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#1 |
Member
AKaholic #: 195147 Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Ravensdale, WA
Posts: 102
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Hey all, new to the forum, lots of great info and Im slowly making my way through. I recently got a Vepr AK-74 and its already one of my favorite all time rifles to shoot. I want to add a second rifle in 5.45x39, and Im looking at an Arsenal SLR104. Considering getting a factory SBR vs. a 16 version with short gas system and getting it cut down later.
Pros / cons? Obviously the factory SBR is more expensive out of the block, but when you add in the cost to cut / rethread, engrave, etc. would it be close enough so that it makes more sense to avoid the hassle of getting the rifle cut down? NFA wait time is not an issue if I go the factory SBR route. For people who had the 16 barrel cut down, did you have any issues with the rifle after that? Who did you use to do the work? I did do a quick search on this subject and didnt see anything obvious pop up, I apologize if this has been covered before. |
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#2 |
Low balling stupid BASTARD
AKaholic #: 172241 Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Charleston,IL
Posts: 6,563
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Save yourself $800 and chop it yourself. I did and it's been issue free for well over 10,000 rounds.
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#3 |
Member
Bronze Contributor
AKaholic #: 191657 Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Odessa, TX
Posts: 341
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$75 at the local gunsmith to cut/crown.
$20 at the local tombstone engraver for laser etching Form 1 requirements on receiver. |
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#4 |
Member
AKaholic #: 195147 Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Ravensdale, WA
Posts: 102
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I don't have the tools / skills to do it myself. The one gunsmith I know locally who could have done it, hurt his back and is no longer in business. So I'd probably have to send it off
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#5 |
Member
AKaholic #: 195147 Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Ravensdale, WA
Posts: 102
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#6 |
Low balling stupid BASTARD
AKaholic #: 172241 Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Charleston,IL
Posts: 6,563
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The only tools you need are a hacksaw, a drill, a brass screw, and some valve grind compound.
My local jeweler engraved mine for a whopping $10. I had everything but the brass screw and valve grind compound, i think that set me back another $10. It's way easier than you're making it out to be.
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#7 |
Senior Member
AKaholic #: 183657 Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: down the hallway, 3rd left and 2nd right.
Posts: 905
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Rent 90 degree cutter to even out surface, rest can be accomplished with what chknfkr mentioned.
If you get 90 degree tool, might as well get 11 degree crown tool, but tbh brass screw does job just as well. All together about 30 min of your time. Before someone links V8Merc124, he no longer rents tools. |
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#8 | |
Veteran Member
AKaholic #: 3927 Join Date: May 2005
Location: In my bunker
Posts: 1,986
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$4.00 valve grinding paste $5.00 hacksaw from Lowes = SBR your own rifle for under $10.00 ![]()
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I love guns..... |
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#9 |
Member
AKaholic #: 168540 Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 56
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I purchased an SLR-104UR and if I had to do it over again, I would have just purchased the factory SBR.
What some of the people commenting earlier failed to mention is that with the new 104URs, Arsenal placed a gas restrictor "donut" inside the FSB/Gas Block assembly. You can no longer just do an at home cut and crown, that information is outdated. What this means is that the whole front sight assembly has to get: 1) Unpinned 2) Pressed off with a hydraulic press 3) Gas port 'donut' drilled out 4) Front sight assembly pressed back on w/hydraulic press 5) Sight realignment 5) Repinned All this is in addition to the barrel cut and crown plus engraving. Most gunsmiths do not work on AKs and do not have the tooling required to do so. Unless you're willing to buy all the tools yourself, you're going to have to send it out. So realistically, not including the Tax Stamp and Trust Cost, this is what you're looking at: SLR 104UR Rifle: $1300 Gunsmithing Fees: $175 Shipping Fees: $60 Muzzle Device: $120 Engraving: $45 TOTAL: $1,700 Now compare that with the price K-VAR is charging for the Arsenal SLR-104 SBR and it's a no-brainer: $1,939 So realistically, you're only saving about $240 by getting the non-SBR version and converting it yourself. However, since factory SBR's hold their values better than conversions, it's a wash. |
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#10 | |
Member
AKaholic #: 195147 Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Ravensdale, WA
Posts: 102
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#11 | |
Low balling stupid BASTARD
AKaholic #: 172241 Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Charleston,IL
Posts: 6,563
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Mine was an early one without a restrictor. I have $1350 in mine including the stamp. If I sold it, it's worth much more than that. The "factory" guns in fact are not factory. Arsenal Inc. cuts and crowns them state side. In other words they do the exact same thing that guys like myself are doing, but then marking them up an extra $800. These "factory" guns do not hold their value. The last used one i saw on the marketplace here sold for $1500 iirc.
