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Old 11-10-2017, 12:31 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by GDubya View Post
I feel the joy of your addiction Brother. I've been an old school 870P (tac) die-hard for 15+ years and that'll never falter. Yet somehow in 3 days, I'm jonesin', finding & buyin' a VEPR 12 at pre-ban pricing. My other carbines are only AKs and, nevermind their reliability, there's just something primal/guttural about runnin' a Ruskie... DA!
And while my 3G buddies are gonna call this Strike 2!, my 1911 ain't never leaving my primary carry.

Night Owl, Grab your desires: Enjoy your M4!
Thanks. I'm also listening to the Beretta 1301 advocates and taking a look at that as well. One thing that has given me pause on the M4 is that the model I wanted with the collapsible stock, has received a few negative reviews. Also, the Marine Corps version, the 1016 model, has a fixed position stock, making me think the Marines didn't care for the collapsible stock either?

I like what I've read of the 1301 so far. Is the M4 really worth almost double the price of the 1301? That is the question right now.

Decisions,decisions....
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Old 11-10-2017, 02:19 AM   #37
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See if you can find a indoor range that has both to rent and compare them if possible, or see if you know anyone local to you that has both. I was lucky enough to have a couple m2's before and had a friend that had an m4 and when I shot it realized how nice it was and found one local at a steal of a price so I went for it.
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Old 11-10-2017, 06:35 PM   #38
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Anyone have first hand knowledge on the "shell dump" issue with the 1301?

[URL="https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/beretta-1301-tactical-peoples-shotgun-part-2/"]Anyone have any input on the 1301 bolt carrier release issue (see video)

Last edited by Big_Red_Rocket; 11-10-2017 at 06:36 PM. Reason: Cleaned the link
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Old 11-10-2017, 08:54 PM   #39
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How to induce the jam.............and how to clear it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYP20wxbHUk

Latch and shroud upgrade to address accidently hitting the rear of the latch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X1lOSec3yI

Last edited by AllTen; 11-10-2017 at 09:02 PM.
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Old 11-11-2017, 01:10 AM   #40
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The Beretta 1301's "fatal flaw" is what makes me hesitant to get that gun. Beretta needs to fix that problem ASAP if they haven't already. I'd love to save a grand but not at the expense of reliability.
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Old 11-11-2017, 01:49 AM   #41
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When I saw the 1st video that detailed the 1301's so called "fatal flaw", I was concerned.

Quite a few folks have said they've never induced a jam by accident (by accidently hitting the latch), but the issue still gave me pause.

The latch cover upgrade, either by Airidus or by Tau, addresses the issue for me to my satisfaction, although my initial reaction was that Beretta should've addressed this long ago instead of the aftermarket machinists coming up w/a fix.

After shooting the Beretta a couple times, I'm not as concerned, and was impressed by its lightweight and compactness, put a deposit on the gun, and will pay it off fairly soon, and I do plan to use it for HD.

I'm a "lefty" and I don't have my off hand anywhere near the latch, or that side (the right side) of the receiver, and/or bolt release of any of my long guns when I'm carrying around the house, or at the range, and I've NEVER accidently bumped up against/accidently pushed the latch/bolt release on any of my guns.

There's always a first time, but I've never done it..........and I now know how to clear a jam on a 1301 if it happens.

This isn't going to be a problem for me.

When I get the gun and get some time at the range, if this is the only issue that comes up...................................If it ever comes up............... I'll be GTG.

Every man's got to make his own choice, so if you're concerned by this Night Owl, you certainly got to go w/your gut.

Last edited by AllTen; 11-11-2017 at 02:23 AM.
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Old 11-11-2017, 04:49 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllTen View Post
When I saw the 1st video that detailed the 1301's so called "fatal flaw", I was concerned.

Quite a few folks have said they've never induced a jam by accident (by accidently hitting the latch), but the issue still gave me pause.

The latch cover upgrade, either by Airidus or by Tau, addresses the issue for me to my satisfaction, although my initial reaction was that Beretta should've addressed this long ago instead of the aftermarket machinists coming up w/a fix.

