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Old 08-04-2017, 09:19 AM   #106
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I am the old Mexican.
I knew he was around here somewhere.

Get me some Horchata damnit......
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Old 08-04-2017, 10:39 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by bondmen View Post
It is amazing how economics and the free market system is completely ignored in government schools these days. It is so sad for America's future.
Ignored by nearly everyone, and yet, the same people that complain about gouging are never offer to sell their pre-ban Chinese and Hungarian UF's (or any other variant) for the $400 they paid for them.
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Old 08-04-2017, 06:41 PM   #108
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"Price gouging is a term that refers to the practice of raising the price of goods, services, or commodities, to an unreasonable or unfair level. Such an increase in price is often a result of a sudden increase of demand and shortage of goods..."

from: https://legaldictionary.net/price-gouging/


So if a VEPR is normally worth $900, and someone sells it for $2k after it is banned, that is price gouging.

Whether someone buys it or not isn't the point. Someone with enough money will probably buy it. So the seller price gouged the buyer (not forcefully but that's beside the point).

Remember in 2013 after Sandy hook? People were selling $8 AR15 mags for $50 and bricks of 22LR for $50+

I heard $900 AR15's were selling for $3k. That was a crazy time...
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Old 08-04-2017, 06:49 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by Aceshigh View Post
I knew he was around here somewhere.

Get me some Horchata damnit......
It's too damn hot today. I'm drinking Limon Pepino agua fresca and avoiding people until 8PM.
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Old 08-04-2017, 11:41 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justice06RR View Post
"Price gouging is a term that refers to the practice of raising the price of goods, services, or commodities, to an unreasonable or unfair level. Such an increase in price is often a result of a sudden increase of demand and shortage of goods..."

from: https://legaldictionary.net/price-gouging/


So if a VEPR is normally worth $900, and someone sells it for $2k after it is banned, that is price gouging.

Whether someone buys it or not isn't the point. Someone with enough money will probably buy it. So the seller price gouged the buyer (not forcefully but that's beside the point).

Remember in 2013 after Sandy hook? People were selling $8 AR15 mags for $50 and bricks of 22LR for $50+

I heard $900 AR15's were selling for $3k. That was a crazy time...
Yes, post Sandy Hook for 6-9 month was a damn crazy time.

So in my mind I think time is the deciding factor if the 2K paid for a "pre-ban" VEPR. If it is a month after the event...yes that is gouging. If it is 5ish years or more, I call that appreciation. Appreciation does not happen overnight.
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Old 08-05-2017, 12:55 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by bondmen View Post
It is amazing how economics and the free market system is completely ignored in government schools these days. It is so sad for America's future.

Those who know they have little or no understanding ought to watch the series Free to Choose by Milton Friedman. Those who don't know better get busy and wake up!

http://www.freetochoose.tv/

There are other great links to come up to speed on how a free market economy is suppose to work. Find out the facts by looking here:

https://fee.org/

https://mises.org/library/biography-f-hayek-1899-1992

https://mises.org/mises-academy
Excellent post ^
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Old 08-05-2017, 08:00 AM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justice06RR View Post
"Price gouging is a term that refers to the practice of raising the price of goods, services, or commodities, to an unreasonable or unfair level. Such an increase in price is often a result of a sudden increase of demand and shortage of goods..."

from: https://legaldictionary.net/price-gouging/


So if a VEPR is normally worth $900, and someone sells it for $2k after it is banned, that is price gouging.

Whether someone buys it or not isn't the point. Someone with enough money will probably buy it. So the seller price gouged the buyer (not forcefully but that's beside the point).

Remember in 2013 after Sandy hook? People were selling $8 AR15 mags for $50 and bricks of 22LR for $50+

I heard $900 AR15's were selling for $3k. That was a crazy time...
Finally someone gets it....
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Old 08-06-2017, 02:34 AM   #113
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Whatever I still want a 5.45 vepr
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Old 08-06-2017, 09:22 AM   #114
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So is the amount of time a factor 1 week
Or 25 years vepr after ban compared to polytech
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Old 08-06-2017, 07:09 PM   #115
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Bought my vepr and saiga for 1100 total two years ago.... if someone wanted to pay me 2k for each I would sell. Buy myself 2 more wasrs and never think twice about it. Foreign ak are ok with me
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Old 08-06-2017, 10:13 PM   #116
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Got lucky. Purchased a 20 1/2" barrel Vepr 54r the week before SH. $699 seemed OK but not great at the time. Been a fun rifle that I wouldn't sell. Glad I have it.
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Old 08-06-2017, 10:34 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by praxidike View Post
Finally someone gets it....

