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Old 01-31-2012, 06:42 PM   #1
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Default AKM-47 flash hiders/muzzle breaks

Wondering about the accuracy effects of different muzzle devices. I have the slant brake installed on my rifle, and I was just curious if taking off the slant break would help or hurt the accuracy. My belief is that it would help the AKM to become more accurate, as the gasses would vent from the muzzle more evenly. Does anyone have and data on this ?

Thanks,
:3))~
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Old 01-31-2012, 07:00 PM   #2
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The AK isn't that accurate to start with.

A muzzle device design isn't going to make much (if any) difference in accuracy.

Then again, if you've got Junior's metal shop project (or cheap China Charly's) screwed on the end of the rifle and are getting muzzle strikes, yeah, that'll definitely affect accuracy.
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Old 01-31-2012, 07:01 PM   #3
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You can test your theory for yourself. Target fire a series of rounds with the device attached, then with the device removed and compare the target results. It may or may not affect accuracy.
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Old 01-31-2012, 07:12 PM   #4
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You can test your theory for yourself. Target fire a series of rounds with the device attached, then with the device removed and compare the target results. It may or may not affect accuracy.
Logic and reason have no place on the Internet. What's come over you?
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Old 01-31-2012, 07:24 PM   #5
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Logic and reason have no place on the Internet. What's come over you?
Sorry I lost my head.., rant, curse, accuse, degrade and intimidate., there ya go that should answer the OP's question.
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Old 01-31-2012, 07:33 PM   #6
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I have compared no brake and slant brake very carefully, using the same rifle, same ammo, the same target, on the same day. I too was curious as the idea of a brake is always good, if it is effective and does not hurt accuracy, IMO. In general, here are my results/conclusions

Rifle: Bulgarian SLR100H T3 with Bulgarian CL AK47 barrel
Ammo: 1989 Yugo M67
Range: 50m, benchrest

Reliability: No difference
Perceived recoil: No difference
Accuracy: No difference in group size or point of impact
Noise: Slight difference, slant brake seemed louder

Same outing, rapid fire 10-50m at stationary 8" gongs and full size torso targets.

Reliability: No difference
Perceived recoil: Slant brake reduced controlled double (double tap) group size marginally at best.
Accuracy: No difference
Noise: Slant brake seemed slightly louder.

Scorch mark test. This is when you lean the rifle over the top of the truck and fuck your paint up. Test done on the bench, of course. This is actually a big deal for those of us that shoot piggys from the pick up.

No brake: Signifigant powder burn and residue
Slant brake: Slight powder mark, no scorch.

Conclusion.....

I love the look of a slant brake. It is the classic look on an AK, IMO. I'm not a collector or purist, and while the builder of my rifle went through great lengths to create a semi auto duplicate of a Bulgarian Type III, I grace it with a slant brake. Yeah, I know it is "incorrect" for the rifle, and I know for a proven fact that it is only really effective or needed to control full auto fire, and I am relgated to a lowly semi auto, but the slant brake simply reeks of ComBloc Cold War AK47ness (is that a real word?)

I say screw one on if you like it, but don't expect any changes one way or the other with your semi auto AK.

Note....The O-ring from a 2008 Harley Ultra oil plug is the right size to install on your barrel, then install the slant brake. The brake will compress the O-ring nicely just before index, and your brake will have zero wobble or play when installed this way. Hey, it's what I had laying around! LOL
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Old 01-31-2012, 07:40 PM   #7
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I have shot my AK at 100 m , prone, with and without the brake. Since my brake has carbon deposits. . . It seems as if the bullet path is being disturbed. I took off the slant brake, and my grouping shot 1 inch lower and to the left , with a 4 shot group in a 2.5moa circle. Call it luck, but I couldn't believe it. When I put the break back on, it shot about 3.5 moa center. Maybe the accuracy is being thrown off because of the carbon nodules. . .
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Old 02-01-2012, 03:26 AM   #8
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I been using the jtac muzzle break I'm not sure if it improves accuracy but it does greatly reduce felt recoil and muzzle climb which helps get you on target faster, I saw some mentioned scorching this would be a good brake for slinging lead across you truck as it directs gases out to the sides and up
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Old 02-01-2012, 10:20 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolsolid View Post
Wondering about the accuracy effects of different muzzle devices. I have the slant brake installed on my rifle, and I was just curious if taking off the slant break would help or hurt the accuracy. My belief is that it would help the AKM to become more accurate, as the gasses would vent from the muzzle more evenly. Does anyone have and data on this ?