After shooting the Beretta a couple times, I'm not as concerned, and was impressed by its lightweight and compactness, put a deposit on the gun, and will pay it off fairly soon, and I do plan to use it for HD.

I'm a "lefty" and I don't have my off hand anywhere near the latch, or that side (the right side) of the receiver, and/or bolt release of any of my long guns when I'm carrying around the house, or at the range, and I've NEVER accidently bumped up against/accidently pushed the latch/bolt release on any of my guns.

There's always a first time, but I've never done it..........and I now know how to clear a jam on a 1301 if it happens.

This isn't going to be a problem for me.

When I get the gun and get some time at the range, if this is the only issue that comes up...................................If it ever comes up............... I'll be GTG.

Every man's got to make his own choice, so if you're concerned by this Night Owl, you certainly got to go w/your gut.
Quite simply, I need to be able to know that if I'm ever awoke out of a dead sleep and need to use my HD shotgun, that there is little chance for a malfunction if I were to get into a firefight in my home. The fact that the aftermarket had to come to the rescue to fix the 1301's "fatal flaw" is pathetic on the part of Beretta.

That's why I'm going to stick with the M4. But I'm going to have to pay $$$ for the model I want which is the LE version of the tactical model.
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Old 11-11-2017, 03:10 PM   #43
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I agree 100% as to only you can make the choice of what tool you select to defend your life with.................for whatever reason.

Good luck with the Benelli.............................and I'll wish myself good luck w/the Beretta 1301 Tactical.
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Old 11-11-2017, 03:20 PM   #44
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This has been my thought as well and I see a Beneli M4 in my future as a Christmas gift to myself. Such a fine firearm.
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Old 11-11-2017, 04:31 PM   #45
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After posting my last reply here I went to the Cal-Guns forum since I'm a member there also, and spotted an old discussion regarding the "fatal flaw" issue and what Beretta may be doing about it.

Night Owl is right about it being pathetic for Beretta to take three years after a gun comes out to fix a known flaw; they may possibly be doing something about it now, so I'll link to the discussion here...........

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1329675

I'll call Beretta myself to confirm what's being discussed here about Beretta's shipping their 1301 Tactical's w/a newly engineered bolt release.

If it is true, about the newly modified bolt release guns being shipped very soon, then I'll have the gentleman who I'm buying my 1301 Tactical from, hold onto my money until the new gun comes out.

I'm not posting this to sway anybody from the Benelli, if that's your gun you need to go get it...............

This is just to alert folks while we're on the subject, that Beretta may be doing something about the issue.

I'll check Monday, if I can get through.

Last edited by AllTen; 11-11-2017 at 09:31 PM.
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Old 11-11-2017, 11:25 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllTen View Post
After posting my last reply here I went to the Cal-Guns forum since I'm a member there also, and spotted an old discussion regarding the "fatal flaw" issue and what Beretta may be doing about it.

Night Owl is right about it being pathetic for Beretta to take three years after a gun comes out to fix a known flaw; they may possibly be doing something about it now, so I'll link to the discussion here...........

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1329675

I'll call Beretta myself to confirm what's being discussed here about Beretta's shipping their 1301 Tactical's w/a newly engineered bolt release.

If it is true, about the newly modified bolt release guns being shipped very soon, then I'll have the gentleman who I'm buying my 1301 Tactical from, hold onto my money until the new gun comes out.

I'm not posting this to sway anybody from the Benelli, if that's your gun you need to go get it...............

This is just to alert folks while we're on the subject, that Beretta may be doing something about the issue.

I'll check Monday, if I can get through.
That's good to hear. Please post back in this thread with any new info.
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Old 11-12-2017, 08:55 PM   #47
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I'm a sucker for shotguns. Though I greatly respect the fancy Benellis and Veprs, I actually prefer cheap-ass, simple, no-frills shotguns.
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Old 11-12-2017, 11:26 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Night Owl View Post
I like what I've read of the 1301 so far. Is the M4 really worth almost double the price of the 1301? That is the question right now.

