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Old 02-27-2018, 04:36 AM   #71
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^You forgot to mention the S&W sling mount is inferior too.^

I think someone from BARF.com or M4 forums has decided to grace us with trolling.

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Old 02-27-2018, 01:19 PM   #72
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^
I'm honestly just trying to be helpful.
The irony is on the m4 forums guys talk about ras47s and c39s the way you guys talk about m&p sports.

Guess it doesn't matter for punching paper though.
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Old 02-27-2018, 02:01 PM   #73
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If you have one that works great, but in my mind justifying the Smith & Wesson over a Colt is like justifying an ras47 over an arsenal.
Nobody is trying to say the Sport II is better than a Colt.
That being said, as long as one remembers Sport II's are hobby rifles, they should have minimum issues. 99 percent of owners will only punch paper with them and that rifle is fine for that.
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Old 02-27-2018, 05:37 PM   #74
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After spending a bunch of money to upgrade your Smith & Wesson, you will probably have spent more money than it cost to buy a colt and you still have a rifle that is inferior to a Colt.
You can get a Smith m&p15 sport 2 configured the same as a Colt Le6920 for 250 dollars less. In most cases the Colt will be about 300 more. I'm not saying the Smith is better by any means because I know that it isnt. What I am saying though, is that it works and works well. If a person is interested in a M&P they probably can't afford a Colt or just dont want to commit that much money. There is absolutely nothing wrong with using a Smith M&P 15 Sport 2 for having fun and self defense, it will work. If you were buying a rifle to parade to war or mag dump mag after mag for extensive periods of time, hell no dont even think about a Smith.

Look I own both rifles. The Colt is a better rifle for sure, but I also enjoy the Smith because I don't care how it's treated. I can also blast away without fear something bad is going to happen to it and the finish is nicer. In my opinion the best factory built budget AR15 is the Ruger and Smith... hands down.

If a man could only have one rifle and simply couldn't afford the Colt right now, then yes I would reccomend that the person save up for a Colt. I would recommend that option vs building all day because Colts hold or go up in value. A build for the cost of a factory new Colt, equal or better quality, will always be worth less than the Colt. I would never recommend anyone to do that.
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Old 02-27-2018, 07:49 PM   #75
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No disrespect implied but this is the message I am seeing from the forum.

If one is buying an AK one should never buy inferior rifles, it's a thought to be scoffed at.
However
If one is buying an AR it is acceptable to buy an inferior rifle to save a few hundred bucks.


I personally have a very bad taste in my mouth from S&W, they screwed me, and did not honor their warranty. Their "gunsmiths" were a joke. I regretted every dollar I gave them. They tried to tell me having deformations in the barrels rifling is normal( I'm guessing they didn't even look at the barrel because even an idiot would be able to see the problem) They replaced the entire upper on my gun but did not replace the barrel when I sent it in for the barrel to be replaced under warranty. I've seen so many issues over the years with them that I can't in good heart suggest buying one. I ended up spending about 700-800 bucks on it( at the time it was a good deal), then for the few months of me owning it, it was not even in my possession because I had to ship it to s&w which took forever. Then the "gunsmiths" went full retard, sent it back with a new upper and completely fucked barrel. When I called them about it they " stood behind their work" but said that I should probably send it back again after finally getting it back from the first warranty trip. Spent months out of my possession. I could go on, but I'll spare the monotony.

I've seen issues with Colt's too, but the Colt's have mainly only had cosmetic issues, not functional ones. I've never seen a Colt completely bind up from having an out of spec upper either.


That is my experience in regards to the subject, people can take it or leave it, and that's all I have to say. We can agree to disagree, but I will never in good heart suggest to a friend or family member to buy one soft S&Ws shit products.
I also had a S&W pistol with a deformation in the barrel, however they did replace that for me for about 75$.

It's funny because a few months ago there was a guy on an m4 forum who had a C39 that was beating itself apart. I explained in detail the problems with his rifle, and then I suggested buying actual communist made ak.
They also called me a troll.

Last edited by 6920; 02-27-2018 at 08:17 PM.
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Old 02-27-2018, 10:07 PM   #76
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250$ is only 1-3 range trips worth of ammo.

If someone can't save up an extra 200$, they should probably reevaluate if they should even spend money on a rifle.
There is a lot more than just the bcg that has a problem, the sports have had a plethora of notable aspects to their builds being shitty.
Just a few aspects of the S&w that are inferior
-bolt
-bcg
-fcg
-receiver extension
-receiver extension staking
-castle nut staking
-barrel
-furniture
-buffer spring
- gas block alignment
- gas ports
- chamber

That's just off the top of my head

For those thinking of buying...