NO...lol

The supply is now cut off and what is here is here. Price gouging is for goods that can be replenished. Veprs are gone for good.

Capitalism is painful when the haves vs the have nots have to deal with supply vs demand which is the de facto marker of the US economy.

It's so easy to see that the people complaining about the price increase are the have not's.

Don't complain if you can't afford a Vepr

Go buy something else instead
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Old 08-06-2017, 10:40 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by Χρυσός Орло́в View Post
NO...lol

The supply is now cut off and what is here is here. Price gouging is for goods that can be replenished. Veprs are gone for good.

Capitalism is painful when the haves vs the have nots have to deal with supply vs demand which is the de facto marker of the US economy.

It's so easy to see that the people complaining about the price increase are the have not's.

Don't complain if you can't afford a Vepr

Go buy something else instead
Show me in the definition of price gouging were it says anything about "replenished" or "Capitalism?" I'll wait. Also, most of the people in this thread have purchased Veprs.
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Old 08-07-2017, 11:04 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by praxidike View Post
Show me in the definition of price gouging were it says anything about "replenished" or "Capitalism?" I'll wait. Also, most of the people in this thread have purchased Veprs.
Well said Prax, well said
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Old 08-08-2017, 11:48 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by Χρυσός Орло́в View Post
NO...lol

The supply is now cut off and what is here is here. Price gouging is for goods that can be replenished. Veprs are gone for good.

Capitalism is painful when the haves vs the have nots have to deal with supply vs demand which is the de facto marker of the US economy.

It's so easy to see that the people complaining about the price increase are the have not's.

Don't complain if you can't afford a Vepr

Go buy something else instead
You have a point. A classic example of price gouging would be portable generator prices following a hurricane. There is a temporary shortage of supply based on unexpected and extreme demand. The same happens with fuel prices in hurricane damaged areas and states have had to enact anti price gouging laws to deal with it. In both cases, the price inflation and lack of supply are temporary and localized. There is also the widely held view that desperate people in an emergency situation are being taken advantage of in their need.

The Vepr shortage is not going to be temporary. It's a government created shortage that Russia has called an act of economic warfare. Yes, there have been some dicks pricing FM's at $2000 on GB, but they didn't sell for that price as others were available for considerably less on the same website. The market will determine the ultimate price of these guns, and not a couple of dicks on GB. It really is supply and demand.
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Old 08-08-2017, 08:48 PM   #121
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You have a point. A classic example of price gouging would be portable generator prices following a hurricane. There is a temporary shortage of supply based on unexpected and extreme demand. The same happens with fuel prices in hurricane damaged areas and states have had to enact anti price gouging laws to deal with it. In both cases, the price inflation and lack of supply are temporary and localized. There is also the widely held view that desperate people in an emergency situation are being taken advantage of in their need.

The Vepr shortage is not going to be temporary. It's a government created shortage that Russia has called an act of economic warfare. Yes, there have been some dicks pricing FM's at $2000 on GB, but they didn't sell for that price as others were available for considerably less on the same website. The market will determine the ultimate price of these guns, and not a couple of dicks on GB. It really is supply and demand.
Agree with all you said here. In your first paragraph the supply leveled out the price and it returned to a "normal level". I also agree with that widely held view that predatory retailers/opportunists are taking advantage of those. I also know that this is capitalism, I just think it is sad how dishonorable some people are to make a buck..hence the start of this thread. I also don't have too much pity for those who put themselves in a position to be taken advantage of, especially more than once...that is what being prepared is for (at least in your examples).

To your second paragraph. VERY True, the VEPR ban will not go away and the "shortage" will only increase with time especially on the less imported versions. I entirely agree with "The market will determine the ultimate price of these guns, and not a couple of dicks on GB." Which is why I think the real price will come once they are considered collector items, around the 5 year mark.
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Old 08-10-2017, 04:16 PM   #122
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I have always wanted a Russian AK. Unfortunately, I had to pay the inflated price in order to ensure I had a Vepr FM-AK47-11 for my son and me. I waited too long, so had to pay to play. Given the history on firearms bans, I can see these never being allowed to return again and there were not a ton of them that made it in. Given everything already mentioned, along with the rifle's positive reviews and perceived quality, I can see these rifles never being $1000 again.

I had also been looking for an Arsenal SLR-107R to train with. One came available, so I jumped on it at the same time as the Vepr mentioned above. Definitely depleted my funds for the moment haha.

