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Old 03-12-2018, 12:07 PM   #1
sorryuquit
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Default Some ideas to frustrate the anti-gun crowd.

I just happened on this guys website, gunlaws.com. He has some really good ideas about laws that should be proposed. How about:

The Gun Free Zone Liability Act. It says if a person or business creates a gun-free zone and you get hurt because you gave up your right to self-defense to enter the business, the business owner is financially liable.

The American Historical Rights Protection Act. It says states cannot prosecute a person for having a gun on their person as long as they are not legally prohibited from having a gun, the presence of the gun is not interfering with the normal operation of the business, and the gun is not prohibited by federal law.

These are just two of the model proposals he offers. There are one or two filers, I'm sure that like to be a pain in the rear of their federal and state representatives. This is a good way to add a burr under the saddle of anti-gun types.

http://www.gunlaws.com/ModelLegislation.htm
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Old 03-12-2018, 02:38 PM   #2
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The American Historical Rights Protection Act. It says states cannot prosecute a person for having a gun on their person as long as they are not legally prohibited from having a gun, the presence of the gun is not interfering with the normal operation of the business, and the gun is not prohibited by federal law.
Did you copy this verbatim, OP?

Not sure about this one ( "what business?" )
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Old 03-12-2018, 02:47 PM   #3
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Did you copy this verbatim, OP?

Not sure about this one ( "what business?" )
I believe the purpose of this one is to over-ride property rights by suggesting that property owners cannot preclude other non-owners of that property from keeping and bearing arms when on that property.
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Old 03-12-2018, 03:28 PM   #4
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Did you copy this verbatim, OP?

Not sure about this one ( "what business?" )
No, I paraphrased. I provided a link at the bottom so you may get more information first hand. Maybe premise would be a better word than business.
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Old 03-12-2018, 03:34 PM   #5
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The stated goal is to frustrate anti-gun types. I may or may not agree with all of this guy's ideas, but think if any of them got introduced as bills in a legislature.
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Old 03-12-2018, 03:34 PM   #6
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No, I paraphrased. I provided a link at the bottom so you may get more information first hand. Maybe premise would be a better word than business.
Still doesn't make sense.

Anyway, if it's aimed at liberals, it doesn't have to make sense, does it?



. . . and we've already gone over what to do with shop owners who restrict freedoms - stop shopping there.
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Old 03-12-2018, 06:52 PM   #7
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How many of those suggested laws have criminal fines and jail time for the officers or other enforcement officials who violate them? The trouble with most laws is the "little people" they affect (you and me) face fines and/or jail time if we violate them. Something as minor as doing 65 in a 55 zone on a highway can result in a fine that is more than some folks earn for a day's work.

OTOH, since there are usually no personal penalties for government officials who violate laws restricting their official actions, there is no incentive for them to obey them.

Say I am travelling through NJ with a Colt AR15, a dozen 30rd Pmags, and a crate of ammo secured in locked containers in the trunk of my car. I'm going to a rifle match in New Hampshire. Federal law says I am perfectly legal to do so and local laws to the contrary do not apply. I get pulled over by a NJ state trooper and asked if I have any firearms in the car. I say yes, an AR15 locked in a case in the locked trunk. What do you think happens next? Based on accounts from numerous gun owners over the years, at a minimum the "illegal assault weapon" and "banned high capacity ammunition feeding devices" will be confiscated along with all that dangerous ammunition. I could also be arrested for illegal possession of same.

I hire an atty ($$$) and eventually get the charges dismissed due to the state AW ban being nullified by the Fed law. Now I have to sue them for the return of my property. More $$$. MAYBE after spending much more than the property is worth I will get a court to order my property returned. If it hasn't already been destroyed. How do I take possession of it without violating NJ state law? What happens when that nice state trooper pulls me over again on the way home with my now rusty and dinged up AR15 in the trunk?

The scenario above has played out numerous times over the years. The anti-gun jurisdictions count on the fact that it will cost you too much time and money to get your guns back so they violate the law. At worst, they have to spend some taxpayer money to defend against a lawsuit.

Now imagine if you will that same NJ state trooper is faced with a new reality. The Fed law in question states that it is a crime punishable by a year in jail and a $10,000 fine to violate it by confiscating legally transported firearms. And the Feds actually are arresting and prosecuting cops who do so, as well as local DAs who file charges. How long before you can feel safe driving through NJ with an AR15 in your trunk?
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Old 03-12-2018, 08:30 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by KernelKrink View Post
How many of those suggested laws have criminal fines and jail time for the officers or other enforcement officials who violate them? The trouble with most laws is the "little people" they affect (you and me) face fines and/or jail time if we violate them. Something as minor as doing 65 in a 55 zone on a highway can result in a fine that is more than some folks earn for a day's work.

OTOH, since there are usually no personal penalties for government officials who violate laws restricting their official actions, there is no incentive for them to obey them.

