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Old 01-19-2012, 02:08 PM   #1
Rollthelosingdice
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Default Drilling detent pin front sight

Hey, I need to drill out a hole on my Polytech front sight base for the detent pin. Does anyone here know how to do this or have an illustration how how the detent pin works? I don't understand how it works and need some information before I take a leap in the dark here. Thanks!!
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Old 01-19-2012, 03:19 PM   #2
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Mike,

Before you do that let me get you some pictures of what I want to send you. What Iím working on for your barrel threading issue is a single solution that includes the sight. Itís a new product for us and youíll be one of the 1st to have it. Theyíre on me at no charge if you want to go this route. I'll have something for you this afternoon that I'll post here and in your other thread concerning your barrel.

The snow has stop but we've been getting rain for two days like I've never seen. If it doesnít let up soon I'm going to start building an ark. I've got two major salmon streams that are my western and northern property lines, which are so full I'm concerned they are going to start doing mass erosion and take out a couple huge maple trees that hang over the bank right up against my back deck.

I still have no electricity and am on generators with no clue when I'll be back on the grid. They get the lines back up and within hours they're down again. I'll send some pictures of my two creeks off the deck on the back of my house when I send the pictures of my fix for you, and you can see what I'm talking about.

Jerry

Last edited by Gorbachov; 01-20-2012 at 06:17 PM.
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Old 01-19-2012, 05:14 PM   #3
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Thanks Jerry!! I'll be patient and wait on it of course.

- Mike
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Old 01-20-2012, 03:44 PM   #4
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Mike,

WellÖafter putting in an all nighter I finally have something for you to look at. Iíve been working on this project for a couple months getting it ready so we can have these available when our new site goes live and the 1st four are hot off the CNC machine center and already out the door. I had them sold before ever having made the 1st one and Iím getting ready to do another batch. If you want one Iíll send it to you and chalk it up to free advertising.

I apologize for leaving you hanging so long, but I needed to get some pictures of them before they shipped so I had that out of the way for our website. The PSL sight sits about 3/8 higher than the SVD, so weíre CNC machining the base that uses an actual Iszmash SVD dovetail mounted hood and flash hider. We have these either as a fixed combo, or as separate items where the sight is pinned or soldered and the flash hider threads on.

Iíve also attached a picture of a threaded PSL barrel with a steel rule so I can get some numbers from you on how we machine this so it fits your barrel without you having to do anything else to it. What I would suggest is we send you the combo and instead of pinning it on use silver solder. Thatís what we use on one of the assault rifles we build and itís really nice, as you can align the sight while the solder is still molten.

Iíve got some pictures I can post showing how we do it. You eliminate those nasty pins that are a nightmare if your sight is not right on. Once youíve pinned it youíre stuck with it and silver solder can be reheated if itís canted to one side and is easy to realign. You can buy silver solder at a hobby shop and use a regular propane torch after roughing up and cleaning the soldering surfaces with some emery cloth.

You canít import SVD parts out of Russia directly to the US so weíre getting our Izhmash SVD dovetail horizontal adjustable sight hoods and flash hiders out of a country in Europe other than Russia, and I have to buy these in pretty good size quantities to get a price that makes sense for resale. I hate tying up a bunch of money in inventory and Iíd prefer to order what I know I can move in a relatively short period

For anybody interested in these send me an email at jerry.hunt@blackhorsearsenal.com, or call me at 541 487-4246. I need to get a feel for how many to run on this next batch, so for those interested Iím taking preorders. I donít have an exact price yet, but their going to be somewhere between $150 - $200. Thatís cheap considering the exact same sight for the SVD on Gun Broker goes for around $400.

Iíll be unavailable for the afternoon as I have to get some sleep. Iíve been burning the candle at both ends the last 3-4 days and at 60 with having had numerous heart attacks I need to take a break on the pillow for a few hours. Iíll be back around this evening on the forum and we can talk about what you want to do. For anyone wanting one of these get in touch with me and Iíll put you on the list.

Gorbachov (aka) Jerry



Last edited by Gorbachov; 01-25-2012 at 06:48 AM.
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Old 01-20-2012, 04:40 PM   #5
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Badass! Do you have a pic of one installed?
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Old 01-20-2012, 05:39 PM   #6
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Will it have the bayo lug and front sight detent for threaded barrels? Will it be a straight sight swap for the PSL?

If so, then I'll buy one!
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Old 01-20-2012, 05:49 PM   #7
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That looks good Jerry! I may be interested on the Hood and Flash Hider Combo. I am actually getting a IZHMASH TIGER from a good friend of mine which he bought NEW during the mid 1990's in Guam. He is selling it to me for $1100. I was actually with him when he bought it back in the Guam for $1500 back in the mid 1990's. The TIGER he has does not have a Flash Hider installed. Do you have one that can fit the IZHMASH TIGER? Thanks!
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Old 01-20-2012, 07:35 PM   #8
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Art,

The only one I have is the original I bought to do the 3-D CAD modeling off. I'm not sure I want to sell it though, as we hang onto components like this that we've used for prototyping. There are a couple options we could pursue; we could make you one, which now that we have all the CAD files I'd just machine the base to fit the SVD versus the PSL. The hood and flash hider are already Izhmash parts.