Colt's are dirt cheap right now. I honestly can't understand why guys are justifying buying crap tier rifles when you could save up an extra days worth of earnings and buy a completely Superior rifle that will last a lifetime.

If you have one that works great, but in my mind justifying the Smith & Wesson over a Colt is like justifying an ras47 over an arsenal.

6920, you seem pretty knowledgeable and you’re here so it saves me a trip over to arfcom LOL.

Just curious, if someone wanted a more “mid range” AR with a midlength gas system and a free floated handguard, what would you recommend? Say a budget of around $1200 max?

I’ve seen some M&P 15 Tactical models that fit the requirememts but I’m guessing you probably wouldn’t recommend them?
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Old 02-27-2018, 10:24 PM   #77
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6920, you seem pretty knowledgeable and you’re here so it saves me a trip over to arfcom LOL.

Just curious, if someone wanted a more “mid range” AR with a midlength gas system and a free floated handguard, what would you recommend? Say a budget of around $1200 max?

I’ve seen some M&P 15 Tactical models that fit the requirememts but I’m guessing you probably wouldn’t recommend them?


This, very highly regarded in the AR world.
The people who work here will customize your order and work with you too.

I would rate on par with the Colt

http://sionicsweaponsystems.com/stor...ol-ssk-12.html
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Old 02-28-2018, 01:23 AM   #78
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6920, you seem pretty knowledgeable and you’re here so it saves me a trip over to arfcom LOL.

Just curious, if someone wanted a more “mid range” AR with a midlength gas system and a free floated handguard, what would you recommend? Say a budget of around $1200 max?

I’ve seen some M&P 15 Tactical models that fit the requirememts but I’m guessing you probably wouldn’t recommend them?

Springfield saint can be a good option for you as well.
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Old 03-01-2018, 02:09 PM   #79
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The Armalite Def 15, The Eagle Armalite MFT, and the Windham mentioned are also good alternatives that can sometime be found in sales below $500.00. I now have three AR rifles - two PSA and one Armalite Eagle MFT rear stock model. The Armalite Eagle has a heavy barrel and I prefer that type of barrel. The Armalite Eagle that I have is the only carbine length gas system I own, in a rifle type AR. Just picked up a PSA 10.5 inch pistol upper and it has a carbine length gas system. And Yes, it is now mounted on a AR Pistol Lower.
That said, for the money, one can pick up a Ruger 556 basic rifle thru Sports Man's Guide for under $500 and make payments over 4 months on it. I don't have large amounts of money to throw around needlessly, and I imagine that neither do most average people, but even I can afford a budget pick up to acquire and stash away or wring out on the range.
The next thing is make a move to acquire one of these - I am, and if you don't I will.
The Ruger is the way to go with its CHF barrel, and it includes rear sight!
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Old 03-01-2018, 02:11 PM   #80
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6920, you seem pretty knowledgeable and you’re here so it saves me a trip over to arfcom LOL.

Just curious, if someone wanted a more “mid range” AR with a midlength gas system and a free floated handguard, what would you recommend? Say a budget of around $1200 max?

I’ve seen some M&P 15 Tactical models that fit the requirememts but I’m guessing you probably wouldn’t recommend them?
The Spikes mid length AR is a good deal, all Spikes products are good quality.
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Old 03-01-2018, 02:14 PM   #81
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Just curious, if someone wanted a more “mid range” AR with a midlength gas system and a free floated handguard, what would you recommend? Say a budget of around $1200 max?
I would go with a LWRC or a LaRue Tactical myself if spending around $1000.

#1: Only have ~$500-$550: Get a Ruger 556, S&W M&P15, Aero Precision AC-15...etc.

#2: Only have ~$700-750: Get a Colt 6920 or a Spikes Tactical ST-15 LE

#3: Only have ~$1000: Get a LWRC DI, LaRue Tactical UU AR15
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Old 03-03-2018, 07:34 PM   #82
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Have a Few questions after alot of the negative reviews on the last page:

1. Would an "Out of Spec- Upper" show itself early on, or just cause the BCG to bind up quicker when dirty in longer range sessions when compared to an In-Spec upper?

2. I Watched a YouTube video once of a guy cleaning his BCG, and when the BCG was held downward, the Bolt would loosely fall/shift into the outward position and vice versa it held upward.
That has NEVER happened with the SPORT BCG which I've handled.
It stays inward or outward unless pushed or pulled, never dictated by gravity!
Is that a problem??? Maybe 500rds through it

3. Good Quality "Mil-Spec" BCG options? The PSA ones are Very cheap compared to BCM and other good brands, but so cheap I'm not sure if I would trust it over the SPORT BCG... Any suggestions?

