28-2012, 06:10 PM   #28
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Problem is you still need the press for the barrel no matter which one you build...I'm doing one for the sport of it....Ok for the hell of it...
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Old 05-28-2012, 08:33 PM   #29
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Problem is you still need the press for the barrel no matter which one you build...I'm doing one for the sport of it....Ok for the hell of it...
Nope. Green Machine sells tools that do not require a press.

http://www.tothtool.com/
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Old 05-28-2012, 09:57 PM   #30
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Do you use a stabilization jig when heat treating?
Friend and I did one tonight, in the oven annealing now. Used a "coffin" to stabilize and boy did that ever take a warping!
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Old 05-29-2012, 01:06 AM   #31
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Not Curtis - and dont mean to detract from the conversation here, but if I could interject a thought:
If you want selector marks, why don't you etch them yourself with a etching mask from Dungeon Designs? He has like 10 styles of Cyrillic font, you can pick what YEAR font you want to match the kit - hint, hint. Can't do the Y, but an etch can put in the detents as well, if I am reading your request right.
hk do you have a link or more info on this?
thanks.
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Old 05-29-2012, 06:36 AM   #32
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Friend and I did one tonight, in the oven annealing now. Used a "coffin" to stabilize and boy did that ever take a warping!
In the sticky on heat treating, the seasoned AK files builders from a few years ago discuss the use of stainless machinists foil during annealing to cure scaling issues and warping. Do you use the foil?

http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14475
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Old 05-29-2012, 09:42 AM   #33
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Nope, real caveman/redneck style - I didnt mean to imply that the receiver warped, the coffin did - though to be fair it was its third trip, so may be on its last one next, after being hammered flat each time
No scaling - hardwood charcoal fire in a bbq pit, hairdryer for forced air, past cherry to glowing orange (through view hole in coals), remove and quench in a kegerator with water, unscrew coffin, into oven at 450-500 for about an hour, turn off oven and cool over night. This morning, rings like a bell, and the case harden colors are pretty sweet, flexable - havent tried to drive a nail yet, but appears, until I do and confirm, is hardened.

br762 - PM sent.
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Old 05-29-2012, 01:22 PM   #34
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The only thing I use a press for is getting the barrel pin out then back in. I use a gear puller and a brass hose barb in the chamber to get the barrel out of the trunnion. When I go back together, I put the barrel in the freezer for a day or two and the finished receiver in the oven at 300 degrees for an hour. I take the barrel out, use copper anti-seize on the chamber area, take the receiver out of the oven and they just pop together. Never had a problem yet.

Last edited by FNnuts; 05-29-2012 at 03:14 PM.
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Old 05-29-2012, 02:23 PM   #35
my-rifle
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Curtis made the mistake of selling me a flat-bending jig and a trigger-guard rivet jig back in 2007 or so. They both work just fine 5 years and about 30 AKs later. With quality like Curtis puts out it's amazing that he's still in business.
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