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Old 02-23-2006, 04:02 PM   #1
boomer4570
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Lightbulb 7.62x54R bullets

I have been reloading for several years, mainly for for MilSurp, for obvious reasons. I purchased a Romak 3 last year from SOG. Being fairly anal, and somewhat familiar with the lack of decent commercial ammo for the 7.62x54R in general, I did as much research as possible prior to starting to reload for the Romak. I am, mainly, a hunter, so this is where my interest is, although I shoot hundreds of rounds a year, they are all hunting loads. Why have a gun if you don't shoot it, right? As everyone already knows, there is a shortage of 150 gr Boat-tail projectiles in .311 150 gr on the market. I have recently begun to e-mail the various manufacturers to ask that they consider adding either a boat-tail soft point for "Premium" polymer tip to their line-up. Hornady has already replied with "They won't kill the deer any deader and we don't think you need it, try Sierra or Speer SPT's." And so, I have sent the dreaded electronic letter to Nosler, Speer and Sierra. I will post updates (rejections) as I receive them. They don't know we want them if we don't tell them.
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Old 02-24-2006, 09:11 AM   #2
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Robert Treece from Sierra bullets replied to my e-mail:

I will add your request to the new product suggestion folder--it will be reviewed at the next product development meeting.

Thanks for your interest and for using our products!
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Old 02-24-2006, 10:47 AM   #3
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My first e-mail to Hornady and their reply:

-----Original Message-----
From: Tonya Finck [mailto:tfinck@hornady.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 3:48 PM

Subject: FW: .311 bullets




You are correct there are no premium bullets and I guess that's
primarily because the rifles are relatively inexpensive, the cartridges
are relatively low velocity and it's real easy to make an excellent
bullet that will perform perfectly out of those guns/cartridges with out
the added expense of a premium bullet with no real gain in performance.
The reality is the premium bullets won't really kill your deer any
deader and we just can't justify making a more expensive bullet for our
customer we know won't help .
Sincerely,
Steve H





-----Original Message-----
From: Davis Chuck
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 8:59 AM
To: Webmaster
Cc: Subject: .311 bullets

I would like to know if Hornady has ever considered manufacturing a .311
150 gr. bullet on the SST platform. With all the 7.62x54R rifles that
have been imported over the last few years, not to mention all the .303
enfileds and
7.7 Jap rifles, I believe there is a good market for this bullet. There
are NO premium bullets for this caliber on the market. I, personally,
own 6 enfields and 4 7.62x54R rifles and, obviously, handload for all of
them. No one has just 1 enfield. And a lot of people reload because of
the anemic loadings with substandard bullets for most older military
calibers. Find a decent 7.62x54R hunting catridge. They don't exist.

Please give serious thought to my suggestion.

Thank you for your time,

Charles M. Davis
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Old 02-27-2006, 09:57 AM   #4
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From Speer:

From: "speerexpert" <speerexpert@atk.com>
To
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 5:51 PM
Subject: RE: speer-bullets.com - Ask the Expert Form


> Charles: potential sales drive new product introduction. We feel our
> Hot-Cor bullet is a quality bullet, at this point, I suspect it to be
> the 0.311" bullets we'll offer until there is a fairly dramatic up-turn
> in 0.311" bullet requests. Most requests for bullets are in the
> flat-base design, for hunting rather than the BT for target shooting.
> Shoot Straight!
> Coy Getman
> CCI/Speer Technical Service Coordinator
> (800) 627-3640 # 5351 (pound key must be used)
> Fax: (208) 799-3589
>
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Old 03-08-2006, 01:00 AM   #5
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Hey Speer is a good bullet for reloading ! Also Sierra Has them in .311 actual Russian 7.62 as well in boat tail check in to it man because im thinking about the reload system too!
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Old 03-08-2006, 01:53 PM   #6
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I use .308 dia bullets in mine, and get decent accuracy.
__________________
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Nope, there's only one Nickle!


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Old 03-17-2006, 02:46 PM   #7
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I have been using pulled Albanian 7.62x54r bullets with OK results, they are 148 grain steel core, jacketed. I had two tins of Albanian surplus laying around (none of my Moisins like it, and I hate to shoot corrosive ammo in my PSL) so I pulled most of the bullets, soak em in acetone to get the nail polish off and your good to go.

