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Old 07-16-2017, 10:14 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by GoNoGo View Post
Making an occasional profit in the course of bettering our personal firearms hobby/collection is not illegal but



I'm not exactly sure what the criteria for "engaging in a business" is, but there ^^^ it is, straight off the BATFE information hotline, so we might be living in a communist state
Exactly what I held to be true. About 6 months ago one of my friends wanted a VEPR real bad, and I had a dealer who was going to sell one to him. He fell on bad times before he could buy it and could not afford it anymore. I told the dealer I would buy it and hold it for him until he could buy it from me at cost. He abruptly refused to sell to me, because he would be knowingly selling a firearm to a person who desired to sell it.

In my case proving my intent in that case would be pretty simple, as I admitted it, but I think it could almost as easily be proved for those who snap up multiples of rifles just after a ban. I think their desire is pretty straight forward...
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Old 07-16-2017, 10:41 PM   #72
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I agree to a point, but I dont think they will maintain at $1300-1600 as the gougers are asking, and currently getting for them ( just saw and FM47-11 from KVAR (sold by KVAR) today go for $1375. I think they will drop and hold at $1000-1200, which is regrettable, but understandable due to the limited quantity imported.

This thread is also not a bitch thread for missing out, many on here have one or more of the FMs, and definitely the slant models, its is just a vent thread to voice that we should treat our own better than immediately try and turn an obscene profit.
Yup... I have 5 Veprs, so I'm definitely am not whining or upset about missing out on anything.
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Old 07-17-2017, 08:29 AM   #73
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What about the polytechs ak 3-4 thousand is that price gouging they
Sold,for.3-4 hundred the only difference is 30 years ?
So now IS the time to buy a fm like the op said there isnt alot
in this country they were only out for a year an if your waiting for
Any new shipment they will be more which will re set the market
My .02 cents
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Old 07-17-2017, 11:14 PM   #74
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What about the polytechs ak 3-4 thousand is that price gouging they
Sold,for.3-4 hundred the only difference is 30 years ?
So now IS the time to buy a fm like the op said there isnt alot
in this country they were only out for a year an if your waiting for
Any new shipment they will be more which will re set the market
My .02 cents
I would say yes, those 30 years do make a difference. What makes a marlin with a JM stamp on the barrel worth double than the current Remlins, even though they are good quality. I believe that time does make a difference and those inflated prices are due to collectors value, not an initial gouge by our own. I still think that in a couple months, the price will reduce a little to just above MSRP, but then 10 years and on, it will be like you say, and the collector's value will be much higher.
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Old 07-19-2017, 11:43 PM   #75
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Just to be clear, mine's the type-2 rear sight block and front sight... you'd still suggest I keep it ?




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Love my squareback .308 purchased with firewood in much worse condition. Probably the one and only time I got in on something early. Also have an Atlantic converted 7.62 and V12 purchased ahead of time, but the squareback was my best score.
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Old 07-21-2017, 09:44 AM   #76
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So I am fortunate enough to have a few of the newly banned "Devil" rifles and shotguns, but I am always on the hunt for another good deal on a VEPR. I am actually looking for two more to complete (maybe) my collection.

I just find it so funny and really sad that not ever 72 hours after President Trump adds Molot to the sanctions list that not only is there a run on every vendor that stocks them ( which is expected and understandable) but also there are those of us who bought one or more who then relist them at $300-$700 to even $1000 markup, as well as several vendors doing the same thing.

