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Old 10-23-2017, 08:48 PM   #106
Stopsign32v
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Originally Posted by Sabre5G View Post
I have an HD 870. Remington canít even make an extractor right any more. I prefer the 590 over the 870. I do not like shotguns that much. I think they recoil more than any other weapon, I could even shoot my ptr91 all day. I would rather use my mke mp5 or a pistol than a loud ass, harsh recoiling, 5-7 round shotgun. I think most people would get their asses handed to them if the home invader even had a 25 ACP pistol vs the shotgun. The only pro I think is that shotguns are intimidating as shit, and versatile.

In Iraq I saw a guy get shot by a shotgun just run away like nothing. They are not a 1 shot and drop. They are more good against an unarmed person or someone armed with a stick, unless you have a team with rifles. Iíd always carry a pistol with a 12 as well.
They are literally known as being 1 shot and drop.... I would take 1 shell of #1 buck over anything else for home defense. Get some managed recoil shells and recoil isnít bad at all and follow up shots are easier than an AK.
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Old 10-23-2017, 09:06 PM   #107
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...I would take 1 shell of #1 buck over anything else for home defense. Get some managed recoil shells and recoil isn’t bad at all and follow up shots are easier than an AK.
Federal LE132-1B with Flite Control. Patterns 5+ yards better ALL TORSO than LE132-00/LE127-00 in all my IC'd 870Ps. 15 (6 more) pellets of wound-channeling BLEEDOUT (and the shortly DRT BG, even if I end up double-tappin' 'em on the way DOWN to FBI-montra'd "shoot the threat to the ground" end-of fight isn't going to practically contend/agree with the inet-bitch ammo purists that it's actually only ~"1.25"-buck).
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Old 10-23-2017, 10:46 PM   #108
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Very good; it's amazing how many people don't practice. My 870Ps are HD-stoked with LE132-00 or LE132-1B; couple Brennekes tagging along in the butt-cuff. I am bad about leaving say a 100-rnd box of practice low brass about on the the master bath counter because it was on it's way in or out of the ammo safe in the adjoining closet. Hell there's two cases of Golden Tiger on the floor on my side of the closet, one but 3 boxes into a 50-cal can because I f'd up the stacking fit pattern last weekend. But, I was trained that in, say, a civil disturbance or earthquake disaster situation (I live a greater Memphis...) that you might have to scrounge "pick-up" ammo/low-brass. And SOME un-tuned semi-auto don't cycle those reliably; seen it.
I still maintain that a trained and practiced pump runner can shoot 3 rounds in 2 seconds and make hits on multiple BGs, 1-3 yards laterally apart at 2-10 yards downrange. You ALWAYS stroke in a fresh round (hard!) right after the shot goes off and during the target transition. After that reloading is king/critical; Tom Givens, in particular but among others, would kick my ass if I didn't practice/preach this. And I'm not considering the 3G race guns (930 JM Pro, etc) that <1% Americans might have for HD.

If your semi-autos run low brass birdshot reliably (cops preach these may require multiple shots to DRT) or you can hit faster, excellent for you. Just train, practice and know your firearm and don't dismiss Murphy...
Peace out.
Look when I came to this thread, I wasn't trying to argue with nobody. I think both whether its pump or semi auto are great and depends on personal preference. Yes there some semi auto and some untunned semi autos that might have problems of cycling low brass. But I am talking about my shotguns that I own. I can only attest on those. Versa Max shooting anything you put there and I shot hundred of shells of different variations. From cheap bird shots to double buck and slugs. My Vepr 12 that I got two years ago at first had issue with low brass, but after I had it tuned. No problems and I shot hundreds of bird shot through it.

Its all about training and preference
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Old 10-23-2017, 10:58 PM   #109
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I’d take the semi over the pump. Then again I suck at the shotgun. I have seen videos of guys that run a 12 gauge pump action shotgun like butter and shoot fast as hell. I think it all depends on the user. I am a 7.62 man.
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Old 10-24-2017, 06:47 AM   #110
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Pump, semi-auto, if you're torn between the two just get a Binelli M3. Or if you don't want to spend that much get a Tristar Tec-12. Best of both worlds, inertia driven semi-auto and pump shotgun all in one!!
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Old 10-24-2017, 03:27 PM   #111
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What impressed me to no end, was a shootout that happened quite a long time ago, that ended up on television, of a home invasion by these guys who had UZI type weapons which had been recorded by the homeowners security cameras.