Decisions,decisions....
Not in the least

I would get a Benelli M2 over the Beretta 1301 though
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Old 11-13-2017, 03:40 PM   #49
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I've spent some time over the weekend researching/trying to learn as much as I could about the 1301.

This whole issue, the so called "fatal flaw", and how this has scared quite a few folks away from buying the gun, came about because somebody chose to ignore the old cliche........KISS(keep it simple stupid) and/or "if it ain't broke don't fix it.

This gun was Beretta's TX4 Storm, and then rebadged the Beretta "1301", and the plain and simple button style bolt/shell release configuration of the TX4 was changed at that time to the larger and somewhat more obtrusive "paddle" style bolt/shell release on the 1301.

A gentleman on the Beretta forum characterized the change as an unnecessary attempt at "tacticool". I tend to agree.

I feel like Beretta would've been better off just leaving the bolt release the way it was on the TX4 Storm when they rebadged the gun.

The possibility of a double feed malfunction from pushing the bolt release at the wrong time isn't unique to the Beretta 1301, and it's my understanding that several shotguns share this same design, like the Mossberg 930.

From my research, I'd say there are two opposing camps debating this issue about the shotgun. One camp consists of folks who own and have a great amount of experience w/the gun who insist that there is no fatal flaw.

These folks point out that the shell release does exactly what it's designed to do which is release shells, and that it's impossible to unload shells from the bottom of the gun unless you first push the carrier up and out of the way.

These folks say it's impossible for you not to know that, and ask why would you push the bolt release when the bolt is already closed, or before you get the carrier out of the way to release the shells. These folks say this is a training issue and/or an unecessary double feed as a result of folks who're unfamiliar w/the gun, and an issue that goes away as you become proficient w/the gun.

As to the accidental/unintentional hitting of the paddle to induce a double feed, I found that most of the folks who have a great deal of experience w/the gun say they've never experienced a double feed bumping the gun into something. To be fair, there has been mention of double feeds from folks who were less familiar w/the gun.

The opposing camp responds, "say what you want................this is a design flaw".

As to the accidental hitting/bumping your shotgun into something, I'll chime in w/my personal observations about that. Shotguns are not drop safe........they're not bump safe. Folks have bumped their shotguns into/against something and they've gone off.

About once a week, and when everybody else is out of my house (so they don't think I've gone crazy), I spend an hour or 2 walking around my house w/my shotguns (unloaded), and I also do it at night and in the dark, to reduce the risk of dropping, or bumping these guns into something and have them go off.

Dropping a shotgun, or bumping into something w/a shotgun, is dangerous and should be avoided at all costs, whether it's to avoid this issue, or the gun going off and accidently killing somebody.

I'll include a video of a gentleman demonstrating the Beretta TX4 storm, and you'll recognize it instantly as the rebadged Beretta 1301 and when you watch it, notice the previous iteration of the bolt release which is a simple and unobtrusive button, which I personally believe Beretta should've left alone.

Additionally, I researched a BOATLOAD of videos, and this video happens to be the clearest, most concise, most informative demonstration of the operation of the gun.

You can unload the 1301 two ways, you can push the appropriate buttons and cycle your shells into the chamber and then rack them out of the ejection port, or you can push up the carrier, and then push the right button, and they come out from the bottom of the gun.

The carrier HAS to be PUSHED UP to get the shells out that way, and you've got to do that first, BEFORE you push a button, to get the shells out through the bottom.

You HAVE to do that w/ANY shotgun w/a shell carrier

Here's the link to the video........



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wm35b2mGcH4



I talked at length w/a Beretta service rep, and believe you me, they are very aware of all this. They believe it would be difficult to hit the paddle/bolt release accidently on a 1301, and cause a double feed, and that folks have watched a video of someone intentionally causing a double feed which they point out isn't the same as accidently hitting the paddle, hence the concern.

The gentleman I talked to stated that he's personally been involved in several torture tests where they haven't been able to induce a double feed by accident by trying to bump the gun into things.

Regardless of whoever's right about the degree of the problem, or the perception that there is a problem, or the perception that there is more of a problem than there really is.................. the rep told me that Beretta will be shipping their new guns w/an upgrade to address/prevent hitting the bolt release by accident some time after the new year 2018.