I get it, these are the times we live in, it is just sad, in my opinion how members of our own community will rise out of the woodwork to scalp others before the ink is dry on the word BAN.
My two cents for a year i've been wanting a Russian Vepr AK 47-11 kept seeing them for $999.00,kept procrastinating. Then the ban,shame on me I wound up getting gouged by paying $1467.00each bought two. My fault no one twisted my arm,anyway I don't plan on ever selling them so now I'll enjoy and shoot. So far imho one of the best out there.
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Old 07-21-2017, 10:52 AM   #77
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Thanks guys, I've decided to keep the 308 square back. Even if I don't like the type-2 irons, I be using RS with optic anyway since it's 308. Last reason, it's my only AK chambered in this caliber and I already have 4 extra (10-rd ?) Molot mags that I got for free.
You can swap the type 2 irons for a standard rsb with a little work, I believe recall seeing a thread where someone did it a while back (arfcom I think)

edit: here it is, looks like you'll need a little split sleeve to do it properly, but if you go this route and already have to remove the gas block you can also remove the barrel band, install a handguard retainer, and get the FM look for relatively little effort. As stated previously, an RPK handguard retainer can be fit to a standard vepr barrel with a relatively shallow retainer groove.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_4_80/1...Moar-pics.html

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Old 07-22-2017, 11:35 AM   #78
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My two cents for a year i've been wanting a Russian Vepr AK 47-11 kept seeing them for $999.00,kept procrastinating. Then the ban,shame on me I wound up getting gouged by paying $1467.00each bought two. My fault no one twisted my arm,anyway I don't plan on ever selling them so now I'll enjoy and shoot. So far imho one of the best out there.
Good on you to drop that and basically buy a third rifle. I can't bring myself to go that route.
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Old 07-22-2017, 11:36 AM   #79
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You can swap the type 2 irons for a standard rsb with a little work, I believe recall seeing a thread where someone did it a while back (arfcom I think)

edit: here it is, looks like you'll need a little split sleeve to do it properly, but if you go this route and already have to remove the gas block you can also remove the barrel band, install a handguard retainer, and get the FM look for relatively little effort. As stated previously, an RPK handguard retainer can be fit to a standard vepr barrel with a relatively shallow retainer groove.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_4_80/1...Moar-pics.html
Very interesting info Es. Thanks for sharing. I would never have thought of doing that, but the two Type 2 sight VEPRs I have, those T2 sights are serving the purpose, but it is great to know the swap is possible.
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Old 07-31-2017, 03:23 PM   #80
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Ok. Try taking someone's property. That has a legal term and it doesn't end well.
Reading is Fundamental. When one says "I can take it" in the context of the post you quoted, it means "I can tolerate it". Such as "tell me if my investment went to zero, I can take it.

"I can take it" in the context of the post you quoted, does NOT mean to acquire it without the owners permission.

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So, one of the sale threads that we looked at a few days ago, now has another gouger boasting he has had $1300 offers and turned them down, not high enough...he can wait. Like was said before here, the worst parts of human nature.

Check it out.

http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=313205
Why do you hate the free market so much? Because no single entity can control it? You love price controls? I'm calling socialist on this one.

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My two cents for a year i've been wanting a Russian Vepr AK 47-11 kept seeing them for $999.00,kept procrastinating. Then the ban,shame on me I wound up getting gouged by paying $1467.00each bought two. My fault no one twisted my arm,anyway I don't plan on ever selling them so now I'll enjoy and shoot. So far imho one of the best out there.
So you are saying you freely chose to purchase an item, without any duress, and someone gouged you?

Guns don't kill, people kill. Quit blaming the inanimate object, or in this case, an idea or concept you dislike, on your own actions. If anything, you gouged yourself by procrastinating.

What's next, the devil make you do it? Personal responsibility, guy.
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Old 07-31-2017, 03:59 PM   #81
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Reading is Fundamental. When one says "I can take it" in the context of the post you quoted, it means "I can tolerate it". Such as "tell me if my investment went to zero, I can take it.

"I can take it" in the context of the post you quoted, does NOT mean to acquire it without the owners permission.



Why do you hate the free market so much? Because no single entity can control it? You love price controls? I'm calling socialist on this one.



So you are saying you freely chose to purchase an item, without any duress, and someone gouged you?

Guns don't kill, people kill. Quit blaming the inanimate object, or in this case, an idea or concept you dislike, on your own actions. If anything, you gouged yourself by procrastinating.