4. What is a better quality Buffer Spring? I was looking into a "Tubbs- Flatwire spring" once with are near noiseless, but they are Rifle Length and can either be too strong for Carbine, or need a few coils removed. Would prefer a diff option, once got a "Spike's- Electro Polished" Buffer spring for $10 from AIM for a build, most others look the same as the SPORT spring.
Got a Buffer kit on GB once and the Bronze Spring said "Made in China" on the packaging, now wondering if that Tube is worth damn as the buffer with it weighed only 2.4ozs, opposed to 2.9 like the stock SPORT buffer. One reason I got the Spikes Spring for that build.

The Buffer Spring was listed as inferior on the last page of this thread amongst nearly everything else, so the reason I ask being a Buffer Spring is a Cheap/simple upgrade.

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Old 03-03-2018, 08:08 PM   #83
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colts are not magical. Seen plenty of them go down at the range. Not sure if it was any more or less than any other brand.

Save your money for ammo. AR's are so generic. If anything ever goes wrong with yours you, can replace it.

build your own, then you can pick and choose what components you'd like. In my years with dealing with em i'd never seen a buffer tube, spring, carrier stock or any of those things go wrong. Most of the failures were bolt or FCG related. Get a good BCG and FCG you're probably fine for the rest of eternity. If you plan to shoot thousands of rounds or do competition shooting you could invest in a better barrel. The rest of the gun is pretty much bullet proof.
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Old 03-03-2018, 08:33 PM   #84
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As per my questions of upgrades above ^^^

Are "AIM Surplus" manufactured *Mil-Spec BCGs* of high quality?

This one has a Nitride finish, same as the 1/8 5R barrel in this SPORT, and the description sounds top notch for ONLY $89 bucks!!!

Just do not want to skimp out when upgrading from the SPORT AR style BCG.

They have more also, soe out of stock but this one caught my eye.

https://www.aimsurplus.com/product.a...h=Bolt+carrier

OR "Spikes" for $40 more

https://www.aimsurplus.com/product.a...h=Bolt+carrier

Any suggestions?

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Old 03-03-2018, 08:36 PM   #85
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As per my questions of upgrades above ^^^

Are "AIM Surplus" manufactured *Mil-Spec BCGs* of high quality?

This one has a Nitride finish, same as the 1/8 5R barrel in this SPORT, and the description sounds top notch for ONLY $89 bucks!!!

Just do not want to skimp out when upgrading from the SPORT AR style BCG.

They have more also, soe out of stock but this one caught my eye.

https://www.aimsurplus.com/product.a...h=Bolt+carrier

Any suggestions?
Toolcraft BCG for the win.
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Old 03-03-2018, 09:37 PM   #86
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Toolcraft BCG for the win.
I emailed Toolcraft and showed them a spec list of a BCM (Bravo Company USA) BCG and asked them to co parenting as much as they could as it is kind of vague on their distributors sites.

The specs on BCM's BCG sounds GREAT, so wondering if Tool Craft being nearly half price, if it lacks any important treatment (alot of the gas key things with the BCM caught my eye).

Yes, Tool Craft offer a Lifetime warranty, but an AR out of commission to get replacements would suck. Although I'm sure BCM costs 150ish due to their name also. Although they do go a little beyond according to their spec list and check each Bolt, along with other things.

Have you looked at their track record VS other Companies, or just have one and like it?

Just curious
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Old 03-03-2018, 09:54 PM   #87
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Toolcraft BCG for the win.
Did some research, apparently ToolCraft makes the BCGs for our mil!

The only thing is, they do not make the bolts and no one knows who does.

If I got one, would it be safe to use my SPORT Bolt, or atleast until I could get the Bolt that came with the BCG headspaced, if not just use it anyway?

I also heard their are different quality ones as they are a machining company, are you referring to the Nitrided Carrier?
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Old 03-04-2018, 12:11 AM   #88
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Have a Few questions after alot of the negative reviews on the last page:

1. Would an "Out of Spec- Upper" show itself early on, or just cause the BCG to bind up quicker when dirty in longer range sessions when compared to an In-Spec upper?

2. I Watched a YouTube video once of a guy cleaning his BCG, and when the BCG was held downward, the Bolt would loosely fall/shift into the outward position and vice versa it held upward.
That has NEVER happened with the SPORT BCG which I've handled.
It stays inward or outward unless pushed or pulled, never dictated by gravity!
Is that a problem??? Maybe 500rds through it

3. Good Quality "Mil-Spec" BCG options? The PSA ones are Very cheap compared to BCM and other good brands, but so cheap I'm not sure if I would trust it over the SPORT BCG... Any suggestions?

