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Old 01-14-2017, 11:29 PM   #1
nalioth
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Default Smith & Wesson - how the mighty have fallen


Back in the day, if you saw a Smith & Wesson with "Performance Center" emblazoned on it, you knew you were looking at a gun that'd rate near the pinnacle of firearms performance.

Back in the day, "S&W Performance Center" guns were either custom jobs for individuals or extremely limited production runs - either would have been meticulously hand worked to the desired status.


Nowadays, S&W is stamping "Performance Center" on extruded plastic turds.

I'm not sure how much hand work you can do to a modern S&W polymer handgun that will actually enhance its operation, so I'm calling this a "marketing decision".

It's positively shameful to see the name of a once venerated custom shop associated with such junk.
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Old 01-14-2017, 11:34 PM   #2
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Agreed.
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Old 01-14-2017, 11:40 PM   #3
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but it has ports and fiber optic sights!!!
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Old 01-14-2017, 11:44 PM   #4
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And the textured "tactical" grip area...............
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Old 01-14-2017, 11:47 PM   #5
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Geez... they put fiber optic sights on it!!! What more do you want?
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Old 01-15-2017, 12:33 AM   #6
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I swore off S&W when I sent a M&P 9mm back for accuracy issues and it was returned as no problem found. Keep in mind that I took 3 pistols to the range. 2 of the pistols would stack shots at 12 yards. The Smith wouldn't shoot a 6inch group. It was documented on the S&W forum. I wondered how they evaluated it? They didn't say...
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Old 01-15-2017, 12:46 AM   #7
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Last S&W I bought was a 915. I got lucky right as the AWB hit in 1994, and local shop got 4 of them the day after it went into effect. $199 OTD with 3 mags and case. I bought one, cop bought the other 3. I carried it for almost 4 years as a security officer, and regret ever selling it.

The new M&P guns just feel like 2x4's in my hand.
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Old 01-15-2017, 12:50 AM   #8
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I swore off S&W when I sent a M&P 9mm back for accuracy issues and it was returned as no problem found. Keep in mind that I took 3 pistols to the range. 2 of the pistols would stack shots at 12 yards. The Smith wouldn't shoot a 6inch group. It was documented on the S&W forum. I wondered how they evaluated it? They didn't say...
I had the same shit happen with an M&P9. They sent it back with this bullshit printed target. I called them after shooting it again and was like wtf?! They said I had sent a 40 Shield in. They treated me like I must not know any difference between calibers and shield and full size. All their customers must be equal retards is how they acted. I sent it in again and they replaced their barrel. The barrel replaced was probably able to get 6 inch groups from a rest. I shot my friends m&p40 and can do magic with it. I now have that m&p40
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Old 01-15-2017, 12:59 AM   #9
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I got an HK VP9 yesterday since all the Operator beard bearers don't like it. Must be the worst poly pistol of all since HK just decided to up and shit out another crappy pistol. My other pistol is a G19. I like the size, weight, barrel length, capacity, low bore axis, Luger grip angle, and barrel better than any other compact pistol on the market. The next pistols I want is the USP 45, Walther PPQ or P99, and a Makarov.

I don't pretend to know much about pistols, but I did watch a Yeager vid on the Performance Center Shield. I think the Shield looks retarded
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Old 01-15-2017, 01:06 AM   #10
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all my smiths have 5, 6, or 10 shot cylinders, and no hillary hole. they are a 617, 422, 586, 686, and a 629

i WILL not buy an auto smith no matter how good of a deal it is. smith should stick with their wheel guns.
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Old 01-15-2017, 01:21 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Sabre5G View Post
I had the same shit happen with an M&P9. They sent it back with this bullshit printed target. I called them after shooting it again and was like wtf?! They said I had sent a 40 Shield in. They treated me like I must not know any difference between calibers and shield and full size. All their customers must be equal retards is how they acted. I sent it in again and they replaced their barrel. The barrel replaced was probably able to get 6 inch groups from a rest. I shot my friends m&p40 and can do magic with it. I now have that m&p40
Same with an SD9. Couldn't find a group at 7 feet. NIB, I handed it to two range officers to see if it was me. They couldn't keep it on the paper at 21 feet. Crown looked normal. Then, the same day, the tab on the striker sheared off. Sent it back explaining the issues. Returned with a new striker and the continued inability to put the rounds on paper. Two weeks later the striker tab broke again. Went back to Springfield and upon return to me went as a big loss consignment sale to my LGS.
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Old 01-15-2017, 01:36 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Sabre5G View Post
I got an HK VP9 yesterday since all the Operator beard bearers don't like it. Must be the worst poly pistol of all since HK just decided to up and shit out another crappy pistol. My other pistol is a G19. I like the size, weight, barrel length, capacity, low bore axis, Luger grip angle, and barrel better than any other compact pistol on the market. The next pistols I want is the USP 45, Walther PPQ or P99, and a Makarov.