What's next, the devil make you do it? Personal responsibility, guy.
Hmm, either you just completely misunderstood the three people you just quoted or I smell troll.
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Old 07-31-2017, 04:35 PM   #82
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Hmm, either you just completely misunderstood the three people you just quoted or I smell troll.
I first posted on this thread almost a month ago. I have several posts on this thread. You didn't post anything pertinent to the topic of this very thread: "VEPR Price Gouging".

New user whose first post on this thread is calling troll. You have to be the troll here. Or do you lack the ability to read this thread from page one? I blame your public education.

If you smell-t it, you dealt it, jackass.
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Old 07-31-2017, 08:15 PM   #83
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The only artificial price in a marketplace is the one that doesn't result in a sale.

If someone asks $1000 for a Century RAS-47 and a person freely chooses to buy it, it is not an artificial price, it is the price the deal was executed at, or as we call it just the price.
So, you're saying that if said person were to choose not to purchase the $1000 RAS-47 then that would automatically mean the price is artificial?
Wrong, even big-name companies get turned down from time to time.

frtalbert was correct in his use of the term "artificial" regarding prices.
In fact, his example was perfect.
The price increase he spoke of had not yet been enforced due to supply and demand, but rather created by people and/or vendors (artificial pricing) who wanted to increase the prices because of what was to come. If the product is soon to be removed from the market (due to no more supply), then the mark-up can increase however much they desire. Problem is, people are only willing to spend so much...
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Old 07-31-2017, 10:28 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by ohlongarm View Post
My two cents for a year i've been wanting a Russian Vepr AK 47-11 kept seeing them for $999.00,kept procrastinating. Then the ban,shame on me I wound up getting gouged by paying $1467.00each bought two. My fault no one twisted my arm,anyway I don't plan on ever selling them so now I'll enjoy and shoot. So far imho one of the best out there.
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Originally Posted by NewMexican View Post
So you are saying you freely chose to purchase an item, without any duress, and someone gouged you?

Guns don't kill, people kill. Quit blaming the inanimate object, or in this case, an idea or concept you dislike, on your own actions. If anything, you gouged yourself by procrastinating.

What's next, the devil make you do it? Personal responsibility, guy.
NewMexican, do you know what the definition of "Price Gouging" even is?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Price Gouge
Price gouging is a term that refers to the practice of raising the price of goods, services, or commodities, to an unreasonable or unfair level. Such an increase in price is often a result of a sudden increase of demand and shortage of goods, such as in the event of a natural disaster or other crisis, and it is illegal in most jurisdictions.
So yes, he was priced gouged. The fact that he purchased it willing and freely doesn't change that fact...

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Originally Posted by NewMexican View Post
Why do you hate the free market so much? Because no single entity can control it? You love price controls? I'm calling socialist on this one.
You can both believe price gouging is morally wrong, but still believe in free market. Just like some may believe cursing is morally wrong, but still support free speech and other's right to curse..

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Old 07-31-2017, 10:37 PM   #85
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If after the word banned was used, you did not know and expect this to come about, I would have to assume your still shittin yellow..
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Old 07-31-2017, 10:38 PM   #86
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I am just curious.....

Who is the OldMexican ?? I see a NewMexican ??
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Old 08-01-2017, 12:13 AM   #87
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Man, NewMexican is on a roll today. To respond to your sir. I do not hate the free market, I love the free market. the free market is the reason why I am able to have what I have. What I do hate is people and business and who immediately after word of a pending threat/ban/thing/whatever raise their prices and start to broadcast that this is the next rarest item...ever.

Earlier in this thread, someone asked if it was still price gouging for people to sell preban CHICOM rifles for $2-3K. I say now, I call that appreciation. Think of this as a car market. go back to 1950-60. You buy a corvet brand new off the lot for $3-10K ( don't know exact prices, but we can all agree the dollar was worth a lot more back then). Did that same vette jump in value to the $70-120K that it would be today if taken care of, had low mileage, original parts, etc...NO it depreciated off the lot, then as time went on and they became rarer the value increased...