John
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Old 04-02-2006, 06:51 PM   #8
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Hey, Don't forget all the Mosin Nagants out there too! I got 3 in my safe along with my PSL.
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Old 04-06-2006, 12:17 AM   #9
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Talking

Using 165gr Speer SP BT .308 IMR4895 @ 39gr 100yrd 5 Shot group...covered by a quarter...Slug the bore and see what your grooves measure...
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Old 04-06-2006, 06:32 PM   #10
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ran across this site, he had information 7.62x54r loading.
I do not reload . Will some one who take a look see if the information is any good.

http://members.carol.net/~on.melchar/762russ/index.html

7
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Old 04-08-2006, 12:31 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickle
I use .308 dia bullets in mine, and get decent accuracy.
concur.
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Old 04-18-2006, 08:47 PM   #12
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I have tried .308 diameter bullets, Hornady 150 gr SST's , Speer 150 gr and Sierra 150 gr. The best I could do at 50 yds was a 3" group. I can get 1'' at 100 with .311 Sierra's without really trying. Hence, my project to try and get a 150 gr boat tail type projectile. Maybe Barnes will listen to my drivel with an open mind?????
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Old 04-18-2006, 09:10 PM   #13
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Lead core commercial 150 grain bullets are shorter than the steel core sniper bullets.The best bullet I've found is the 180 grain .311" Sierra bullet.The Hornady SST's do alright in tight bores but aren't great in Russian bores.Most of my loading has been with surplus 4895 and commercial IMR-4895.The surplus 4895 is from 1972 and IMR-4895 burning rate was increased in 1976.IMR-4064 is suppose to be about the same burning rate as the earlier surplus 4895.Lapua brass has been best.
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Old 04-18-2006, 09:13 PM   #14
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Can somebody pull a 148 grain steel core bullet and measure it for length?
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Old 04-18-2006, 10:45 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allesennogwat
Can somebody pull a 148 grain steel core bullet and measure it for length?

Albanian steel core is 1.270, Yugoslavian siver tip is 1.260.

Hope it helps!

John
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Old 04-18-2006, 11:01 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnyvegas
Albanian steel core is 1.270, Yugoslavian siver tip is 1.260.

Hope it helps!

John

Thanks.Helps a bunch!!I have only reloading supplies in 7.62x54R right now.I am working on accuracy and velocity while keeping gas port pressure about right.
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Old 04-22-2006, 01:01 PM   #17
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I have considered using heavier bullets, but I am concerned about the specs for the Romak. I want to keep it as close as possible to original. Unlike commercial guns, Mil-surp semi-autos are made, usually, to a specific loading and bullet weight. Hot rodding reloads, espcially for semi-autos, can cause a lot of damge to the action. Plus, if you are using the original scope, the range finding features are set up for that particular ammunition configuration.

As a side note (curiosity on my part), I checked 150 gr .311 speer at 1.012 long and 150 gr .311 sierra at 1.0355 long. Czech silver 1.263 long.

Last edited by boomer4570; 04-22-2006 at 01:08 PM.
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Old 04-22-2006, 05:46 PM   #18
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I like to duplicate the military loads with my handloads,not hotrod them.The best bullet for accuracy so far has been the 180 grain .311" Sierra soft point,not the hollow point.I think bullet length and power capacity might be a better match than bullet weight.The military bullets normally have an air space at the tip and often a steel core.This is very different from commercial bullets.

Somebody measured some miltary bullets for diameter and all were .310" none were ,311".They measured the Wolf commercial bullets at .309".Many .308" bullets measure at .3085".
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Old 04-22-2006, 11:33 PM   #19
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Hotrodding reloads may also be with too heavy a bullet. Check out this link:

http://www.dragunov.net/psl_ammo.htm
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Old 04-22-2006, 11:34 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allesennogwat
I like to duplicate the military loads with my handloads,not hotrod them.The best bullet for accuracy so far has been the 180 grain .311" Sierra soft point,not the hollow point.I think bullet length and power capacity might be a better match than bullet weight.The military bullets normally have an air space at the tip and often a steel core.This is very different from commercial bullets.

