Importing Magazines from German seller?

IPSC · 05-01-2012, 04:36 PM

I have a *great* (possible) deal going on with a seller on the German gun-type Ebay called "Egun" ( http://www.egun.de/market/index.php)

I'm not sure about the legality of sale. Any help here? I found a reference to ATF form "6" ...and something about it being ok if the purchase price is under $100,etc.

The deal however, is for 4 East German Ak-74 mags, 30 rounders....with EG pouch and cleaning kit.

Any help here?

nalioth · 05-01-2012, 04:46 PM

Where's the "beats the dead horse" picture?

There's plenty of help here - did you look?

Importing magazines - AK Files

IPSC · 05-01-2012, 04:52 PM

I am also on other forums on other matters besides guns.....where "I" am the old-timer on the board, and say the same thing to newcomers on the web board. But perhaps not with the "attitude".....

YES ....I did do a "search", actually quite a few over the last few hours....obviously I used the wrong combination of search terms, because I got a lot of "opinions" and counter arguments that still left me in doubt.....

(friendly bunch here.....)

Thanks........

IPSC · 05-01-2012, 05:11 PM

The links provided did nothing to clarify the points and counter-points still made. There is the over/under $100 value question ....and also if hi-cap mags still need or don't need the form 6.

Quote from a cited example---> " Last I checked, they changed the language of the form 6 regs to require a form 6 and proof of origin of ALL mags being imported due to the ban, but never bothered to update the language now that the ban is no longer in effect. Does this mean the $100 limit applies to mags once again, or did they just simply drop the proof of origin requirement? Nobody knows for sure and I have heard it both ways from knowledgable sources. The statement on ATF's website you posted would seem to indicate you need one. I would check directly with them if you want to CYA, at least you can say you did what they told you to do.

allesennogwat · 05-01-2012, 05:15 PM

There may be a price limit on gun parts in general but magazines over 10 rounds, regardless of price, require a free for personal use import permit. Somebody had one magazine sent from them overseas and they were sent a form instead of losing the magazine. Don't wait to be sent a form when they find the magazines. (They may just keep them.) Submit a form first. It doesn't cost anything if the magazines are imported for personal use.

allesennogwat · 05-01-2012, 05:34 PM

Semiautomatic Assault Weapons And Large Capacity Ammunition Feeding Devices (SAWs and LCAFDs)

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/saws-and-lcafds.html

Quote:

Q: Does the expiration of the SAW ban and the LCAFD ban affect importation?

LCAFDs (Large Capacity Ammunition Feeding Devices) are no longer prohibited from importation, but they are still subject to the provisions of the Arms Export Control Act. An approved Form 6 import permit is still required.

IPSC · 05-01-2012, 06:23 PM

Thank you gents........ has anyone actually gone thru with this?....is there a large time lag to complete and execute a Form 6 ? I'm in the middle of an auction.....

nalioth · 05-01-2012, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IPSC

Thank you gents........ has anyone actually gone thru with this?....is there a large time lag to complete and execute a Form 6 ? I'm in the middle of an auction.....

Most folks don't bother.

Besides, you're gonna be over the $100 value with your 4-mag set.

allesennogwat · 05-01-2012, 06:32 PM

The import permit is free for personal use. No charge. Submit a form 6. even if you don't use it, you'll have it.

IPSC · 05-01-2012, 06:41 PM

BTW..... does any of this change if I buy a mag BODY? ( I will probably buy US made followers and floorplates for additional 922r compliance issues).

Maybe a mag *body* is considered more of a "part" and I (maybe?) avoid the Form 6 issues (?)....and the possible 6+ week wait that is part of that process?

And I'm doing all "this" precisely because of the good "deal" I can likely get on the German purchase. Yes indeed.....4 mags and EG pouch and cleaning kit for under $100. Best deal I found Stateside is $40 per mag. I see the 4 mag sets plus pouch at over $200 stateside. Besides....the US law speaks about "wholesale" value not exceeding $100.

nalioth · 05-01-2012, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IPSC

BTW..... does any of this change if I buy a mag BODY? ( I will probably buy US made followers and floorplates for additional 922r compliance issues).

Maybe a mag *body* is considered more of a "part" and I (maybe?) avoid the Form 6 issues (?)....and the possible 6+ week wait that is part of that process?