If you're interested in getting the gun, you can wait, there is a light at the end of the tunnel via the upgrade.

Also...................you can get the TX4 latch that was on the TX4 Storm (the 1301 before it was rebadged, and the bolt release changed). It's $50.00 and change plus shipping and only fits the 1301 tactical per the service rep. You can get it at this link...........



https://www.brownells.com/shotgun-pa...959-77313.aspx



For me, I've contacted the gentleman about my deposit on the 1301.....told him to hold onto my money until the upgraded guns start shipping.

If I'm happy w/how Beretta addresses upgrading the paddle, I'll stick w/it.........if not............I'll purchase the TX4 latch that came w/the TX4 Storm, and have that installed.

Last edited by AllTen; 11-14-2017 at 01:46 PM.
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Old 11-14-2017, 05:05 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllTen View Post
I've spent some time over the weekend researching/trying to learn as much as I could about the 1301.

This whole issue, the so called "fatal flaw", and how this has scared quite a few folks away from buying the gun, came about because somebody chose to ignore the old cliche........KISS(keep it simple stupid) and/or "if it ain't broke don't fix it.

This gun was Beretta's TX4 Storm, and then rebadged the Beretta "1301", and the plain and simple button style bolt/shell release configuration of the TX4 was changed at that time to the larger and somewhat more obtrusive "paddle" style bolt/shell release on the 1301.

A gentleman on the Beretta forum characterized the change as an unnecessary attempt at "tacticool". I tend to agree.

I feel like Beretta would've been better off just leaving the bolt release the way it was on the TX4 Storm when they rebadged the gun.

The possibility of a double feed malfunction from pushing the bolt release at the wrong time isn't unique to the Beretta 1301, and it's my understanding that several shotguns share this same design, like the Mossberg 930.

From my research, I'd say there are two opposing camps debating this issue about the shotgun. One camp consists of folks who own and have a great amount of experience w/the gun who insist that there is no fatal flaw.

These folks point out that the shell release does exactly what it's designed to do which is release shells, and that it's impossible to unload shells from the bottom of the gun unless you first push the carrier up and out of the way.

These folks say it's impossible for you not to know that, and ask why would you push the bolt release when the bolt is already closed, or before you get the carrier out of the way to release the shells. These folks say this is a training issue and/or an unecessary double feed as a result of folks who're unfamiliar w/the gun, and an issue that goes away as you become proficient w/the gun.

As to the accidental/unintentional hitting of the paddle to induce a double feed, I found that most of the folks who have a great deal of experience w/the gun say they've never experienced a double feed bumping the gun into something. To be fair, there has been mention of double feeds from folks who were less familiar w/the gun.

The opposing camp responds, "say what you want................this is a design flaw".

As to the accidental hitting/bumping your shotgun into something, I'll chime in w/my personal observations about that. Shotguns are not drop safe........they're not bump safe. Folks have bumped their shotguns into/against something and they've gone off.

About once a week, and when everybody else is out of my house (so they don't think I've gone crazy), I spend an hour or 2 walking around my house w/my shotguns (unloaded), and I also do it at night and in the dark, to reduce the risk of dropping, or bumping these guns into something and have them go off.

Dropping a shotgun, or bumping into something w/a shotgun, is dangerous and should be avoided at all costs, whether it's to avoid this issue, or the gun going off and accidently killing somebody.

I'll include a video of a gentleman demonstrating the Beretta TX4 storm, and you'll recognize it instantly as the rebadged Beretta 1301 and when you watch it, notice the previous iteration of the bolt release which is a simple and unobtrusive button, which I personally believe Beretta should've left alone.

Additionally, I researched a BOATLOAD of videos, and this video happens to be the clearest, most concise, most informative demonstration of the operation of the gun.

You can unload the 1301 two ways, you can push the appropriate buttons and cycle your shells into the chamber and then rack them out of the ejection port, or you can push up the carrier, and then push the right button, and they come out from the bottom of the gun.