Somebody measured some miltary bullets for diameter and all were .310" none were ,311".They measured the Wolf commercial bullets at .309".Many .308" bullets measure at .3085".
Read a bit about re loading for Romak 3s and you'll find that the general consensus is that using bullets heavier than 150 GR batters the action severely, so at least for me, heavy bullets, and duplicating their ballistics aint gonna happen, i spent too much time looking for my Romak 3, and am not ready to beat it up just yet!! YMMV



John
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Old 04-22-2006, 11:40 PM   #21
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Default I copy and pasted the link for ya Boomer4570

The following was provided by an AK expert gunsmith: "I recommend to all users of such a rifle to stop using commercial Sellier& Bellot 7.62x54r and any other heavy ball such as the Bulgarian, Russian or German 54r. The rifle is not designed to EFFECTIVELY handle such rounds and almost everyone having problems that I have seen and fixed in the shop were due to shooting this stuff. They just beat the living hell out of those bolts even with the pin relief cut-out in the rear trunion. The gun is designed to use a STANDARD military 54r with a 147-158 grn bullet. This is a safe range of the 54r standard round to go by when using this rifle. I own a PSL and have never had one problem with it. It is a joy to shoot, quite accurate and the long stroke gas system is surprisingly smooth. I have fixed a wide array of problems for many people, but I must admit that more often than not they were brought on by the operator. Trust me, I have seen some screwy things fall out of the inside of the bolt assembly which I could write pages on, some really hysterical.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to deter anyone from enjoying their PSL. Just follow this advice, and you should be fine:

1. Use military 7.62x54r ball

2. Keep the inside of the bolt well lubricated (Breakfree® is good)

3. Keep your internal trigger components lubricated and free of residue."
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Old 04-23-2006, 12:29 AM   #22
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what grain size is the 7n1 ammo?

you could also load your own stuff using .308 bullets in 150gr.
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Old 04-23-2006, 09:14 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnyvegas
Read a bit about re loading for Romak 3s and you'll find that the general consensus is that using bullets heavier than 150 GR batters the action severely, so at least for me, heavy bullets, and duplicating their ballistics aint gonna happen, i spent too much time looking for my Romak 3, and am not ready to beat it up just yet!! YMMV



John
That's if slow powders that are normally recommended for the heavier bullets is used.I use IMR-4895 where normally in load manuals IMR-4350 is recommended for 7.62x54R and you're right this is too slow for a semi auto's gas system and will batter the rifle.Stick with the medium burning rate powders.
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Old 04-23-2006, 11:28 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allesennogwat
That's if slow powders that are normally recommended for the heavier bullets is used.I use IMR-4895 where normally in load manuals IMR-4350 is recommended for 7.62x54R and you're right this is too slow for a semi auto's gas system and will batter the rifle.Stick with the medium burning rate powders.
I use IMR 4895, and 3031..............I am not worried about anything having to do with heavy bullets, and my Romak-3, it has been well documented that heavy ball ammo run thru Romaks is bad juju so I will stay away from it. If I need to shoot anything heavier than 150 GR in 7.62x54r, I'll use my M91/30 PU, or my M44. I treat my firearms well..............and they last a long time, doing this has served me well for the last 32 years, so I think I'll stick with it!


John
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Old 04-24-2006, 09:02 AM   #25
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It will take many years and 1000's of rounds of ammo to wear out the Romak 3.
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Old 04-24-2006, 12:15 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allesennogwat
It will take many years and 1000's of rounds of ammo to wear out the Romak 3.
OK so when you do wear yours out........post here, and let me know!

John
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Old 04-24-2006, 12:21 PM   #27
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I'm going back over my lighter bullet weight loads now.I'll load some up today with 150 grain bullets.
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Old 04-25-2006, 02:37 PM   #28
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Here is a good mild,accurate load for the PSL.I tried this load a long time ago before going to heavier bullets.Even though the bullet is .308" it's accurate.