So I ask HOW can a rifle I bought yesterday for $1k be worth $1500 today without artificial market inflation by gougers...it can't. Now give 10-15 years, that same banned FM VEPR I think will fetch $2k, but that is called appreciation and collector value...it does NOT happen overnight.
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Old 08-01-2017, 04:03 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by frtalbert View Post
So I am fortunate enough to have a few of the newly banned "Devil" rifles and shotguns, but I am always on the hunt for another good deal on a VEPR. I am actually looking for two more to complete (maybe) my collection.

I just find it so funny and really sad that not ever 72 hours after President Trump adds Molot to the sanctions list that not only is there a run on every vendor that stocks them ( which is expected and understandable) but also there are those of us who bought one or more who then relist them at $300-$700 to even $1000 markup, as well as several vendors doing the same thing.

I get it, these are the times we live in, it is just sad, in my opinion how members of our own community will rise out of the woodwork to scalp others before the ink is dry on the word BAN.
I definitely got taken two Vepr AK 47-11 $1466.00 each shipped. Glad I have them,they are a work of art.PS no one made me buy them it was my choice.
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Old 08-01-2017, 04:37 PM   #89
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So, you're saying that if said person were to choose not to purchase the $1000 RAS-47 then that would automatically mean the price is artificial?
Wrong, even big-name companies get turned down from time to time.

frtalbert was correct in his use of the term "artificial" regarding prices.
In fact, his example was perfect.
The price increase he spoke of had not yet been enforced due to supply and demand, but rather created by people and/or vendors (artificial pricing) who wanted to increase the prices because of what was to come. If the product is soon to be removed from the market (due to no more supply), then the mark-up can increase however much they desire. Problem is, people are only willing to spend so much...
No, not if "said" person chose not to purchase the $1000 RAS-47, if NOBODY chose to purchase it, the price would be artificial. If "said" person were to freely pass on the deal and the next guy were to freely enter into a purchase agreement, the $1000 RAS-47 price would NOT be artificial. Get it?

Also, what does the size of the participants in a transaction have to do with it? If a "big-name' company were to get turned down on a price where NO ONE freely chose to purchase, then yes, that price is artificial. I will go back to my original point: The only price that is artificial is the one that does NOT result in a sale. If you don't get it now, no helping you.

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Originally Posted by praxidike View Post
NewMexican, do you know what the definition of "Price Gouging" even is?

So yes, he was priced gouged. The fact that he purchased it willing and freely doesn't change that fact...

You can both believe price gouging is morally wrong, but still believe in free market. Just like some may believe cursing is morally wrong, but still support free speech and other's right to curse..
There is not such thing as price gouging in a freely executed transaction. Re: My point above. Gun to the head transaction is a different story.

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I am just curious.....

Who is the OldMexican ?? I see a NewMexican ??
Your posts seem sort of Libertarian so I'll I go easy on you. From the context of the name as well as the state flag of the Great State of New Mexico, I would have figured you would have gotten the state's rights platform. I routinely call this nation, "These United States" in my posts so as to reinforce the notion that the power should rest with the states. Our founders so greatly knew that that is what would keep a large and powerful state such as Texas (or California, just not geographically adjacent in this example) from forcing its will on a less powerful state such as New Mexico.

Do you get it now?

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Man, NewMexican is on a roll today. To respond to your sir. I do not hate the free market, I love the free market. the free market is the reason why I am able to have what I have. What I do hate is people and business and who immediately after word of a pending threat/ban/thing/whatever raise their prices and start to broadcast that this is the next rarest item...ever.
Are you so simple as to not understand the speculation aspect of selling? No matter the reason, once that person owns the item, it is his to do whatever he wants with it. He may keep it, he may gift it, he may ask ten times the price five minutes later for it. The point is, it is his property.