The carrier HAS to be PUSHED UP to get the shells out that way, and you've got to do that first, BEFORE you push a button, to get the shells out through the bottom.

You HAVE to do that w/ANY shotgun w/a shell carrier

Here's the link to the video........



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wm35b2mGcH4



I talked at length w/a Beretta service rep, and believe you me, they are very aware of all this. They believe it would be difficult to hit the paddle/bolt release accidently on a 1301, and cause a double feed, and that folks have watched a video of someone intentionally causing a double feed which they point out isn't the same as accidently hitting the paddle, hence the concern.

The gentleman I talked to stated that he's personally been involved in several torture tests where they haven't been able to induce a double feed by accident by trying to bump the gun into things.

Regardless of whoever's right about the degree of the problem, or the perception that there is a problem, or the perception that there is more of a problem than there really is.................. the rep told me that Beretta will be shipping their new guns w/an upgrade to address/prevent hitting the bolt release by accident some time after the new year 2018.

If you're interested in getting the gun, you can wait, there is a light at the end of the tunnel via the upgrade.

Also...................you can get the TX4 latch that was on the TX4 Storm (the 1301 before it was rebadged, and the bolt release changed). It's $50.00 and change plus shipping and only fits the 1301 tactical per the service rep. You can get it at this link...........



https://www.brownells.com/shotgun-pa...959-77313.aspx



For me, I've contacted the gentleman about my deposit on the 1301.....told him to hold onto my money until the upgraded guns start shipping.

If I'm happy w/how Beretta addresses upgrading the paddle, I'll stick w/it.........if not............I'll purchase the TX4 latch that came w/the TX4 Storm, and have that installed.
You are absolutely 100% correct.


What I think this is, is someone found out about this "flaw", ran with it, and now it is what it is.

Reason I say this is because when I got my Mossberg 930 I ran into a feeding issue which caused my bolt to get locked rearward on a full tube. (I fixed the issue with 30 seconds with some sand paper and a dremel polish wheel) Anyways, I noticed that the Mossberg would double feed and cause a jam. HMMMM I thought, this is exactly the flaw the 1301 has!

Wrong, it isn't a flaw at all. And more importantly I realized that this "flaw" wasn't that easy to make happen. I had to purposefully press the button and make it happen.

So there is nothing at all wrong with the 1301 if you run it like it should be ran.
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Old 11-14-2017, 05:49 PM   #51
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"You are absolutely 100% correct.


What I think this is, is someone found out about this "flaw", ran with it, and now it is what it is.

Reason I say this is because when I got my Mossberg 930 I ran into a feeding issue which caused my bolt to get locked rearward on a full tube. (I fixed the issue with 30 seconds with some sand paper and a dremel polish wheel) Anyways, I noticed that the Mossberg would double feed and cause a jam. HMMMM I thought, this is exactly the flaw the 1301 has!

Wrong, it isn't a flaw at all. And more importantly I realized that this "flaw" wasn't that easy to make happen. I had to purposefully press the button and make it happen.

So there is nothing at all wrong with the 1301 if you run it like it should be ran."




Sometimes you can get the wrong impression from a review of a gun by somebody that isn't all that familiar w/the gun, and the "fatal flaw" phrase caught on like wildfire, and I think this got blown way out of whack for what it is.

I sure wish that Beretta had just kept the bolt release the way it was as the TX4 Storm, because I think it would be almost impossible to accidently hit a small button like that and induce a double feed. If you let my Versa Max tip over on the carpet, it will hit the charging handle which is on that side first.

Bumping any shotgun like this on the right side against anything, you're going to hit the charging handle first.

There's more of a probability of you being attacked and eaten by sharks while taking a bath in your own bathtub, than hitting the "itty bitty" button on the TX4. They went to the paddle, the videos are out there inducing the double feed, and it looks bad. It looks terrible, and folks say....."bad gun".

A number of the folks say the paddle was a bad idea, and it was. It does stick out quite a bit more, and so after seeing videos of the jam, the paddle will understandably stay on your mind.