I don't pretend to know much about pistols, but I did watch a Yeager vid on the Performance Center Shield. I think the Shield looks retarded
Love my PPQ M2 9mm. They send you a target from the factory so you'll know its not the gun....lol
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Old 01-15-2017, 01:37 AM   #13
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Geez... they put fiber optic sights on it!!! What more do you want?
Right? For fuck's sake it's practically the definition of operators firearm.
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Old 01-15-2017, 01:38 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by rbox1064 View Post
I swore off S&W when I sent a M&P 9mm back for accuracy issues and it was returned as no problem found. Keep in mind that I took 3 pistols to the range. 2 of the pistols would stack shots at 12 yards. The Smith wouldn't shoot a 6inch group. It was documented on the S&W forum. I wondered how they evaluated it? They didn't say...
S&W needs to dump anything that doesn't revolve and focus on what they know. Leave the plastic stuff to Glock.
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Old 01-15-2017, 01:56 AM   #15
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While their fullsize 9mm's are trash, the shields are nice pistols.

The performance center gimmick on the other hand, and that's what it is, is just pathetic.

I sent my full size 9 in numerous times, had the barrel changed even, and that fker would group shotgun patterns at 15 yards. Where as I shoot cloverleafs with a compact shield 9mm.

I'll keep my shield, it's been dead reliable and accurate, but I'll never buy another S&W product again.
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Old 01-15-2017, 02:01 AM   #16
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The only s&w auto I cared for was a 945 performance center. When the name meant something.

M&P's whole line just plain suck, one of the last polymer pistols at the bottom of the list I would buy

Gaddam stupid hinge trigger
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Old 01-15-2017, 02:01 AM   #17
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From what I understand, their m&p barrels lose specs within the locking area. They all had the same barrel twist I heard as well. Even Tactickle God himself, Chris Costa made a post in Jan of 2015 I think about the M&P's shotgunning and all. I tried to believe the bullshit and buy American but I have been burned each time I get American. I only trust German, Russian Molot, and European guns from now on.
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Old 01-15-2017, 02:02 AM   #18
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Who the hell buys a S&W auto?
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Old 01-15-2017, 02:03 AM   #19
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One thing positive I'll say about the m&p is the 40's were decent. The m&p handles recoil better than any poly pistol I know of. That's about it.
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Old 01-15-2017, 02:20 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabre5G View Post
From what I understand, their m&p barrels lose specs within the locking area. They all had the same barrel twist I heard as well. Even Tactickle God himself, Chris Costa made a post in Jan of 2015 I think about the M&P's shotgunning and all. I tried to believe the bullshit and buy American but I have been burned each time I get American. I only trust German, Russian Molot, and European guns from now on.
S&W changed the barrel twist on their 9mm's 3 times trying to fix the issue, but wouldn't listen to those that knew it was an early unlocking issue. Apex fixed it with their barrels, but if you have to buy parts to fix a gun from the factory, change platforms tbh.


Quote:
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One thing positive I'll say about the m&p is the 40's were decent. The m&p handles recoil better than any poly pistol I know of. That's about it.
The M&P line was built on the .40 cartridge. It was adapted to 9mm, which is why the 9's had early unlocking issues. They could never get the barrel hood dimensions correct with consistency.
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Old 01-15-2017, 02:38 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabre5G View Post
One thing positive I'll say about the m&p is the 40's were decent. The m&p handles recoil better than any poly pistol I know of. That's about it.
That's why all the 40 guys were telling us we couldn't shoot and were full of shit!
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Old 01-15-2017, 08:03 AM   #22
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Have a MP45 and the trigger was SHIT!!! Felt like the trigger was actually broken. Replaced with an APEX trigger and it is now acceptable. But the pistol shoots fine.