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#12 |
Senior Member
AKaholic #: 187837 Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: blueridge mountains
Posts: 861
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Mine had the donut, as mentioned not a big deal.
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#13 |
Member
AKaholic #: 157962 Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Either the 2nd or 3rd level of hell. It's too hot to tell.
Posts: 175
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If you can operate a power drill and a hacksaw. You can cut and crown it yourself. Buy a 16".
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#14 |
Member
AKaholic #: 184494 Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: North America
Posts: 316
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Went with the factory for better resale value and less hassle and lack of engraving.. if you don't give a shit about selling it sometime then go the DIY route
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#15 |
Member
AKaholic #: 185814 Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 365
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I bought a newer 16" version with the gas restrictor. Paid 350 for gunsmithing and engraving, bringing my total to approximately 1600 bucks (not including tax stamp). If I had to do it all over again, I'd just get the factory SBR; more expensive, but less of a pain in the dick.
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Goat Rescue Squad Team Six |
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#16 | |
Member
AKaholic #: 185814 Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 365
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Goat Rescue Squad Team Six |
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#17 | |
Curio & Relic
AKaholic #: 192572 Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Shop or Lake
Posts: 3,242
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Brass screw job is pointless if cut isn't square |
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#18 | |
5.45 FTW
AKaholic #: 157129 Join Date: May 2011
Location: somewhere between West and East
Posts: 1,164
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I vote for neither. We all know they don't have the proper turn ratio and will be a keyhole machine. All these garage gunsmiths telling you to do it yourself are feeding you a load of crap.
Arsenals are crap, their finish melts off if you look at it the wrong way, you can't SBR them because they all keyhole, 5.45 is a dead round. Better to buy a RAS47. Try these threads: http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170623 http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=238588 http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=255759 http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246526 http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=243065 http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=209770 Just a start... -Bob
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Quote:
Last edited by ryanr256; 01-11-2018 at 11:28 AM. |
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#19 | |
Guns & Coffee
AKaholic #: 159575 Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: United States, Bellingham, WA
Posts: 8,421
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![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Last edited by islandfocus2; 01-11-2018 at 01:18 PM. |
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#20 | |
Member
AKaholic #: 168540 Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 56
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The only bad information being spread is from those of you failing to point out that ALL NEW 104UR's COME WITH A RESTRICTOR IN THE GAS PORT. That changes things significantly. Back when all you had to do was cut/crown the barrel, I'd say getting the 104UR was the way to go. Now that there's a significant amount of extra gunsmithing work involved, there is very little cost-savings to be had and the whole process isn't worth the effort unless you already own all the tools OR have an local, affordable gunsmith who's willing to do the work. Yes, all of these 104's are imported with 16" barrels and then Arsenal does the final SBR work at their facility in LV. That's still considered a "Factory SBR" because the work wasn't done in a private garage by some bubba with a hacksaw and a vise. All things equal, if placed side by side in an auction, the factory SBR will fetch more money then the garage job will, therefore being the better investment. Going forward, anyone considering buying a SLR 104UR vs an SLR 104 SBR will have to weigh the additional gunsmithing costs and hassle required to convert a 104UR and decide for themselves if it's worth it. Last edited by NeptuneTriton; 01-11-2018 at 02:23 PM. |
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#21 | |
Guns & Coffee
AKaholic #: 159575 Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: United States, Bellingham, WA
Posts: 8,421
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![]() What if I used a dremel rather than a hacksaw. Would I still be considered BUBBA? |
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#22 |
Member
AKaholic #: 168540 Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 56
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Hahahah, well not everyone who converts it themselves is a "Bubba" - some of you do way better work then the "pros" do! It's just a figure of speech, no offense intended.