Say I am travelling through NJ with a Colt AR15, a dozen 30rd Pmags, and a crate of ammo secured in locked containers in the trunk of my car. I'm going to a rifle match in New Hampshire. Federal law says I am perfectly legal to do so and local laws to the contrary do not apply. I get pulled over by a NJ state trooper and asked if I have any firearms in the car. I say yes, an AR15 locked in a case in the locked trunk. What do you think happens next? Based on accounts from numerous gun owners over the years, at a minimum the "illegal assault weapon" and "banned high capacity ammunition feeding devices" will be confiscated along with all that dangerous ammunition. I could also be arrested for illegal possession of same.

I hire an atty ($$$) and eventually get the charges dismissed due to the state AW ban being nullified by the Fed law. Now I have to sue them for the return of my property. More $$$. MAYBE after spending much more than the property is worth I will get a court to order my property returned. If it hasn't already been destroyed. How do I take possession of it without violating NJ state law? What happens when that nice state trooper pulls me over again on the way home with my now rusty and dinged up AR15 in the trunk?

The scenario above has played out numerous times over the years. The anti-gun jurisdictions count on the fact that it will cost you too much time and money to get your guns back so they violate the law. At worst, they have to spend some taxpayer money to defend against a lawsuit.

Now imagine if you will that same NJ state trooper is faced with a new reality. The Fed law in question states that it is a crime punishable by a year in jail and a $10,000 fine to violate it by confiscating legally transported firearms. And the Feds actually are arresting and prosecuting cops who do so, as well as local DAs who file charges. How long before you can feel safe driving through NJ with an AR15 in your trunk?
If you read his proposed laws, he has a section called comatas provisions, that does exactly that. It prescribes fines and jail time for government officials violating laws.
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Rest In Peace my fallen BROTHER, YOU WILL NEVER BE FORGOTTEN!!!
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Old 03-13-2018, 01:33 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by KernelKrink View Post
How many of those suggested laws have criminal fines and jail time for the officers or other enforcement officials who violate them? The trouble with most laws is the "little people" they affect (you and me) face fines and/or jail time if we violate them. Something as minor as doing 65 in a 55 zone on a highway can result in a fine that is more than some folks earn for a day's work.

OTOH, since there are usually no personal penalties for government officials who violate laws restricting their official actions, there is no incentive for them to obey them.

Say I am travelling through NJ with a Colt AR15, a dozen 30rd Pmags, and a crate of ammo secured in locked containers in the trunk of my car. I'm going to a rifle match in New Hampshire. Federal law says I am perfectly legal to do so and local laws to the contrary do not apply. I get pulled over by a NJ state trooper and asked if I have any firearms in the car. I say yes, an AR15 locked in a case in the locked trunk. What do you think happens next? Based on accounts from numerous gun owners over the years, at a minimum the "illegal assault weapon" and "banned high capacity ammunition feeding devices" will be confiscated along with all that dangerous ammunition. I could also be arrested for illegal possession of same.

I hire an atty ($$$) and eventually get the charges dismissed due to the state AW ban being nullified by the Fed law. Now I have to sue them for the return of my property. More $$$. MAYBE after spending much more than the property is worth I will get a court to order my property returned. If it hasn't already been destroyed. How do I take possession of it without violating NJ state law? What happens when that nice state trooper pulls me over again on the way home with my now rusty and dinged up AR15 in the trunk?

The scenario above has played out numerous times over the years. The anti-gun jurisdictions count on the fact that it will cost you too much time and money to get your guns back so they violate the law. At worst, they have to spend some taxpayer money to defend against a lawsuit.

Now imagine if you will that same NJ state trooper is faced with a new reality. The Fed law in question states that it is a crime punishable by a year in jail and a $10,000 fine to violate it by confiscating legally transported firearms. And the Feds actually are arresting and prosecuting cops who do so, as well as local DAs who file charges. How long before you can feel safe driving through NJ with an AR15 in your trunk?
Ted Cruz introduced a bill that has an outstanding response to this exact problem.

In short any arrest of this sort that is not justified entitles the arrestee to having all legal fees covered by the state.

Still would suck tremendously, but it shows that Cruz and others get the problem.
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Old 03-13-2018, 12:21 PM   #10
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If you read his proposed laws, he has a section called comatas provisions, that does exactly that. It prescribes fines and jail time for government officials violating laws.
This guy knows how to put teeth in a law.

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Ted Cruz introduced a bill that has an outstanding response to this exact problem.

In short any arrest of this sort that is not justified entitles the arrestee to having all legal fees covered by the state.

Still would suck tremendously, but it shows that Cruz and others get the problem.
That just costs the taxpayers money. And you would still have to initiate a civil proceeding against the assholes in most cases anyway. Unless it costs the arresting officer and/or agency directly there is no incentive to follow the law. How many folks would be doing 85 in a 55 every day if they knew the only "punishment" was someone else pays your ticket?
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