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Old 07-09-2018, 11:50 AM   #36
monkeydo
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I think physical training would need to come first. For practicing marksmanship, I would get her just a standard 16” AR15 with a fixed F marked forged front sight. I’m pretty sure they still run iron sights too in basic, but if she is use to shooting with optics, no need to spend a grand or more on an ACOG. She’ll do fine with whatever she’s issued. I’m not sure if they even issue rifles with ACOGs in basic. Again, being physically fit is way more important than trying to get an AR that’s almost identical to the M16A4 she’ll probably be issued. She just needs something that she can use to familiarize herself with the platform (breaking it down, cleaning it, and putting it back together, and just getting use to the feel of the recoil). Throw a birdcage on it so that she can get use to a little muzzle rise too. Also, have her practice her zero. Zero the rifle, mess it up, and zero it again, over and over again lol. There’s really not necessarily a standard rifle or standard optic that recruits are issued though. It can vary depending on availability. Lastly, have her memorize ranks!

Last edited by monkeydo; 07-09-2018 at 11:59 AM.
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Old 07-09-2018, 11:58 AM   #37
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I just found this article. Link below. So yes, she very well may be testing on iron sights too. Id either get a carrying handle type rear sight, or flip up. Carrying handle would be best. If she has the land, she may want to run some with it too just to get use to the weight. Good luck to her! I hope my daughter decides to serve her country too one day. She has 17 years and 8 months until shes eligible though haha.

https://taskandpurpose.com/army-stre...asic-training/
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Old 07-11-2018, 08:07 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by chillypepper View Post
Her. and she will out shoot us already. She's been a shooter as long as she's been able.

As for DI's. They ain't there to make better recruits. They are there so they can make rank. Couldn't do it out there, so take shit azz duty to make rank another way.
Im betting that just about any other B-billet in the Corps would be an easier route than becoming a DI. The best advice you could give that young lady is not to listen to your salty ass since you think your crappy experiences in the Navy somehow qualify you to comment on how the Marine Corps trains recruits.
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Old 07-16-2018, 09:39 AM   #39
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Also, tell your daughter to keep her sense of humor, BUT DON'T LET IT SHOW!
She will see and experience some of the funniest moments in her life at Recruit Training; a favorite trick of DIs is to try to crack recruits up with wisecracks and antics.
She will also learn that humor is a priceless release for stress.
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Old 07-17-2018, 02:09 AM   #40
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The worst thing he could do is “train” his son prior to boot. Going in without habits and “training” is the easiest way to success. The DI’s will teach him.
While I know this is generally true, neither of my young-uns can remember not knowing how to shoot (and they’ve both been in the Army for 10+ years). They both usually shoot Expert (even though neither one is Combat Arms). To paraphrase the Marines, we believe that every soldier should be a rifleman first.

(BTW, I served in the Army 1973-76.)
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Old 07-17-2018, 02:46 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeydo View Post
I think physical training would need to come first. For practicing marksmanship, I would get her just a standard 16 AR15 with a fixed F marked forged front sight. Im pretty sure they still run iron sights too in basic, but if she is use to shooting with optics, no need to spend a grand or more on an ACOG. Shell do fine with whatever shes issued. Im not sure if they even issue rifles with ACOGs in basic. Again, being physically fit is way more important than trying to get an AR thats almost identical to the M16A4 shell probably be issued. She just needs something that she can use to familiarize herself with the platform (breaking it down, cleaning it, and putting it back together, and just getting use to the feel of the recoil). Throw a birdcage on it so that she can get use to a little muzzle rise too. Also, have her practice her zero. Zero the rifle, mess it up, and zero it again, over and over again lol. Theres really not necessarily a standard rifle or standard optic that recruits are issued though. It can vary depending on availability. Lastly, have her memorize ranks!

I can pretty much guarantee you they do in fact use the ACOG in boot camp during rifle qualification. The Marine Corps did away with iron sight back in 2013. My buddy's kid just graduated boot camp 3 weeks ago. First thing I asked him was if he qualified with a ACOG. His reply was yes. Like Fire4Effect said let the PMI train the young lady that way she will not develop any bad marksmanship habits.
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Old 07-17-2018, 10:01 AM   #42
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The DI doesn't teach marksmanship that's the job of the PMI the DI just marches them to the range and turns them over to the Primary Marksmanship Instructor for daily weapons I struction.
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Old 07-17-2018, 01:41 PM   #43
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Agree with the posts above, let the military do the weapons training. The PMI will instruct her on the habits they want to see in a Marine, which will be very different than prior service Army / Navy / Air Force / Local gun range instruction.

Second topic, there is no amount of physical training that can prepare someone for basic training. Most of the training isn't that physically demanding, where the DI's push the envelope is through the mental barriers people have (no sleep, mental exhaustion) and making that individual perform their best during the worst conditions imaginable. I remember a 'smoke' session that went on for about two hours one night, ending with overhead arm claps for what felt like an eternity (probably ten minutes straight) for no given reason at all. Looking back there was an obvious reason, and it was for the DI to figure out who is weak mentally and who wasn't.