Also found a K19-3 4". Rough condition but good bore. Sent it in to the Performance Center.
$45 to tune it up
Glass Bead Blue $170
~$250 shipped little less than $600 overall.

This pistol is amazing! They worked this pistol to like new condition. I will never be as accurate as this firearm. First revolver were it wasn't a PITA to shoot double action. Single action breaks like glass, perfect.

Was shooting 3-4" groups @ 50yds and torso shots @100yds with .357-158gr free hand.

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Old 01-15-2017, 08:20 AM   #23
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And yet an other thread with the same 4-5 people whining about smith and Wesson poly autos.


Is it that time of the month already?
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Old 01-15-2017, 08:43 AM   #24
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I don't have much love for anything "custom".

Let alone custom S&W M&P's, or even Glocks, 1911's, etc.
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Old 01-15-2017, 09:27 AM   #25
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Quote:
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Who the hell buys a S&W auto?
idiots
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Old 01-15-2017, 09:36 AM   #26
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I have a strange curse when it comes to the S&W M&P line.

I always have issues. Accuracy. Crazy sear flutter resulting in a dead trigger. Slide not locking back, etc.

I tell people the M&P line CAN be good. I have friends that have excellent results with the M&P 9s and Shields.

However, because of my results I will suggest a Glock 19/17, Beretta 92FS, CZ, FN, etc over them.
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Old 01-15-2017, 09:49 AM   #27
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Old classic gun is best gun.
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Old 01-15-2017, 09:54 AM   #28
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This is what happens when the company that makes [insert retail product here] is owned by a private equity firm or publicly traded. The CEO probably has an MBA from Warton and the widget are modified to provide shareholders with 4% growth.

You see, in the eyes of the board of directors, guns are the exact same thing as cheeseburgers. Generate growth or equity distribution via dividends or get replaced.
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Old 01-15-2017, 09:55 AM   #29
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There Performance center 1911's are nice, excellent shooting pistols.
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Old 01-15-2017, 09:57 AM   #30
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I do love my Smith & Wesson's but I will never own a new one.





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Old 01-15-2017, 10:14 AM   #31
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Have not bought any smith autos since the mighty 3rd gens. I will pass on their plastic pistols. Just don't like the looks of the MP line.

As with all good companies eventually they go to hell in a hand basket.
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Old 01-15-2017, 10:38 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nalioth View Post

Back in the day, if you saw a Smith & Wesson with "Performance Center" emblazoned on it, you knew you were looking at a gun that'd rate near the pinnacle of firearms performance.

Back in the day, "S&W Performance Center" guns were either custom jobs for individuals or extremely limited production runs - either would have been meticulously hand worked to the desired status.


Nowadays, S&W is stamping "Performance Center" on extruded plastic turds.

I'm not sure how much hand work you can do to a modern S&W polymer handgun that will actually enhance its operation, so I'm calling this a "marketing decision".

It's positively shameful to see the name of a once venerated custom shop associated with such junk.
As others have noted, there are some basic upgrades to the firearm.

Performance Center is just legalese denoting that the firearm is modified for competition use because the trigger springs are going to be lighter than standard in order to improve the trigger pull.

So if you AD the thing somehow you were warned in advance by the "Performance Center" logo.
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Old 01-15-2017, 11:31 AM   #33
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Smith and Wesson went to crap when they put the IL on revolvers. They have so many new revolvers i would buy if it wasn't for that piece of junk
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Old 01-15-2017, 11:43 AM   #34
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Hmmm posted an hour after I shared that I bought one on this very subforum.

If you want to call me out Nails, just do so. Don't do it through passive aggressive shit talking about something I just bought.

At least I now know that I am one of the idiots who buys "junk" in your eyes.
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Old 01-15-2017, 12:17 PM   #35
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Hmmm posted an hour after I shared that I bought one on this very subforum.

If you want to call me out Nails, just do so. Don't do it through passive aggressive shit talking about something I just bought.

At least I now know that I am one of the idiots who buys "junk" in your eyes.
Wow, someone is taking it the wrong way.

I'd say this man, no matter what anyone says our opinions are no more important than your own. If you like the gun and it works for you then that's absolutely all that matters! Fuck what anyone says negatively about it (including me).
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