This started out bad, very bad for the homeowner, because these guys pulled up to his house and you could see they had machine pistols, and there were several of them.

The homeowner had ONE semi automatic pistol, and several high capacity mags.

Starting out, the homeowner was outmanned and outgunned and it seemed to me that this gentleman was in serious trouble.

He got aggressive and let loose as soon as the folks had gotten out of their cars but before they had gotten into the house.

Another guy pulled up in a third car, and you could see a round exploding his windshield, and the only reason the guy could duck down and pull out in reverse is there must have been a deflection of the round by the windshield.

The homeowner drove these guys off and they were arrested and taken into custody later. Seemed like, at least to me, that the end result was because of several things in play.

The body language of these guys was totally different now that somebody was shooting back despite the fact that they outgunned the homeowner.

They looked badass and aggressive until the shooting started, and you could see the shock/surprise on their faces as the homeowner got off first. Also the homeowner could shoot.

It just seemed to me that the biggest differences in the gun fight, despite who had what gun, was what was in the homeowners head, and in his heart, and his determination under fire.

I don't remember if his family was in the home when it happened. That might have played a part in this homeowners desperation and determination.

Considering what happened in this incident might apply to this discussion about pumps versus semis...........maybe there's a bigger consideration as to who prevails, than the issue of whether you have a semi, or the other guy has a pump...............or a pistol.

Last edited by AllTen; 10-24-2017 at 03:41 PM.
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Old 10-24-2017, 06:55 PM   #112
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What impressed me to no end, was a shootout that happened quite a long time ago, that ended up on television, of a home invasion by these guys who had UZI type weapons which had been recorded by the homeowners security cameras.

This started out bad, very bad for the homeowner, because these guys pulled up to his house and you could see they had machine pistols, and there were several of them.

The homeowner had ONE semi automatic pistol, and several high capacity mags.

Starting out, the homeowner was outmanned and outgunned and it seemed to me that this gentleman was in serious trouble.

He got aggressive and let loose as soon as the folks had gotten out of their cars but before they had gotten into the house.

Another guy pulled up in a third car, and you could see a round exploding his windshield, and the only reason the guy could duck down and pull out in reverse is there must have been a deflection of the round by the windshield.

The homeowner drove these guys off and they were arrested and taken into custody later. Seemed like, at least to me, that the end result was because of several things in play.

The body language of these guys was totally different now that somebody was shooting back despite the fact that they outgunned the homeowner.

They looked badass and aggressive until the shooting started, and you could see the shock/surprise on their faces as the homeowner got off first. Also the homeowner could shoot.

It just seemed to me that the biggest differences in the gun fight, despite who had what gun, was what was in the homeowners head, and in his heart, and his determination under fire.

I don't remember if his family was in the home when it happened. That might have played a part in this homeowners desperation and determination.

Considering what happened in this incident might apply to this discussion about pumps versus semis...........maybe there's a bigger consideration as to who prevails, than the issue of whether you have a semi, or the other guy has a pump...............or a pistol.
Great Post, I think training and going over scenarios is main part. Don't matter if its pump or semi-auto. I think its silly argument. Semi might have higher record of issues them pumps, but if you have semi that you put hundred of rounds with it, then you know your shot gun is good to go. And if you have pump action and even if its not as fast as semi, but you train with it and you efficient with it, then so what. Its not the tool, but how you use it. And sometimes when you desperate, you do what you have to do
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Old 10-24-2017, 07:38 PM   #113
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My 930 jm 10 shot runs perfect even low brass
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Old 10-29-2017, 08:51 PM   #114
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You can not have too many 12 gauge riot guns, my two newest

Beretta 1301 Tactical LE



Ithaca M37 Ex Mississippi Highway Patrol


Well Glashaus...............................

Your picture did it. Your picture started the "itch". It's now an "itch" that's been "scratched". Gave them a deposit some time ago.

As I've mentioned in another thread, I'm getting another scattergun........it's the Beretta 1301 Tactical. I picked the rifle butt version instead of the pistol grip, and then I'll get the Nordic +2 extension.

BTW.............when I pay the gun off, is there any reason I can't run the Nordic ext. w/o the clamp.

I guess you were right, you can't have enough scatterguns.
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Old 10-30-2017, 02:45 AM   #115
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Should run fine with out the clamp. It's mostly there to give some support to the threads should you drop it on the extension.
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Old 10-30-2017, 11:14 AM   #116
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Well Glashaus...............................