Good luck to her! Hope for the best.
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Old 07-17-2018, 08:04 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeydo View Post
I just found this article. Link below. So yes, she very well may be testing on iron sights too. Id either get a carrying handle type rear sight, or flip up. Carrying handle would be best. If she has the land, she may want to run some with it too just to get use to the weight. Good luck to her! I hope my daughter decides to serve her country too one day. She has 17 years and 8 months until shes eligible though haha.

https://taskandpurpose.com/army-stre...asic-training/
Best advice out there, give here a rifle, and let her run all over heck with it. A few ruck marches for fun wont hurt either. I went in knowing how to shoot, and learned how to shoot better. Also practice on a bench is almost useless, practice shooting from different positions,
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Old 07-18-2018, 12:27 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Sapper1371 View Post
I can pretty much guarantee you they do in fact use the ACOG in boot camp during rifle qualification. The Marine Corps did away with iron sight back in 2013. My buddy's kid just graduated boot camp 3 weeks ago. First thing I asked him was if he qualified with a ACOG. His reply was yes. Like Fire4Effect said let the PMI train the young lady that way she will not develop any bad marksmanship habits.
Maybe she's not joining the Marines. The equipment she's going to have is solely based on the basic unit she's assigned to and the budget at that time of said unit. An M68 optic is much more common than an ACOG in basic training. The Army is going back to qualifying with iron sights. Not sure about the Marines, but it's only going to be beneficial for her to know how to use iron sights if she doesn't already know (which it appears she does). Recruits have been going in since we've had a military with prior marksmanship skills, and even habits whether good or bad. The worse kind of marksmanship habit you can have is not knowing anything about shooting a rifle and having to start from the beginning.
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Old 07-18-2018, 12:29 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Sweet5ltr View Post
Agree with the posts above, let the military do the weapons training. The PMI will instruct her on the habits they want to see in a Marine, which will be very different than prior service Army / Navy / Air Force / Local gun range instruction.

Second topic, there is no amount of physical training that can prepare someone for basic training. Most of the training isn't that physically demanding, where the DI's push the envelope is through the mental barriers people have (no sleep, mental exhaustion) and making that individual perform their best during the worst conditions imaginable. I remember a 'smoke' session that went on for about two hours one night, ending with overhead arm claps for what felt like an eternity (probably ten minutes straight) for no given reason at all. Looking back there was an obvious reason, and it was for the DI to figure out who is weak mentally and who wasn't.

Good luck to her! Hope for the best.
No, no amount of physical training will prepare her for it, but no physical training is irresponsible and almost suicide.
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Old 07-18-2018, 12:55 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeydo View Post
The worse kind of marksmanship habit you can have is not knowing anything about shooting a rifle and having to start from the beginning.
https://giphy.com/gifs/glmRyiSI3v5E4



This is very well documented to be the opposite of the truth. Where the military is concerned, there is a right way and a wrong way. Especially that early on in training, methods count as much, if not more than, results. Unless what you've already trained in happens to be the exact method they want from you, you're actually better off going in knowing nothing. Their training is literally designed for people who know nothing, so any habits you go in with will likely cost valuable instruction time unlearning, which means less time spent honing the proper method. This holds true for everything from shooting, to drill, to flying in the military.
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Old 07-18-2018, 11:13 PM   #48
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Showing up to boot camp physically unfit is a terrible way to start off. I remember what happened to recruits who fell out of PT when I was in boot camp. I simply decided that I would die rather than fall out and live.
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Old 07-19-2018, 04:38 AM   #49
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I'll offer a bit of advice from trying to train cops to shoot. It's not the same thing and cops have different stuff they have to learn but at this point, the others advice on letting the DI do the instructing I think is valid. However, one of the things I had to get my trainees over was the very fact of the gun going off, going BOOM, the whole histrionics of the shooting process. Ok, find her a rifle then buy her 2000 rounds of ammo. One mag. Then, just go shooting. Get used to the sound and fury to the point where it becomes background noise. Make her load her own mags, clean the weapon, become familiar with it. When she's done it enough that the process of shooting becomes a non event she'll be a better marksman for it.
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Old 07-19-2018, 03:16 PM   #50
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No, no amount of physical training will prepare her for it, but no physical training is irresponsible and almost suicide.
Never implied that, just saying running 5-milers' at __ pace in perfect conditions is much different than what she'll experience.

If she can run near the PT standard in the worst conditions (0400H / exhausted / glycogen & sodium depleted) prior to basic then she'll be very successful. I hope the best for her, if she has a good base in high school related fitness (track/crosscountry/weightlifting/-genetics-) then she'll be better off than the general majority.
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