And I'm doing all "this" precisely because of the good "deal" I can likely get on the German purchase. Yes indeed.....4 mags and EG pouch and cleaning kit for under $100. Best deal I found Stateside is $40 per mag. I see the 4 mag sets plus pouch at over $200 stateside.

Can you insert rounds in a mag body, and run them through your rifle?

It's a "part".

armored223 · 05-02-2012, 12:02 PM

Is there an English version of that site. I would fill out the form to get them that cheap but no sprechen si duetch. At least not since high school

nalioth · 05-02-2012, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by armored223

Is there an English version of that site. I would fill out the form to get them that cheap but no sprechen si duetch. At least not since high school

Run it through this: http://translate.google.com

IPSC · 05-02-2012, 12:27 PM

No need...go to the site.....the site itself has a "translate" button on the top/right. At least it does as it appears on my screen with a Google toolbar.

I know German language about 90+%...and STILL need a translation website to help. All are awful and are maybe (at best) 60% OK. For "magazine spring" I got the word for "early-part-of-the-year" (Spring Season). Just try saying " magazine follower" and have it come out right.....hahaha. You get a term that means a person who reads a lot of printed magazines and newspapers.

OK...so if I fill out the form. Now what?.....the gov't form itself says the "application" will be processed on a first-come/first-served basis....and don't expect an answer back for the next 6-8 weeks. PLUS....every entry on the form better be PERFECT....or it's back to the end-of-the-line and you can start over !

I think I'll try having the seller break the package down into elemental parts and send multiple "parts" packages.

IPSC · 05-02-2012, 04:30 PM

Same German site shows a seller with a package of 4 Russian "bakelite" style Ak-74 mags in 5.45 x 39....for a "buy-it-now" price of 45 Euros ( about $60 at today's exchange rate). Plus international shipping( no idea yet on cost). Plus the possible form6 hassle.....seems like a good deal compared to stateside prices....

http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=3844850

auditech10 · 05-02-2012, 05:33 PM

What are German gun laws, anybody know???

armored223 · 05-02-2012, 07:00 PM

They are restricted somewhat on firearms ownership. They have gun registration and limitations on handguns and semi auto rifles by special permit. Kind of like a state out west. But they can own guns and even have CC by permit. They have one of the highest gun ownership rates in Europe and # 4 in world

Neat sight Check it out.
http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/germany

IPSC · 05-08-2012, 02:55 PM

Bought the Russian bakelites at "Steal" prices from the aforementioned Egun auction....next step is finding a way to get them here.

IPSC · 08-02-2012, 07:26 AM

Follow up..... after a kinda long ordeal...all is well.

The process included me taking the cautionary step of corresponding with BATFE, and politely asking how we do this, especially if we break down the mags into a package of mag bodies and mag springs/hardware. Written answer to me was that no Form6 is necessary if the wholesale value of the package is less than $100 and that the importation is for personal use, and not intended for immediate resale.

So...I won the 2 auctions....ended up with 8 East German Bakelite 5.45 mags. Besides the Form6 regs question, German law and shipping costs were prohibitive for direct shipment from seller(s) to me. Instead, I had them shipped to my good friend in Germany who disassembled the mags for me and sent me 2 packages.

Well the "2nd" package he sent ( mag bodies) came to me...weren't lost ( box looked like it was run over by a truck, though !)....but the "1st" package sent much earlier, with the mag parts, seemingly got lost....I didn't get that package for a long time. At some point I thought I never would get this package, thinking it may either be held up at Customs/BATFE, or lost.

The 2nd package eventually showed up....but not after giving me fits for a few weeks....

Got all the pieces together yesterday..... finally done !!

armored223 · 08-02-2012, 08:10 AM

What is the condition like?

IPSC · 08-02-2012, 08:24 AM

... 6 of the 8 are nearly new....slight scratches on body,

.... 2 of the 8 show a bit more than average light scratches on the body and the baseplate/floorplate tab has some bright spots where the paint/finish rubbed a bit. A touch of rust patina on the locking tabs which wiped away with a scotchbrite pad and some oil.

Functional condition of all 8 is excellent. We had prior-to-sale email exchanges and pics to look at.