I received the SLR-107R today and it is a very nice rifle. I look forward to receiving the Vepr early next week to compare them.
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Old 08-11-2017, 12:17 AM   #123
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^^^wow^^^. Great score so long after the ban.
One moment the VEPRs and SLRs were there and then Poooof! SLRs, VEPRs, WBPs...Everything was gone.
Now ya got Wasrs, and N Paps, Sam7s and kit guns.
Won't be long till the Sam7s dry up the Wasrs will be top gun... Lol

I look at it this way.
My VEPRs seemed expensive when I bought them.
However I thought there were the best rifle available short of the Sam7. So I bought them.
And I will keep them until someone talks me out of them, I guess.
I wish I had a Chicom, and an SGL. But I don't. Some day one of my VEPRs
may put me in a position to get one, who knows.
Supply and demand wins every time. I get it. Some folks don't...
And that's ok.

By the way, anyone who thinks there will be more SLR107R's released at $850 may be dreaming,
and will be the ones complaining about rifles >$1100 if and when they return.

In my mind they were over priced at $850... but I still bought one.
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Old 08-11-2017, 10:35 PM   #124
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i just picked one up off of lay away, (6.5 Grendel), and noticed they are still around, at least in that caliber. Waiting to see what magazine solutions we will have. I will admit I bought it impulsively, thinking they would really go up in price, but they really haven't...yet..:-)
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Old 08-11-2017, 11:02 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by Sirosisofliver View Post
i just picked one up off of lay away, (6.5 Grendel), and noticed they are still around, at least in that caliber. Waiting to see what magazine solutions we will have. I will admit I bought it impulsively, thinking they would really go up in price, but they really haven't...yet..:-)
Because the caliber you purchased it in isn't in demand.
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Old 08-12-2017, 09:05 AM   #126
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For their reliability when comparing with others, Veprs are worth $2000 or more.
Those that didn't buy them when they were $650, well, wasted time worrying about furniture options and limited attachments. Too bad
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Old 08-12-2017, 11:30 AM   #127
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There was a time when Classic was blowing them out the door a 500 a piece.
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Old 08-12-2017, 11:55 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by bondmen View Post
It is amazing how economics and the free market system is completely ignored in government schools these days. It is so sad for America's future.

Those who know they have little or no understanding ought to watch the series Free to Choose by Milton Friedman. Those who don't know better get busy and wake up!

http://www.freetochoose.tv/

There are other great links to come up to speed on how a free market economy is suppose to work. Find out the facts by looking here:

https://fee.org/

https://mises.org/library/biography-f-hayek-1899-1992

https://mises.org/mises-academy
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Thanks for the links. Very cool
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Originally Posted by esh21167 View Post
Ignored by nearly everyone, and yet, the same people that complain about gouging are never offer to sell their pre-ban Chinese and Hungarian UF's (or any other variant) for the $400 they paid for them.
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Excellent post ^
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Originally Posted by Tvoyumat View Post
For their reliability when comparing with others, Veprs are worth $2000 or more.
Those that didn't buy them when they were $650, well, wasted time worrying about furniture options and limited attachments. Too bad
Thank yous Gentlemen and Gentlewimmins!

What is next to be banned by feral government mandarins in District of Corruption I wonder? Free Speech and unorthodox, politically incorrect thinking and all folks who do not absorb and repeat the established dominate paradigm?

Saw a great bumper sticker in the parking lot at The Gold King Mountain Inn in Cripple Creek 3 days ago, on an unmistakable Viet Nam Veteran's truck from Arkansas: "I've Never Met Another Soldier Who Was Fighting for Socialism"

And terrific comment Tvoyumat! And I am curious, care to tell US how many you have procured by now?
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Old 08-12-2017, 12:05 PM   #129
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Because the caliber you purchased it in isn't in demand.
I see 7.62x39, 7.62x54r, and 5.45x39 are in stock at Kvar, I guess those calibers arent in demand either..
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Old 08-12-2017, 12:07 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by bondmen View Post
Thank yous Gentlemen and Gentlewimmins!

What is next to be banned by feral government mandarins in District of Corruption I wonder? Free Speech and unorthodox, politically incorrect thinking and all folks who do not absorb and repeat the established dominate paradigm?

Saw a great bumper sticker in the parking lot at The Gold King Mountain Inn in Cripple Creek 3 days ago, on an unmistakable Viet Nam Veteran's truck from Arkansas: "I've Never Met Another Soldier Who Was Fighting for Socialism"

And terrific comment Tvoyumat! And I am curious, care to tell US how many you have procured by now?
Plenty is all I can say! Multiples of each, only missing the 23.2" 5.45 which I'll find soon.
To compare Vepr quality and accuracy with a AR type, you'd have to look at a FN Scar or various older HKs and we all know how much those cost...and even then, none will come close in regards to reliability
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