Just as the money you have in your pocket is yours to either buy it or not buy it. You get to chose. Did you choose to buy the other man's property for what he was asking? Then, if it makes you feel better, you got gouged by your own stupidity. However, you may NOT blame others for your actions.

Nanny State much, comrade?

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Originally Posted by frtalbert View Post
Earlier in this thread, someone asked if it was still price gouging for people to sell preban CHICOM rifles for $2-3K. I say now, I call that appreciation. Think of this as a car market. go back to 1950-60. You buy a corvet brand new off the lot for $3-10K ( don't know exact prices, but we can all agree the dollar was worth a lot more back then). Did that same vette jump in value to the $70-120K that it would be today if taken care of, had low mileage, original parts, etc...NO it depreciated off the lot, then as time went on and they became rarer the value increased...

So I ask HOW can a rifle I bought yesterday for $1k be worth $1500 today without artificial market inflation by gougers...it can't. Now give 10-15 years, that same banned FM VEPR I think will fetch $2k, but that is called appreciation and collector value...it does NOT happen overnight.
Are you suggesting someone should CONTROL the time value of money? It seems you feel that some people's investment grow faster than you would like? The invisible hand of the marketplace decides that. That is the free market. It is certainly not YOU whining about it took 40 years for this Corvette to attain this value, and this guy doubled his money in one day so that is gouging.

Would you mind describing the level of education you have attained? I would suggest you have no understanding of our economic system. The free market is absolutely not the reason why you are able to have what you have. The system we operate under is government controlled market. You see, U.S. hegemony is largely responsible for your standard of living. Governments of the world are in a turf war for the planet's resources to the benefit of their political cronies. Why do you think Hilliary signed off on Russia having control of 20% of the U.S. uranium resources?

Your standard of living is based on the fact that the federal government gives out huge welfare to every aspect of society. I'm sure you don't know anything about the economics of milk, for example, but how do you think you are able to get $2.50 per gallon milk in your grocery stores? I'll give you a hint. Entitlements. You see, you think you are entitled to cheap milk. The free markets says otherwise, but the socialist in government really want you to have cheap milk. The same reason we are forced to accept ethanol. The free market has no place for more expensive (and less energy content) alternatives to gasoline. However, the Presidential Election cycle starts in Iowa. So magically, and against the free market, you have government making up the difference with welfare.

Couple that with lawyers and lobbyists writing the rules against the everyday man for the benefit of the most powerful and you never really had a chance. Your current social strata was set for you when you were born to your parents. Some of us got lucky and some didn't...
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Old 08-01-2017, 07:37 PM   #90
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There is not such thing as price gouging in a freely executed transaction. Re: My point above. Gun to the head transaction is a different story.
OMG... Price gouging has NOTHING to do with whether there's a transaction or not. It has everything to do with the seller's actions. Like I stated before, you're debating a concept that you clearly do not understand.

Here's another description of the term that you'll ignore, so I do not even know why I'm wasting my time.

Quote:
Price gouging is a pejorative term referring to when a seller spikes the prices of goods, services or commodities to a level much higher than is considered reasonable or fair, and is considered exploitative, potentially to an unethical extent.
If CTD was selling Veprs for $700, found out about the ban, and then spiked the price to $1100 (which the consensus would be that price is unreasonable at this current date and time) to exploit the fact that a ban was just put into place, that is price gouging. If John Doe agrees to pay that price, even if he does so willingly, he can very well be said to have been "price gouged" because he purchased a price gouged Vepr. Has nothing to do with Free Market, and everything to do with perception and ethics.

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Old 08-01-2017, 10:10 PM   #91
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Got a 54R Vepr that cleaned up nicely with a stock.