05-01-2012, 04:36 PM	#1
IPSC Member AKaholic #: 162283 Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Orchard Park, NY Posts: 488	Importing Magazines from German seller? I have a great (possible) deal going on with a seller on the German gun-type Ebay called "Egun" ( http://www.egun.de/market/index.php) I'm not sure about the legality of sale. Any help here? I found a reference to ATF form "6" ...and something about it being ok if the purchase price is under $100,etc. The deal however, is for 4 East German Ak-74 mags, 30 rounders....with EG pouch and cleaning kit. Any help here?

05-01-2012, 04:46 PM	#2
nalioth Devil's Advocate AKaholic #: 5678 Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 13,295	Where's the "beats the dead horse" picture? There's plenty of help here - did you look? Importing magazines - AK Files __________________ I make custom signature images - click for more info "Tactical" is a mindset, not an equipment list. Home \| Forum \| Blog \| PicPaste \| ♠ ImgDump \| ☎ Nalioth

05-01-2012, 04:52 PM	#3
IPSC Member AKaholic #: 162283 Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Orchard Park, NY Posts: 488	I am also on other forums on other matters besides guns.....where "I" am the old-timer on the board, and say the same thing to newcomers on the web board. But perhaps not with the "attitude"..... YES ....I did do a "search", actually quite a few over the last few hours....obviously I used the wrong combination of search terms, because I got a lot of "opinions" and counter arguments that still left me in doubt..... (friendly bunch here.....) Thanks........ Last edited by IPSC; 05-01-2012 at 04:59 PM.

05-01-2012, 05:15 PM	#5
allesennogwat Curio & Relic AKaholic #: 3738 Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 32,196	There may be a price limit on gun parts in general but magazines over 10 rounds, regardless of price, require a free for personal use import permit. Somebody had one magazine sent from them overseas and they were sent a form instead of losing the magazine. Don't wait to be sent a form when they find the magazines. (They may just keep them.) Submit a form first. It doesn't cost anything if the magazines are imported for personal use. __________________ Daraclor: A brand of anti-malaria pills which we had to drink every week while on the border. Legend had it that these would make you turn yellow and that you wouldn't be able to tan.

05-01-2012, 06:32 PM	#9
allesennogwat Curio & Relic AKaholic #: 3738 Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 32,196	The import permit is free for personal use. No charge. Submit a form 6. even if you don't use it, you'll have it. __________________ Daraclor: A brand of anti-malaria pills which we had to drink every week while on the border. Legend had it that these would make you turn yellow and that you wouldn't be able to tan.

05-01-2012, 05:11 PM	#4
IPSC Member AKaholic #: 162283 Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Orchard Park, NY Posts: 488	The links provided did nothing to clarify the points and counter-points still made. There is the over/under $100 value question ....and also if hi-cap mags still need or don't need the form 6. Quote from a cited example---> " Last I checked, they changed the language of the form 6 regs to require a form 6 and proof of origin of ALL mags being imported due to the ban, but never bothered to update the language now that the ban is no longer in effect. Does this mean the $100 limit applies to mags once again, or did they just simply drop the proof of origin requirement? Nobody knows for sure and I have heard it both ways from knowledgable sources. The statement on ATF's website you posted would seem to indicate you need one. I would check directly with them if you want to CYA, at least you can say you did what they told you to do.

05-01-2012, 06:23 PM	#7
IPSC Member AKaholic #: 162283 Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Orchard Park, NY Posts: 488	Thank you gents........ has anyone actually gone thru with this?....is there a large time lag to complete and execute a Form 6 ? I'm in the middle of an auction.....

05-01-2012, 06:41 PM	#10
IPSC Member AKaholic #: 162283 Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Orchard Park, NY Posts: 488	BTW..... does any of this change if I buy a mag BODY? ( I will probably buy US made followers and floorplates for additional 922r compliance issues). Maybe a mag body is considered more of a "part" and I (maybe?) avoid the Form 6 issues (?)....and the possible 6+ week wait that is part of that process? And I'm doing all "this" precisely because of the good "deal" I can likely get on the German purchase. Yes indeed.....4 mags and EG pouch and cleaning kit for under $100. Best deal I found Stateside is $40 per mag. I see the 4 mag sets plus pouch at over $200 stateside. Besides....the US law speaks about "wholesale" value not exceeding $100. Last edited by IPSC; 05-02-2012 at 07:04 AM.