Thanks,
:3))~

coolsolid,

I saw on You Tube once where the guy said before you sight in your AK to remove the muzzle brake? Is that what you mean? Perhaps brakes do upset the bullet path ever so slightly but maybe not enough to make a difference in a combat situation. One day I'll have to try shooting my AK without my brake and see how it prints.

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Old 02-01-2012, 10:55 AM   #10
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I know that when I tested this at 50 m, it really didn't make too much difference. When I took off the slant break at 100m, it seemed to print 2x better. Like I had said earlier, I do believe that the hard, carbon deposits inside of the slant muzzle break are disrupting the gases slightly. At 25 to 50 m, it really doesn't make any difference. But long range hits seem to be more difficult. -_-

If anyone has a vortex, could you please put in your info? I have always wondered if those muzzle devices were any good :3))
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Old 02-01-2012, 02:24 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by nalioth View Post
The AK isn't that accurate to start with.
Wrong....To an extent. (not a challenge, let me explain my thoughts)

The AK is not the worlds most inherently accurate platform, but it CAN be accurate. The general public accepts a hastily bent and assembled stamped receiver, assembled by some Gypsies that toss it together with zero regard to mechanical fitment and allignment, and shoot the absolute cheapest nasty ammo thru it, and call it innaccurate.

The M14, without argument is one of the most accurate semi/full auto battle rifles ever devised. They are used day in and day out not only as sniper rifles, but 600-1000m match rifles (see Camp Perry). Build one on a cheap cast receiver with parts that "just barely fit" drop it in a cheap stock and send it out with canted sights on top of shooting Wolf ammo thru it, and you will have a 8-10 MOA rifle that is not worth a shit. Is the M14 not accurate all of a sudden? Hell no, that particular rifle just sucks.

A well fit and assembled AK, with a nice barrel, with all due consideration given to the fitment during assembly (a better than milspec trigger don't hurt at this point) and using good ammo will shoot 2-3 MOA all day long. This is not up there with the M14s and such, but putting 3 rounds in a silver dollar at 100m is pretty darn good for a battle rifle. Mine will do it all day long. Galils do it, Valmets do it. Poly's CAN do it and I have seen the T56 "match" Chicoms do it. I have personally watched a Krebs built AK103, scoped, shoot under an inch at 100m. Once I saw that, I became interested in trying an AK.

The AK WILL FUNCTION with a mismatched hodgepodge of parts that are barely fit to spec, and that's is in itself a beauty-full thing. People accept the fact that they are "innaccurate" because the interweb and TV says so. There are millions of Gypsy built AKs out there so what the hey, AKs are innaccurate. I fell into this trap for years, but I know well better now. Accept poor assembly and haphazard part selection, and you get poor performance, regardless of the platform.

ETA: I reduced my group size 50% at 100m by simply changing the sights and getting rid of those dark stock sights. I can't believe over the last 60 years that no manufacturer besides Valmet and IMI (that I know of) figured this out and re-engineered the rear sight on their rifles. A good clean set of sights on your AK makes all the difference in the world.

Last edited by 7.62bthp; 02-01-2012 at 02:31 PM. Reason: ETA
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Old 02-01-2012, 05:04 PM   #12
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ETA: I reduced my group size 50% at 100m by simply changing the sights and getting rid of those dark stock sights.
Which sites were you using ? And yes, the AK is a very accurate platform, I have out shot AR fanboys at the range with irons, even with my crummy slant muzzle break .
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Old 02-01-2012, 07:22 PM   #13
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Which sites were you using ? And yes, the AK is a very accurate platform, I have out shot AR fanboys at the range with irons, even with my crummy slant muzzle break .
Meps....The rear notch is wider, and dead on square. The front is about 30% as wide as the notch, giving you a lot of light around the sight. Because it is also square, it gives a sharper front sight image than a round sight, which will "bleed" or ghost a little. Front sight right, groups tight. The night sight lamps are an ancillary benefit that actually work in dim/dark conditions. 2 minute install, and it doesn't look any different on the rifle 'till you look down the sights. I didn't want a ghost ring rear, as that can be just as dark in low light conditions, but admittedly the rear peep would probably be better at the range in good daylight.