Told myself I wouldn't buy another Vepr until there was an established spare parts supply. I kinda think I made the right decision. Now I'm wondering if it should be my first ever sale.
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Old 08-01-2017, 11:32 PM   #92
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OMG... Price gouging has NOTHING to do with whether there's a transaction or not. It has everything to do with the seller's actions. Like I stated before, you're debating a concept that you clearly do not understand.

Here's another description of the term that you'll ignore, so I do not even know why I'm wasting my time.



If CTD was selling Veprs for $700, found out about the ban, and then spiked the price to $1100 (which the consensus would be that price is unreasonable at this current date and time) to exploit the fact that a ban was just put into place, that is price gouging. If John Doe agrees to pay that price, even if he does so willingly, he can very well be said to have been "price gouged" because he purchased a price gouged Vepr. Has nothing to do with Free Market, and everything to do with perception and ethics.
Playing Devil's Advocate here. If John Doe is willing to pay $1100 isn't it worth that? That may not be the prevailing rate, but as long as someone is willing to pay it then that's its value. I have always heard this when dealing with collectibles. A rare baseball card might be "worth" a million dollars on paper, but until you find someone willing and able to pay that it's really worth nothing.

It's still unethical for people to try and manipulate others unfairly for increased profit though and they deserve to be shamed and shunned.
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All the power [the State] has is what society gives it, plus what it confiscates from time to time on one pretext or another;
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Old 08-02-2017, 01:13 AM   #93
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Playing Devil's Advocate here. If John Doe is willing to pay $1100 isn't it worth that? That may not be the prevailing rate, but as long as someone is willing to pay it then that's its value. I have always heard this when dealing with collectibles. A rare baseball card might be "worth" a million dollars on paper, but until you find someone willing and able to pay that it's really worth nothing.

It's still unethical for people to try and manipulate others unfairly for increased profit though and they deserve to be shamed and shunned.
Yes, it's worth that to him if he's willing to pay it, but that has nothing to do with price gouging. You're describing a Free Market situation. If there was a water shortage, for on extreme example, and the only store in town wanted to exploit the situation by charging $1000 per gallon of water, it would both be price gouging and worth it to me to pay the $1000 for the water. Just because I decided to buy the water doesn't mean I wasn't priced gouged also.

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Old 08-02-2017, 09:51 AM   #94
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After initial hoopla, prices will go back to levels close before ban. Look into the Saigas...At this point, if you have missed initial "bus on vepr" - screw it, i would wait. Honestly. Of course i could be wrong, but as much as i love veprs, i would never pay $1500 for it. Not a fkn chance.
You hit the nail on the head, as usual rob. I love my Veprs, but there isn't an AK on earth I would pay 1500$ for.
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Old 08-02-2017, 09:52 AM   #95
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Your posts seem sort of Libertarian so I'll I go easy on you. From the context of the name as well as the state flag of the Great State of New Mexico, I would have figured you would have gotten the state's rights platform. I routinely call this nation, "These United States" in my posts so as to reinforce the notion that the power should rest with the states. Our founders so greatly knew that that is what would keep a large and powerful state such as Texas (or California, just not geographically adjacent in this example) from forcing its will on a less powerful state such as New Mexico.

Do you get it now?
Well you were correct, I'm definitely more Libertarian then anything.
I'm sure you noted my post was in jest to break up the monotonous back n forth

I didn't know that was a State flag as your avatar.
I can honestly say I don't have all 50 states flags memorized. LOL

I'm only familiar really with California's, Texas, and Illinois in truth.
My vast knowledge of New Mexico is limited to 2 things,
1. AMC's Breaking Bad was staged to be in Albuquerque,
2. Police force there is very notoriously bad.
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Old 08-02-2017, 08:11 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by codifier
Playing Devil's Advocate here. If John Doe is willing to pay $1100 isn't it worth that? That may not be the prevailing rate, but as long as someone is willing to pay it then that's its value. I have always heard this when dealing with collectibles. A rare baseball card might be "worth" a million dollars on paper, but until you find someone willing and able to pay that it's really worth nothing.