Lapua case(Winchester case made by S&B can be used)

CCI(Blount)#34 primer(if difficult to find Rem 9 1/2 can be used)

45.5 grains of IMR-4895

Sierra 155 grain Palma Match King JHP

Load to right around 3.00 inches.
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Old 04-25-2006, 04:55 PM   #29
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How about Wolf gold brass?
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Old 04-26-2006, 04:32 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by engr
How about Wolf gold brass?

Is that the new brass cased Wolf ammo?I've only seen it in 223 and it's contracted.It's not made by Wolf.It's only marketed by Wolf.I forget who makes it.
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Old 04-26-2006, 04:42 PM   #31
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Prvi Partizan.

I too would like to know its 'reloadability', i.e., neck thickness, annealing, etc.
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Old 04-26-2006, 04:52 PM   #32
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Yes,I've reloaded the commercial Yugo ammo.It normally has boxer primers.The Yugoslavian military normally uses 8mm Mauser and not much 7.62x54R.There is also FNM ammo made in Portugual that's boxer primed.
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Old 04-26-2006, 05:36 PM   #33
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How stout are the cartridges? How thick is the brass and how many times can it be reloaded? I know this is dependent on the crimp and how hot it is reloaded.

I also reload .308 and .223. The best is Lake City Arsenal brass that can be reloaded quite a few times with no crimp and a middlin' target load.

So, how does the Prvi Partisan/Yugo/Wolf Gold brass do?

Thanks!
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Old 04-26-2006, 06:16 PM   #34
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The FNM is not common because of the cost.The Prvi Partizan is soft on the first reload and gets hard on reloads after the first.The factory ammo is soft points and I shoot in my bolt action before reloading for the semi autos.It's not cheap but the brass is decent.I load it until the necks split or the primer pockets loosen.I haven't really kept count of the reloads but from the semi autos it's not nearly as many times as bolt action only brass.
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Old 04-26-2006, 07:49 PM   #35
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I believe the Wolf Gold is PRVI. There was an article in, I think, Shotgun News about it.

On to other things. I have E-Mailed Barnes Bullets and here is their reply:

Hi Charles

We appreciate your request and patronage. I'm happy to turn in a formal request on your behalf.

We Aim to please, reloading is a great hobby, enjoy it.

Ty Herring
Barnes Bullets
Customer Service Director
P.O. Box 215
American Fork
Utah 84003
Tel 801-756-4222
1-800-574-9200
Fax 801-756-4222
Email: email@barnesbullets.com
http://www.barnesbullets.com



Notice: This e-mail and/or the attachments accompanying it may contain confidential information belonging to Barnes Bullets. The information contained is for the use of the intended recipient. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the e-mail and any attachments.







--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: CHARLES DAVIS
Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2006 11:44 AM
To: email@barnesbullets.com
Subject: .311 diameter projectile request



To whom it may concern:

As an avid reloader I use many brands of brass, bullets and powder. I recently purchased a Romak 3 in 7.62x54R. To date, the best bullet I have found is the 150 gr SPT Pro-Hunter #2300. I shoot very little Match or FMJ projectiles, preferring to practice with what I hunt with. There are currently no "Premium" hunting bullets manufactured at .311 caliber. Wanting to use the capability of the Romak 3 (an approximately 150gr bullet at approximately 2700 fps),

My question is this: what is the possibilty of adding a .311 150 gr XBT to your line-up??

When looking at the "Sniper" ammo made for use with the Dragunov and Romak 3, they use a longer steel core bullet. Better B.C. I believe the TSX would shine in this configuation.






http://www.dragunov.net/psl_ammo.htm

http://www.realguns.com/loads/762x54r.htm

http://www3.sympatico.ca/shooters/LoadData.htm

In further defense of my question, there have been a lot of SMLE's, 91/30's, M-38's and M-44's imported the last few years. There are only 2 150 gr SPT's on the market for reloaders: Sierra and Speer. And, most commercial ammunition for these rifles are 180 gr and up, and, loaded at fairly anemic velocities. The 7.62x54R is roughly equivelant to the .308 winchester and the venerable 30-06.

Please consider my request.

Thank you,

Charles M. Davis

Now that is customer service, I just hope it isn't lip service.
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