http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101062

Pop that brake off and put a nut on if it is affecting your accuracy, or just over bore it a little and refinish it. That is the trick on M14 flash hiders, a little over bore with a tapered reamer. It's called a "National Match Flash Hider" when they are reamed.
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Old 02-01-2012, 07:43 PM   #14
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This is another option that is FAR better than stock for me. I call it the "Old Fart Mod" Take a triangular Swiss File and open the notch to .150. Works like a wet dream, but not as good as the Meps as the front is still round. Good for SKS too! (I cut the top out of the front sight guard on my ChiCom SKS to effect a "U" and not an "O"..That helps in low light too.)

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Old 02-02-2012, 01:11 AM   #15
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Hmm. I wonder if that sight mod could work for me ? Seems a little strange, but a better option than ghost ring.

The meps look really nice, and I do like the night sight function. Any reviews on the AMERIGLO ones ?
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Old 02-02-2012, 02:40 AM   #16
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It's an old Euro somwhere WWII era design. I don't remember where I first saw it, but did my SKS that way years ago. It actually works very nicely. Buy a spare surplus AK sight and send it to me and I will cut and refinish it for you if you would like to try it. (I'll only charge you the $5.95 or whatever priority flat rate for return) PM if you're interested.
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Old 02-02-2012, 06:51 AM   #17
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A muzzlebreak isn't going to affect the accuracy of the rifle to any significant degree, but a shooter can nonetheless benefit. Less recoil and faster re-acquisition of a target can improve the shooter's hit ratio, regardless of the potential accuracy of the weapon. I've got a PWS muzzlebreak on my SCAR 16S that tames the already meager recoil of the 5.56mm to such a degree that I have absolutely ZERO climb. I can dump a 30 rounder fast as I can fire and the recticle of my ACOG barely wavers.
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Old 02-02-2012, 09:58 AM   #18
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I can dump a 30 rounder fast as I can fire and the recticle of my ACOG barely wavers.
And that is a beautiful thing.....
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Old 02-02-2012, 02:23 PM   #19
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I have not noticed any noticeable difference in accuracy between using a brake and not using one, until.......

I installed a Bulgarian '74 FSB on my Saiga 7.62, aligned it and sighted the rifle in w/ no brake. I then installed a USA-made 24 mm brake and took it shooting again. You would have thought I was shooting a blunderbus!!! WTF, over? Took the brake off and all was good again. There was absolutely no indication of bullet strike in the brake, and the brake muzzle opening was plenty big for a 7.62 bullet. (I believe it mic'd out to about .380")

So, depending on the particular/brake hider, it can affect accuracy, especially if you get a bad one.

I have used various brakes on several different rifles, and this is the only time I have seen a negative effect.
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Old 02-02-2012, 02:26 PM   #20
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+1 to Booste . . . I should do a review on muzzle breaks vs muzzle nut vs flash hiders.
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Old 02-02-2012, 03:31 PM   #21
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This is another option that is FAR better than stock for me. I call it the "Old Fart Mod" Take a triangular Swiss File and open the notch to .150. Works like a wet dream, but not as good as the Meps as the front is still round. Good for SKS too! (I cut the top out of the front sight guard on my ChiCom SKS to effect a "U" and not an "O"..That helps in low light too.)