It's still unethical for people to try and manipulate others unfairly for increased profit though and they deserve to be shamed and shunned.
Yes, it's worth that to him if he's willing to pay it, but that has nothing to do with price gouging. You're describing a Free Market situation. If there was a water shortage, for on extreme example, and the only store in town wanted to exploit the situation by charging $1000 per gallon of water, it would both be price gouging and worth it to me to pay the $1000 for the water. Just because I decided to buy the water doesn't mean I wasn't priced gouged also.

My opinion is both Praxidike and Codifier get exactly what I wanted to get across when I started this thread. It doesn't matter if some of are willing to pay $1500 for a VEPR now. the fact that the price was artificially raised $500 or more in less than a month is price gouging.
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Old 08-02-2017, 08:16 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Ski
After initial hoopla, prices will go back to levels close before ban. Look into the Saigas...At this point, if you have missed initial "bus on vepr" - screw it, i would wait. Honestly. Of course i could be wrong, but as much as i love veprs, i would never pay $1500 for it. Not a fkn chance.

You hit the nail on the head, as usual rob. I love my Veprs, but there isn't an AK on earth I would pay 1500$ for..
So I learned something interesting yesterday that in light of this post I feel I should share. I was told by a trusted source connected to FIME that less than 1000 of the VEPR FM-11 47s and 74s made it into country in the 10ish months they were imported Much less for the FM-21 folding models, and from talking with Legion a few months back, MANY MANY fewer 1vs. So now knowing this I can see at least the FMs being double their OG price in 5-10 years...

I also found out that FIME has a few trickling in here and there but they have raised their prices to their distributors $300-$500...Price gouging???
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Old 08-02-2017, 08:22 PM   #98
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Well you were correct, I'm definitely more Libertarian then anything.
I'm sure you noted my post was in jest to break up the monotonous back n forth

I didn't know that was a State flag as your avatar.
I can honestly say I don't have all 50 states flags memorized. LOL

I'm only familiar really with California's, Texas, and Illinois in truth.
My vast knowledge of New Mexico is limited to 2 things,
1. AMC's Breaking Bad was staged to be in Albuquerque,
2. Police force there is very notoriously bad.
You know it's actually quite funny to me that I, the OP and NewMexican are so diametrically opposed on this issue, and I grew up in the same state as he now claims for all 18 years of my childhood. It's just funny to me.

Also, a couple other fun facts about NM is we have some of the most diverse, awesome hunting of any state in the union. (predator, two different type of deer, elk, desert and bighorn sheep, antelope, Oryx, and Ibex). Not many other states are as diverse. We have multiple winter sport venues, and a TON of outdoor options for anyone to love. We created the first radioactive site in the world, and have two of the three government funded nuclear labs. I love my childhood there and wish I could raise my kids there.

Also, EVERYTHING you said about ABQ and their cops...TRUE.
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Old 08-02-2017, 09:39 PM   #99
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You know it's actually quite funny to me that I, the OP and NewMexican are so diametrically opposed on this issue, and I grew up in the same state as he now claims for all 18 years of my childhood. It's just funny to me.

Also, a couple other fun facts about NM is we have some of the most diverse, awesome hunting of any state in the union. (predator, two different type of deer, elk, desert and bighorn sheep, antelope, Oryx, and Ibex). Not many other states are as diverse. We have multiple winter sport venues, and a TON of outdoor options for anyone to love. We created the first radioactive site in the world, and have two of the three government funded nuclear labs. I love my childhood there and wish I could raise my kids there.

Also, EVERYTHING you said about ABQ and their cops...TRUE.
NM also has Hatch Chile.
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Old 08-03-2017, 03:10 AM   #100
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You hit the nail on the head, as usual rob. I love my Veprs, but there isn't an AK on earth I would pay 1500$ for.
I paid $1699 for Vepr 12 SBS
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Old 08-03-2017, 01:21 PM   #101
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OMG... Price gouging has NOTHING to do with whether there's a transaction or not. It has everything to do with the seller's actions. Like I stated before, you're debating a concept that you clearly do not understand.

