Go Back   The AK Files Forums > Rifle Forums > Saigas and VEPRs

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-27-2012, 01:35 PM   #1
IPSC
Senior Member
 
AKaholic #: 162283
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Orchard Park, NY
Posts: 510
Default Warsaw or NATO buttstock length?

Guys....forgive the double posting ( as such), as I am also posting a similar question on the Saiga-12 board.
========================================

Anyway......

Folks:

I'll be ordering all my parts soon for the Saiga conversion to an AK-74 style gun. My question today is to get advice on the 2 buttstock lengths offered. I know the Warsaw buttstock is about 1.25" shorter than the NATO. Here is some data to consider as we ponder the answer:

-I am about 5'-8" in height and weigh abput 150 lbs. I wear a 32"- length shirt sleeve ( 15 1/2 x 32/33 shirt).

- The Saiga...as delivered with sporter stock.... has a length-of-pull ( measured from the trigger to the middle of the buttplate), of about 13 1/2" to 13 3/4", depending upon how you measure. This is pretty common for sporter-stock rifles.

- I've done a lot of pistol shooting in my past but not much with rifles. Shouldering the Saiga "seems" that the length of pull is a bit on the long side...but I have no real reference point to judge.

- Anyone know what the resulting length-of-pull is with a Warsaw or NATO buttstock?,.... on a converted gun where the FCG is moved back up ( forward) where it was intended to be in the first place,next to the mag?

- I will likely end-up with a red-dot or iron sights...so I don't think "close" eye relief will be a problem.

- For pistols, I usually fire ( right-handed) with a modified Weaver stance, two-handed, with a sharp angle on the right elbow, both feet about 45 degrees "off" of target perpendicular,right leg toward the rear. This brings the pistol a bit "up-close" and I like it this way.

So far,....I'm leaning toward Warsaw length, but willing to hear points-of-view.

Any advice/comments ????
IPSC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2012, 01:39 PM   #2
nalioth
Devil's Advocate & Moderator
 
nalioth's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 5678
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 22,301
Default

It's all about technique.

With traditional American "sporting stances", the NATO length is preferred.

With a modern "tactical blade stance", the Warsaw pact stock is preferred. It also is preferred where you have bulky clothes/tactical gear "bulking you out".
__________________

It ain't the hardware - it's the man using it.

Home | AK Files Custom Search | PicPaste | ImgDump | ☎ Nalioth
nalioth is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2012, 01:42 PM   #3
HWI
Curio & Relic
 
HWI's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 161546
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: GLORIOUS FLORIDA
Posts: 2,838
Default

Any chance you could go to a gun store and try out both lengths?

It really boils down to personal preference imo. I am 6'1" and prefer the Warsaw Pact length, but most people my height seem to prefer NATO length.
HWI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2012, 01:52 PM   #4
IPSC
Senior Member
 
AKaholic #: 162283
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Orchard Park, NY
Posts: 510
Default

Good info... I guess "too short" still allows some sort of reasonable options...like adding a recoil pad, if it truly is too short. Too long can be fixed too, but probably with a bit more effort.

I think I know where this is heading....many thanks....
IPSC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2012, 06:27 PM   #5
DaTrowl
Veteran Member
 
AKaholic #: 158168
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Dallas Texas
Posts: 1,582
Default

I prefer warsaw length unless the rifle will be running an optic, then I usually prefer Nato as the placement of the AK rail makes any optic mounted on it tough to use for me on a shorter stock......
DaTrowl is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2012, 07:45 PM   #6
IPSC
Senior Member
 
AKaholic #: 162283
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Orchard Park, NY
Posts: 510
Default

Not quite sure I understand the rail comment.....the stock length difference is 1.25" between NATO and Warsaw stocks. I would think that you have more than 1.25" difference in axial location options on a picatinny rail to compensate.... no ?

Last edited by IPSC; 07-19-2012 at 01:24 PM.
IPSC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2012, 08:12 PM   #7
DaTrowl
Veteran Member
 
AKaholic #: 158168
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Dallas Texas
Posts: 1,582
Default

not a picatinny rail, an AK optics side mount rail... they sit so far back that with the shorter stocks you have to bring the head down lower to get the alignment right, with a longer stock and thus longer distance between you and optic, you have more angle on it and can see thru it better with head slightly higher.... its hard to explaine what i mean but...

for grins.... go get a toilet paper tube...... hover it about midway between your shoulder and your eye... tilt your head down till you can see cleanly thru it.... now extend your arm farther out moveing it away from you and see how much LESS tilt you need on your neck to see cleanly thru it....

bout the only way I know to say it so that it makes sense....and it still may not at that
DaTrowl is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2012, 08:26 PM   #8
IPSC
Senior Member
 
AKaholic #: 162283
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Orchard Park, NY
Posts: 510
Default

DaTrowl... no worries....makes perfect sense.

That said, the side mount uses K-Var or UTG type "up-and-over" mounts....that place the optic over the top/centerline of the gun. The topside of such a mount has a long-ish picatinny rail. It was that rail I was talking about. Something like this--->

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/990...nt-ak-47-matte

However, placing the optic further forward or back may not compensate for the "neck scrunch" you're talking about with a shorter stock....got it.
IPSC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2012, 09:21 PM   #9
David Teague
Moderator
 
David Teague's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 162037
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: The Land of the Frozen North
Posts: 6,529
Default

I'm 6 feet and an older shooter who was brought up with the weaver stance and prefer the Warsaw stock with a Russian optic on my AK-74 and I do both bladed stance and frontal stance with my rifles. (I even run my AR platforms with the stocks on the shorter settings).

As always, YMMV.
David Teague is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2012, 12:26 PM   #10
East Bay Cop
Member
 
AKaholic #: 162345
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Bay Area California
Posts: 29
Default

Im about 5'9" and the warsaw is best for me. I usually like a shorter length of pull on most rifles. Plus throw in body armor and clothing and the shorter stock will prob feel a lil better. I would go Warsaw
East Bay Cop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 01:59 AM   #11
talaananthes
Senior Member
 
AKaholic #: 160654
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 515
Default

The NATO length stock is really too long for most shooters of average American height. You really have to get up to about 6'2" or 6'3" before such a long stock is REALLY warranted. I use a Beryl stock on my rifle and a warsaw stock with 1" buttpad (for LOP not recoil) on my shotgun. I really, really, really wish Arsenal made an intermediate length stock for about a 13.5" or 13.75" LOP. That's the pretty normal range of LOP for most shooters in this country. Compare to a Warsaw length of about 12.5" or my Beryl stock that's only 12.25".

Last edited by talaananthes; 05-01-2012 at 02:08 AM.
talaananthes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2012, 10:42 AM   #12
Stoned_Oli
Curio & Relic
Contributor
 
Stoned_Oli's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 157099
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Missouri
Posts: 5,273
Default

Another vote for Warsaw. My Saiga handles great and I am your height with a few more pounds. I have to say though that the stock I have on my MAK almost feels better and gives me a more accurate sight picture, and it is in between Warsaw and NATO. It is the AKM stock from Ironwood Designs, at 9-3/4".
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saxon View Post
I'm sure it was magical for her the way you describe it.

Did you at least have the decency to make her chug the other 11 beers first so she could block it out?
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Teague View Post
And here I thought it was "Every seven years Nails gets the Porn Fair".
Stoned_Oli is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.