As the video I linked showing the demonstration of the gun indicates, you can easily unload the gun without ever touching the paddle, and with the gun loaded and the bolt closed, there's NO REASON to be pressing on the paddle.

This whole affair puts a re-emphasis (at least for me) on making sure you investigate the strong points and weaknesses of a firearm with the folks who have the most experience w/a gun and not just these videos, some of which are done by folks who're new to the gun themselves.

The folks who're experienced w/the 1301 are right when they suggest that trying to get shells out of the bottom of the gun without pushing the carrier out of the way FIRST......... is impossible....and so when you hit the shell release without doing that.......the resulting jam............... isn't the fault of the gun.

Practice should make this go away.

Check back w/the video, I think it's excellent, because it shows you can load, unload, or shoot the 1301 without ever touching paddle if you so choose.

Some folks will still be soured on the gun, but it's light, it's short, it's maneuverable, and so I'll be fine with it.

Last edited by AllTen; 11-14-2017 at 06:18 PM.
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Old 11-14-2017, 06:58 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllTen View Post
Sometimes you can get the wrong impression from a review of a gun by somebody that isn't all that familiar w/the gun, and the "fatal flaw" phrase caught on like wildfire, and I think this got blown way out of whack for what it is.

I sure wish that Beretta had just kept the bolt release the way it was as the TX4 Storm, because I think it would be almost impossible to accidently hit a small button like that and induce a double feed. If you let my Versa Max tip over on the carpet, it will hit the charging handle which is on that side first.

Bumping any shotgun like this on the right side against anything, you're going to hit the charging handle first.

There's more of a probability of you being attacked and eaten by sharks while taking a bath in your own bathtub, than hitting the "itty bitty" button on the TX4. They went to the paddle, the videos are out there inducing the double feed, and it looks bad. It looks terrible, and folks say....."bad gun".

A number of the folks say the paddle was a bad idea, and it was. It does stick out quite a bit more, and so after seeing videos of the jam, the paddle will understandably stay on your mind.

As the video I linked showing the demonstration of the gun indicates, you can easily unload the gun without ever touching the paddle, and with the gun loaded and the bolt closed, there's NO REASON to be pressing on the paddle.

This whole affair puts a re-emphasis (at least for me) on making sure you investigate the strong points and weaknesses of a firearm with the folks who have the most experience w/a gun and not just these videos, some of which are done by folks who're new to the gun themselves.

The folks who're experienced w/the 1301 are right when they suggest that trying to get shells out of the bottom of the gun without pushing the carrier out of the way FIRST......... is impossible....and so when you hit the shell release without doing that.......the resulting jam............... isn't the fault of the gun.

Practice should make this go away.

Check back w/the video, I think it's excellent, because it shows you can load, unload, or shoot the 1301 without ever touching paddle if you so choose.

Some folks will still be soured on the gun, but it's light, it's short, it's maneuverable, and so I'll be fine with it.
Agreed, I think Beretta's fatal flaw was making the bolt release a huge paddle. But in their defense, the reason is because of the recent flood of operators and people wanting to be an operator.

I'm a much much bigger fan of KISS.

With all this being said I'm very glad you looked into that. I think I will pick up one of those bolt releases for the TX4 just in case I ever get a 1301. I'd rather have it and not need it 2 years from now than need it 2 years from now and they are discontinued. KISS and you will be just fine!
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Old 11-14-2017, 08:45 PM   #53
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I'll probably do the same thing and pick up two of the TX4 button assemblies. BTW.............I did ask the Beretta rep if you lose any function w/TX4 button as opposed to the paddle, and he said no.
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Old 11-14-2017, 10:15 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllTen View Post
I'll probably do the same thing and pick up two of the TX4 button assemblies. BTW.............I did ask the Beretta rep if you lose any function w/TX4 button as opposed to the paddle, and he said no.
Sounds like a no brainer to me. Iím baffled that no one else came to this fix.
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Old Today, 05:23 AM   #55
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My buddy has the Beretta and I have a Benelli M4 and honestly it's a no-brainer as far as which gun is better but the price tag on the Benelli can be a deal-breaker and I understand that.
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