Last edited by NeptuneTriton; 01-11-2018 at 02:47 PM. |
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#23 |
Guns & Coffee
AKaholic #: 159575 Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: United States, Bellingham, WA
Posts: 8,421
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#24 | |
5.45 FTW
AKaholic #: 157129 Join Date: May 2011
Location: somewhere between West and East
Posts: 1,164
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And, I didn't even use a vise. -Bob |
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#25 |
Member
AKaholic #: 157962 Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Either the 2nd or 3rd level of hell. It's too hot to tell.
Posts: 175
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God lots of drama in this thread. why don't we just start a "meet up and circle jerk" thread so the tension dies down already.... OP just do what ever suits you financially the best. While arsenal's finish is not the best, it is a rifle built by a company who's main contracts are for warfighting and believe me warfighters don't give a flying fuck about finish. Also no, they don't keyhole.....
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#26 | |
Low balling stupid BASTARD
AKaholic #: 172241 Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Charleston,IL
Posts: 6,563
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The last used "factory" SBR sold om the marketplace here sold around $1500. That means the seller lost $400. Also, since his sale didn't cover the cost of his stamp he's out another $200. He's $600 in the red. I have $1350 in mime includimg the stamp. I guarantee if I sold it I would get more than that. Let's say though for the sake of argument that I was only able to sell it for what I have in it, $1350. In that case I have covered the cost of my stamp, and I would still be breaking even. Which one is the better investment?
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#27 | |
Guns & Coffee
AKaholic #: 159575 Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: United States, Bellingham, WA
Posts: 8,421
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Bob, did you hear that. They don't keyhole! ![]() |
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#28 |
Member
AKaholic #: 157962 Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Either the 2nd or 3rd level of hell. It's too hot to tell.
Posts: 175
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#29 |
Low balling stupid BASTARD
AKaholic #: 172241 Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Charleston,IL
Posts: 6,563
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That was satire
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#30 |
Member
AKaholic #: 157962 Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Either the 2nd or 3rd level of hell. It's too hot to tell.
Posts: 175
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![]() If you are saying the guy's response to my comment was satire, that's obvious. I was pointing out to him to look at ryanr256's comment about arsenals being trash and keyholing when cut down. Since islandfocus's response seemed to dictate that i was mentioning keyholing for no reason. If that was satire then welcome to the world of text communication i guess. |
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#31 | |
Low balling stupid BASTARD
AKaholic #: 172241 Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Charleston,IL
Posts: 6,563
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http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=211291
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#32 |
Member
AKaholic #: 157962 Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Either the 2nd or 3rd level of hell. It's too hot to tell.
Posts: 175
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#33 | ||
5.45 FTW
AKaholic #: 157129 Join Date: May 2011
Location: somewhere between West and East
Posts: 1,164
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And then, like clockwork, there's a post referencing Bubba's that cut their barrel in their garage (garage gunsmiths). This topic has been done to death here. That's why I provided links. Some of us derive amusement when topics such as this come up because, yes, we have been there, done that. Literally. Some of us were the first to submit our Form 1 even though we were told it will never shoot straight. Quote:
![]() -Bob |
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#34 | |
Member
AKaholic #: 157962 Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Either the 2nd or 3rd level of hell. It's too hot to tell.
Posts: 175
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#35 |
Member
AKaholic #: 166234 Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Seattle
Posts: 31
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I wonder what would be a fair price for nib an early 104ur without a donut?
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