Or you can pick one up off Gun Broker. That's where I got mine for CAD modeling used for $350. There is a fellow that has them listed new all the time for around $400. We're about half that price, but he's got them in stock and until I get a feel for pre-order numbers I'm not going to have a definite delivery date. It could be a month or more wait.

You literally can't tell these apart from the Izhmash ones. They are within .020" - .030" the same dimensionally, other than the PSL has about 3/8" added to the height. You wouldn't need a press to install these. The Russian ones are pinned on and you'd just need a small punch from the hardware store and hammer to remove and reinstall the pins.

Let me know if I can help you on this, I'd love to make you one.

Jerry

Last edited by Gorbachov; 01-21-2012 at 03:51 AM.
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Old 01-20-2012, 08:22 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PTGT_Neon
Will it have the bayo lug and front sight detent for threaded barrels? Will it be a straight sight swap for the PSL?

If so, then I'll buy one!
Brian,

Yes it will have the bayo lug just like the ones in the picture, which are the 1st four we made that shipped out today. Is the front sight detent youíre speaking of for the spring loaded positioning pin? If so the answer is yes! These are an exact swap on the PSL with no modifications.

I donít have one on my PSL yet but will in the next week. Iím so far behind on projects and paperwork I havenít had time to install mine; kind of like the cobbler whose kids have no shoes! Itís going on one of my PSLs that has all the original one-off prototypes weíve made on it.

Itís in the picture I posted in the thread to ďRollthelosingdiceĒ, with my three daughters from 2006 that Iíve reattached. The stock and forearm on the PSL my daughter on the right is holding are the original prototype SVD stock with aluminum CNC trunnion adapter and ABS forearm.

You asked about the scope on the PSL my daughter with the red pickup was shooting in another post, who is the one holding the Krinkov. Sheís now 27 and my only single one out of 5 kids. I bought two of these scopes and youíll see the other one on the AK my daughter on the left is holding.

Iíve never bothered to figure out who made them, but theyíre Russian and fantastic quality. They are 4-8x42 and at the time I bought them, which was about 15 years ago, they were one feature and price level below the PO 3-9x42M (1P21). Theyíre great for hunting!

Jerry


Last edited by Gorbachov; 01-21-2012 at 04:46 AM.
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Old 01-20-2012, 09:27 PM   #10
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Brian,

I may have spoken too soon on the front sight detent for the spring loaded positioning pin. We havenít made that version and when I 1st thought about your question it seemed like a simple mater of milling the indents around the back OD of the flash hider.

But there is more to it! Weíd need to develop the spring loaded pin portion of it for the sight base and that is not something weíve looked into. Tell you honestly Iíve never had the pin mechanism apart so Iím clueless how they go about it till I do.

We can literally build anything out of metal, polymers, or annealed glass and I have to say we have the technology and manufacturing equipment to make these sight bases too, but I donít have enough information yet till we take one apart and have our people look at it.

Jerry

Last edited by Gorbachov; 01-20-2012 at 09:41 PM.
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Old 01-20-2012, 09:35 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorbachov
... till we take one apart and have our people look at it.
Its pretty simple, Jerry. You just drill a tiny hole, put in a spring and ball or a stepped diameter pin and then punch the end of the hole with the spring and ball inside, reducing the opening so the pin or ball can't jump out. Its the same way they put the ball in a ratchet to hold the socket on the square.

You have to decide whether a ball can work or whether it has to be a stepped pin.
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Old 01-20-2012, 09:50 PM   #12
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The detent is cake. The detent pin has a notch in it. The front lateral pin in the sight keeps the detent pin from popping al the way out. And there's a spring behind it.

http://www.cncwarrior.com/shop/23294...in-and-spring/

I don't have a ball or a stepped pin. The spring just pushes on the pin so it sticks out. Push the pin inward and then the muzzle attachment can be screwed on or off. It's cleverly simple. The only real trick to it is that the detent pin bore is siamesed very close to the barrel bore.

I can drill it out myself if there's enough metal behind the front lateral pin for the spring and pin.
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Old 01-20-2012, 09:57 PM   #13
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Are the spring, ball and or pin put in from the front of the sight base? I'm not sure I understand how a stepped diameter pin would work unless you used a punch with a hole in the end that would allow the pin to go up inside it so you could put an indent around the entire diameter of the hole to reduced the size.

If this is how itíd done I would think it would take a significant hit on the punch to close the hole OD enough to catch and stop the pin from coming back out. I understand the concept...but I guess I'll need to get my hands on a sight that has a pin and take it apart. Actually I can use the one off my PSL when I put my new SVD one on! Guess I know what I'm doing this weekend : )

Last edited by Gorbachov; 01-21-2012 at 03:57 AM.
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Old 01-20-2012, 10:19 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorbachov
Are the spring, ball and or pin put in from the front of the sight base? I'm not sure I understand how a stepped diameter pin would work
It's not stepped,It has a relief notch in it. It's held in the same way an AK firing pin is retained.It's spring loaded and the front barrel pin that holds the front sight on retains the detent plunger.Remove the front barrel pin like you are taking the front sight off and the detent plunger slides out.