Your picture did it. Your picture started the "itch". It's now an "itch" that's been "scratched". Gave them a deposit some time ago.

As I've mentioned in another thread, I'm getting another scattergun........it's the Beretta 1301 Tactical. I picked the rifle butt version instead of the pistol grip, and then I'll get the Nordic +2 extension.

BTW.............when I pay the gun off, is there any reason I can't run the Nordic ext. w/o the clamp.

I guess you were right, you can't have enough scatterguns.
Damn you, I'm jealous! Fix the shell release with an aftermarket one and you should be GTG. I haven't heard anything negative about the Beretta 1301 tactical. Damn good choice!
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Old 10-30-2017, 11:41 AM   #117
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Well Glashaus...............................

Your picture did it. Your picture started the "itch". It's now an "itch" that's been "scratched". Gave them a deposit some time ago.

As I've mentioned in another thread, I'm getting another scattergun........it's the Beretta 1301 Tactical. I picked the rifle butt version instead of the pistol grip, and then I'll get the Nordic +2 extension.

BTW.............when I pay the gun off, is there any reason I can't run the Nordic ext. w/o the clamp.

I guess you were right, you can't have enough scatterguns.

Well I am glad I am helping some one out spending thier money!

You will like the 1301, it is a fine shotgun! I suppose that you could use the extension without the clamp, I will have to take a look at it. I have the replacement release, just haven't gotten around to install it yet.

This shotgun is very fast!
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Old 10-30-2017, 12:37 PM   #118
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<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/y2hbmGIyZ2c" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

^What the hell?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2hbmGIyZ2c
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Old 10-30-2017, 01:57 PM   #119
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Since seeing your pic, I perused quite a few videos/reviews on the gun, read about the shell release issue, and the shroud upgrade to eliminate that possibility.

Plus a lot of folks who own the gun say they've never had a problem jamming the gun that way, so I figure either way I'm GTG.

I asked about the clamp because w/o a clamp on my 870 WM the cap would tend to loosen until I had a ball detent installed, but I realize the 1301 is a different gun.

Another thing that spoke to me was that just about everybody speaks well of the gun, and even though I've got the Rem Versa Max, it's got a 22" barrel and I'm a little "self conscious" navigating the inside of my house with it.

It's a bit distracting concentrating on not bumping into things inside walking around w/it, but I figure it will come in handy on the outside shooting downrange w/slugs; at least that's the way I got it figured.

Bottom line is I down want to be distracted when I'm making sure nobody's broke into my house.

Both my pumps have barrels 18" and change, and I can walk around the house w/em easily, so I figure I'll have that same thing with the 1301 in a semi.

WOW.............I NEED to put the brakes on any more scatterguns.


PS: Saw this...............which is the supposed quick and easy way to clear that kind of jam, if it happens.............anyway..........it got my attention. I'll probably practice with this just in case.
Just so long as I don't lose a thumb.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYP20wxbHUk

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Old 10-30-2017, 02:28 PM   #120
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I canít stop buying shotguns. My single favorite firearm type. Everything from a double barrel break action to a semi auto.
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Old 10-30-2017, 02:35 PM   #121
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I canít stop buying shotguns. My single favorite firearm type. Everything from a double barrel break action to a semi auto.
I got to try to figure a way to stop.
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Old 10-30-2017, 02:44 PM   #122
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I got to try to figure a way to stop.
Let me know when you figure that out
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Old 10-30-2017, 04:13 PM   #123
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Let me know when you figure that out
You can't stop until you have at least one of every type of action. Single shot break action, double barrel (side by side and over/under), pump, semi-auto (gas and inertia), hybrid pump/semi-auto, bolt action, lever action, and last but not least slide/slam fire single shot, lol.
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Old 11-03-2017, 02:06 AM   #124
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You can't stop until you have at least one of every type of action. Single shot break action, double barrel (side by side and over/under), pump, semi-auto (gas and inertia), hybrid pump/semi-auto, bolt action, lever action, and last but not least slide/slam fire single shot, lol.
You forgot the blunderbus. Go run some laps.
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Old 11-03-2017, 10:22 AM   #125
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You forgot the blunderbus. Go run some laps.
LOL, guess I'll need one of them too!
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Old 11-08-2017, 06:41 PM   #126
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re: Some of the discussion here, I remembered this............

Motorist w/an AK, and he has the drop on the two officers who fight it out w/handguns................


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTRv2cH6MlE
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