05-02-2012, 12:02 PM	#12
armored223 Senior Member Contributor AKaholic #: 159847 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Midwest Posts: 851	Is there an English version of that site. I would fill out the form to get them that cheap but no sprechen si duetch. At least not since high school

05-02-2012, 12:27 PM	#14
IPSC Member AKaholic #: 162283 Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Orchard Park, NY Posts: 488	No need...go to the site.....the site itself has a "translate" button on the top/right. At least it does as it appears on my screen with a Google toolbar. I know German language about 90+%...and STILL need a translation website to help. All are awful and are maybe (at best) 60% OK. For "magazine spring" I got the word for "early-part-of-the-year" (Spring Season). Just try saying " magazine follower" and have it come out right.....hahaha. You get a term that means a person who reads a lot of printed magazines and newspapers. OK...so if I fill out the form. Now what?.....the gov't form itself says the "application" will be processed on a first-come/first-served basis....and don't expect an answer back for the next 6-8 weeks. PLUS....every entry on the form better be PERFECT....or it's back to the end-of-the-line and you can start over ! I think I'll try having the seller break the package down into elemental parts and send multiple "parts" packages. Last edited by IPSC; 05-02-2012 at 12:40 PM.

05-02-2012, 04:30 PM	#15
IPSC Member AKaholic #: 162283 Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Orchard Park, NY Posts: 488	Same German site shows a seller with a package of 4 Russian "bakelite" style Ak-74 mags in 5.45 x 39....for a "buy-it-now" price of 45 Euros ( about $60 at today's exchange rate). Plus international shipping( no idea yet on cost). Plus the possible form6 hassle.....seems like a good deal compared to stateside prices.... http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=3844850

05-02-2012, 05:33 PM	#16
auditech10 Senior Member AKaholic #: 41649 Join Date: May 2009 Location: CO Posts: 626	What are German gun laws, anybody know???

05-02-2012, 07:00 PM	#17
armored223 Senior Member Contributor AKaholic #: 159847 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Midwest Posts: 851	They are restricted somewhat on firearms ownership. They have gun registration and limitations on handguns and semi auto rifles by special permit. Kind of like a state out west. But they can own guns and even have CC by permit. They have one of the highest gun ownership rates in Europe and # 4 in world Neat sight Check it out. http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/germany

05-08-2012, 02:55 PM	#18
IPSC Member AKaholic #: 162283 Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Orchard Park, NY Posts: 488	Bought the Russian bakelites at "Steal" prices from the aforementioned Egun auction....next step is finding a way to get them here.

08-02-2012, 07:26 AM	#19
IPSC Member AKaholic #: 162283 Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Orchard Park, NY Posts: 488	Follow up..... after a kinda long ordeal...all is well. The process included me taking the cautionary step of corresponding with BATFE, and politely asking how we do this, especially if we break down the mags into a package of mag bodies and mag springs/hardware. Written answer to me was that no Form6 is necessary if the wholesale value of the package is less than $100 and that the importation is for personal use, and not intended for immediate resale. So...I won the 2 auctions....ended up with 8 East German Bakelite 5.45 mags. Besides the Form6 regs question, German law and shipping costs were prohibitive for direct shipment from seller(s) to me. Instead, I had them shipped to my good friend in Germany who disassembled the mags for me and sent me 2 packages. Well the "2nd" package he sent ( mag bodies) came to me...weren't lost ( box looked like it was run over by a truck, though !)....but the "1st" package sent much earlier, with the mag parts, seemingly got lost....I didn't get that package for a long time. At some point I thought I never would get this package, thinking it may either be held up at Customs/BATFE, or lost. The 2nd package eventually showed up....but not after giving me fits for a few weeks.... Got all the pieces together yesterday..... finally done !! Last edited by IPSC; 08-02-2012 at 07:31 AM.

08-02-2012, 08:10 AM	#20
armored223 Senior Member Contributor AKaholic #: 159847 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Midwest Posts: 851	What is the condition like?

08-02-2012, 08:24 AM	#21
IPSC Member AKaholic #: 162283 Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Orchard Park, NY Posts: 488	... 6 of the 8 are nearly new....slight scratches on body, .... 2 of the 8 show a bit more than average light scratches on the body and the baseplate/floorplate tab has some bright spots where the paint/finish rubbed a bit. A touch of rust patina on the locking tabs which wiped away with a scotchbrite pad and some oil. Functional condition of all 8 is excellent. We had prior-to-sale email exchanges and pics to look at.

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