Here's another description of the term that you'll ignore, so I do not even know why I'm wasting my time.

If CTD was selling Veprs for $700, found out about the ban, and then spiked the price to $1100 (which the consensus would be that price is unreasonable at this current date and time) to exploit the fact that a ban was just put into place, that is price gouging. If John Doe agrees to pay that price, even if he does so willingly, he can very well be said to have been "price gouged" because he purchased a price gouged Vepr. Has nothing to do with Free Market, and everything to do with perception and ethics.
You can stop wasting your time all you want, but I would suggest you should invest some of it in actually learning about economics.

Gouged is a past participle. It is the tense of a verb after an action has occurred. In this particular case, it is the effect portion of cause and effect.

By extension, you cannot claim damages if you didn't participate in the transaction. I am assuming you may need this in simpler terms, so here goes:

Only your feelings are hurt because of what the lawful owner of private property chooses to do with his property. You have not sustained actual damages. You have not been swindled because you did not participate in the transaction.

If you don't get that only your feelings have been hurt (an abstract concept that cannot be quantified by others) then you should stop wasting any more time here. Perhaps choose to spend time at your local college taking some courses. If you are already enrolled, you better spend less time on the internet forums before you have to "withdraw - failing". This WILL affect your GPA.

I blame your public education.

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You know it's actually quite funny to me that I, the OP and NewMexican are so diametrically opposed on this issue, and I grew up in the same state as he now claims for all 18 years of my childhood. It's just funny to me.

Also, a couple other fun facts about NM is we have some of the most diverse, awesome hunting of any state in the union. (predator, two different type of deer, elk, desert and bighorn sheep, antelope, Oryx, and Ibex). Not many other states are as diverse. We have multiple winter sport venues, and a TON of outdoor options for anyone to love. We created the first radioactive site in the world, and have two of the three government funded nuclear labs. I love my childhood there and wish I could raise my kids there.

Also, EVERYTHING you said about ABQ and their cops...TRUE.
Aside from living in Tucson (I graduated from UofA) and a short stint in Omaha (ex-girlfriend in law school at Creighton) I have lived here my entire life. It really is the best place physically. Our major issue is the economy sucks because we have always solved things the easy way. Throw tax dollars that flow from extractive industries at the problem and being a taker state for federal dollars. Both shameful in my eyes.

ETA: Albuquerque Police Department is filled with good beat cops that have suffered from the corruption in upper command. Those are the criminals.
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Old 08-03-2017, 01:34 PM   #102
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It is amazing how economics and the free market system is completely ignored in government schools these days. It is so sad for America's future.

Those who know they have little or no understanding ought to watch the series Free to Choose by Milton Friedman. Those who don't know better get busy and wake up!

http://www.freetochoose.tv/

There are other great links to come up to speed on how a free market economy is suppose to work. Find out the facts by looking here:

https://fee.org/

https://mises.org/library/biography-f-hayek-1899-1992

https://mises.org/mises-academy
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Old 08-04-2017, 12:22 AM   #103
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NM also has Hatch Chile.
Aahhh, yes, so true, how could I forget
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Old 08-04-2017, 12:26 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by bondmen View Post
It is amazing how economics and the free market system is completely ignored in government schools these days. It is so sad for America's future.

Those who know they have little or no understanding ought to watch the series Free to Choose by Milton Friedman. Those who don't know better get busy and wake up!

http://www.freetochoose.tv/

There are other great links to come up to speed on how a free market economy is suppose to work. Find out the facts by looking here:

https://fee.org/

https://mises.org/library/biography-f-hayek-1899-1992

https://mises.org/mises-academy
Thanks for the links. Very cool
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Old 08-04-2017, 04:29 AM   #105
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I am the old Mexican.
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