HK diopters is where I got this idea. the "V" is your combat range/low light position.
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Old 02-02-2012, 03:41 PM   #22
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You can test your theory for yourself. Target fire a series of rounds with the device attached, then with the device removed and compare the target results. It may or may not affect accuracy.
This is the answer...I have about 7 different muzzle devices and the best by far is the SVD style in my opinion.
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Old 02-02-2012, 03:54 PM   #23
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ZX, is the best by far in accuracy or flash suppression ?
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Old 02-04-2012, 10:05 PM   #24
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Update :

I have just bought a m16A1 type flash suppressor for my AKM, and I will see if it is more effective than the slant brake.
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Old 02-05-2012, 02:25 AM   #25
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ZX, is the best by far in accuracy or flash suppression ?
Both. I had an AIMR from CNC Warrior that was good as well...Slant brake is ok and the AK74 style is useless IMO.
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Old 02-05-2012, 01:40 PM   #26
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Both. I had an AIMR from CNC Warrior that was good as well...Slant brake is ok and the AK74 style is useless IMO.
AK74 style was one of the better for muzzle control, at least for me. But it created a bit of a side blast, with a bit of visable fire in the afternoon / overcast days.
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Old 02-05-2012, 03:57 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by coolsolid View Post
I know that when I tested this at 50 m, it really didn't make too much difference. When I took off the slant break at 100m, it seemed to print 2x better. Like I had said earlier, I do believe that the hard, carbon deposits inside of the slant muzzle break are disrupting the gases slightly. At 25 to 50 m, it really doesn't make any difference. But long range hits seem to be more difficult. -_-

If anyone has a vortex, could you please put in your info? I have always wondered if those muzzle devices were any good :3))
coolsolid,

No matter what brake you put on any way to cut down on recoil is a welcome too me. I just ordered a M-16 style cage brake as I like them and want to try it on my AK.

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Old 02-05-2012, 04:48 PM   #28
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Yea, I cannot test the flash suppressor today folks, massive thunderstorms. Will have to make a separate thread to publish my findings in the future though.
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Old 02-05-2012, 06:06 PM   #29
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Yea, I cannot test the flash suppressor today folks, massive thunderstorms. Will have to make a separate thread to publish my findings in the future though.
Man thats weird, just up north of ya and not even raining.
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Old 02-05-2012, 06:33 PM   #30
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Yea, we got so much hail, about the size of .75 cal projectiles. The rain has stopped, but I'm sure that the range is really muddy and probably closed. Out on 1604, it did not rain too much, but here, a little north of downtown, it was the apocalypse !
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Old 02-05-2012, 06:54 PM   #31
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I tested a bunch of brakes vs no brake afew years ago and posted results here.

Basically with the 7.62x39 AK the 74 style brake improved accuracy, the slant brake made it worse but only marginally, the Krink brake killed accuracy.

YMMV
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Old 02-05-2012, 06:57 PM   #32
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Yea, we got so much hail, about the size of .75 cal projectiles. The rain has stopped, but I'm sure that the range is really muddy and probably closed. Out on 1604, it did not rain too much, but here, a little north of downtown, it was the apocalypse !
Damn, that sounds pretty nasty. We got lucky the other week, had a tornado watch, ended up touching Austin a bit was all. Plenty of hail though that night also!

Was going to head up torwards liberty hill today, there was a Meet'n'shoot from another board Im on, but to damn cold!
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Old 02-06-2012, 10:33 AM   #33
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Yea, I cannot test the flash suppressor today folks, massive thunderstorms. Will have to make a separate thread to publish my findings in the future though.
coolsolid,

I'm glad your finally getting some rain! You guys need it badly.

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Old 02-06-2012, 12:00 PM   #34
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coolsolid,

I'm glad your finally getting some rain! You guys need it badly.

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Man, we have been getting more then enough the last month or so. Im ready for some heat again.


Coolsolid, what range you go to usually? I've been checking out lonestar up here in lockhart recenty.
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:17 PM   #35
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Yea man I hit Black Hawk shooting range out in Atascosa County. It is off of Jaratt and Shepard road.

http://www.blackhawkshootingrange.co...e/Welcome.html

There's the linky :3))

I also shoot at my buddy's ranch, and we love to varmint rabbits/cottontails/jackrabbits there. Every once in a while, lots of Quail come down to rest in the tall grass in front of his property. Jaimenv ( another user here in the boards) shoots with my team every once in a while out at Blackhawk. It's a nice place to shoot, but at the ranch, you can make hits out to 500+ m.
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