Last edited by a-kmanator; 01-20-2012 at 10:43 PM.
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Old 01-20-2012, 10:49 PM   #15
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It just dawned on me that this post was started by ďRollthelosingdiceĒ concerning this exact issue. I have multiple guns with these on the sights on them; Iíve just never had a reason to figure out how they workÖnow I do! Iíll take the sight off my PSL that I use as my guinea pig for new products weíve developed this weekend so I can put the SVD style one on and get some pictures. Iíll have a thorough understanding of all this in the next few days. I guess from what Iím hearing Brian it sounds like Iím back to a ďYESĒ on your question. This is a picture I posted in the forum a while back of the gun Iím talking about.

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Old 01-21-2012, 12:51 AM   #16
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The forward component pin traps the plunger on a PSL FSB. But since you are not desinging a press and pin FSB you can use another metghod or just use a crioss roll pin etc., to hold the plun=ger in the absence of a component pin.
Using your FSB the rifle will then have two bayo lugs? Correct?
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Old 01-21-2012, 01:34 AM   #17
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My rifle didn't come with a bayo lug. And if it did, it wouldn't work with the SVD/Tabuk style flash hider in that it wouldn't support a bayonet. So a bayo lug would need to be on the back of the front sight block for it to work and be at the right length. Maybe even cantilevered back a little ways. Or have the back of the sight block have a short sleeve that covers a 1/4" or so of the barrel behind the sight block to support the lug.

So I guess the people with a PSL that has the bayo lug fastened on the barrel further back might be interested in a sight block without the lug. Or they can just pick a lug and lop one off with a Dremel.
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Old 01-21-2012, 03:06 AM   #18
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This is all great info!

Man I hate getting oldÖI think I must have Alzheimerís. Weíve built 1,000s of AK-74s and they all have a detent pin. I posted these pictures in another thread showing static pictures of our new website and this is about 2,000 AK-74s going through our factory at one time. The top picture is one of my son-in-laws this Christmas out shooting with my girls. This is an AK-74 we built in 2009 and was the 1st time it had ever been shot other than test firing in production. I add a gun of every type we build to my personal collection when we produce something different. I guess I need to start paying more attention to what we do. Weíve had crates of these sights going through our plant and I donít think Iíve ever even had one in my hand.

Itís hard to say at this point what all the variables are going to be with how these SVD / PSL sights eventually get configured as a final product line but after what Iíve learned here today, we have no choice than to have a detent pin with the threaded flash hider. I really like soldering front sights on, which is what we do on CETMES and HK-91s. You can see a couple 1,000 of these going through production at the same time as the AK-74s. Problem with solder is no pin to hold the detent pin in place. Any ideas? Weíll just have to wait and see what people want, but initially weíll be pretty flexible. Once the sightís CAD files are loaded into the CNC machine center itís a piece of cake to alter programming to make all kinds of variations.




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Old 01-21-2012, 09:39 AM   #19
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Jerry will these work om my PSL with pressed and pinned on muzzle brake as the one I have there are no threads under the brake?? I would really like to get ride of the one i have..
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Old 01-21-2012, 04:23 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcus5
Jerry will these work om my PSL with pressed and pinned on muzzle brake as the one I have there are no threads under the brake?? I would really like to get ride of the one i have..
Yes!
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Old 01-21-2012, 06:50 PM   #21
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I don't think I would use solder unless the sight didn't fit tightly. If it fits tightly then I'll be fine hammering the thing on and fighting to push those lateral solid pins in there :-)
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Old 01-22-2012, 01:16 AM   #22
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Jerry,

I'd go with option 1 as you mentioned: "one we could make you one, which now that we have all the CAD files I'd just machine the base to fit the SVD versus the PSL."

I'm interested on the "SVD Hooded Front Sight Flash Hider" for the TIGER that I'll be getting and the "Hooded Front Sight" for my PSL as well! Include me on your list as well. Thanks!!!

Art (aka) islandfocus2



Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorbachov
Art,

The only one I have is the original I bought to do the 3-D CAD modeling off. I'm not sure I want to sell it though, as we hang onto components like this that we've used for prototyping. There are a couple options we could pursue; we could make you one, which now that we have all the CAD files I'd just machine the base to fit the SVD versus the PSL. The hood and flash hider are already Izhmash parts.

Or you can pick one up off Gun Broker. That's where I got mine for CAD modeling used for $350. There is a fellow that has them listed new all the time for around $400. We're about half that price, but he's got them in stock and until I get a feel for pre-order numbers I'm not going to have a definite delivery date. It could be a month or more wait.

You literally can't tell these apart from the Izhmash ones. They are within .020" - .030" the same dimensionally, other than the PSL has about 3/8" added to the height. You wouldn't need a press to install these. The Russian ones are pinned on and you'd just need a small punch from the hardware store and hammer to remove and reinstall the pins.

Let me know if I can help you on this, I'd love to make you one.

Jerry
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