4. What is a better quality Buffer Spring? I was looking into a "Tubbs- Flatwire spring" once with are near noiseless, but they are Rifle Length and can either be too strong for Carbine, or need a few coils removed. Would prefer a diff option, once got a "Spike's- Electro Polished" Buffer spring for $10 from AIM for a build, most others look the same as the SPORT spring.
Got a Buffer kit on GB once and the Bronze Spring said "Made in China" on the packaging, now wondering if that Tube is worth damn as the buffer with it weighed only 2.4ozs, opposed to 2.9 like the stock SPORT buffer. One reason I got the Spikes Spring for that build.

The Buffer Spring was listed as inferior on the last page of this thread amongst nearly everything else, so the reason I ask being a Buffer Spring is a Cheap/simple upgrade.
oh jeez

Only "out of spec upper" I've seen didn't fit on any lower because the holes were off, if it's "binding" maybe you need to lube it??

A regular AR bolt isn't supposed to move under gravity because of the piston rings so your MP bolt is fine

Your MP SPORT BCG is fine, plenty of people have zero problem with AIM or PSA bolt carriers, I like Toolcraft for cheaper ones though

"Better" buffer spring has never crossed my mind, if yours is a carbine stock then the spring should be 38-40 coils and around 11 1/2", rifle is more like 42-44 and 12 1/2", if you haven't had any cycling problems then again it's likely OK
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Old 03-04-2018, 02:19 AM   #89
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oh jeez

Only "out of spec upper" I've seen didn't fit on any lower because the holes were off, if it's "binding" maybe you need to lube it??

A regular AR bolt isn't supposed to move under gravity because of the piston rings so your MP bolt is fine

Your MP SPORT BCG is fine, plenty of people have zero problem with AIM or PSA bolt carriers, I like Toolcraft for cheaper ones though

"Better" buffer spring has never crossed my mind, if yours is a carbine stock then the spring should be 38-40 coils and around 11 1/2", rifle is more like 42-44 and 12 1/2", if you haven't had any cycling problems then again it's likely OK
Thanks for the info,

Everything about the Sport rifle was sounding great in this thread (as always) until the last page when people were talking about them failing left and right in classes and some talk about the uppers being out of spec and Carriers binding.

Should have quoted some of those posts so my post would have made more sense and not seem as random.

Researched ToolCraft and sounds as if they are top notch for the price, and they make replacement ones for the Military.

Although that model has a Bolt made made from 158 Carpenter Steel and is out of stock in most places and priced more being they sell out so quickly, which the disclaimer says in large letters. Lol. They are Very blunt about it.

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Old 03-04-2018, 05:17 AM   #90
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Researched ToolCraft and sounds as if they are top notch for the price, and they make replacement ones for the Military.
ToolCraft also makes BCG's for a bunch of companies.
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Old 03-04-2018, 05:52 AM   #91
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toolcraft is THE go to bolt for many of us in the AR world. They're rock solid and an amazing price as they manufacture more BCG's than anyone else on the planet. I like the ones from WCarmory and Right to Bear.... both companies use great bolts and they just WORK.
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Old 03-04-2018, 06:18 AM   #92
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toolcraft is THE go to bolt for many of us in the AR world. They're rock solid and an amazing price as they manufacture more BCG's than anyone else on the planet. I like the ones from WCarmory and Right to Bear.... both companies use great bolts and they just WORK.
I fully agree with WR. Yes, I have many toolcrafts, its what I use for my builds now. I prefer NMB coated but the nitrated finishes are fine. You can spend $200+ on these so called high end Fail Zero, JPs, DD bullshit bolts. In the end your gun will not shoot any better or be worth any more. Buy a S&W spend the extra money on mags/ammo and PRACTICE.

All these fancy doo dads advertised as the latest and greatest things for guns do one thing only, lighten your wallet. Its all about marketing and selling you shit you do not need.

One of best sources for bolt carriers and other stuff.

http://www.monmouthreloading.com/pro...ar15/ar15-bcg/
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Old 03-04-2018, 06:37 AM   #93
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I have a couple of the Nitride TC bolts from Monmouth.... good bolts. Have one in my AR pistol that I took to the range this weekend.
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Old 03-30-2018, 03:10 AM   #94
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What cracks me up is half the motherfuckers commenting about shitty parts do nothing but shoot paper in between soccer practice and making dinner to keep the peace. Who gives zero fucks who MPI tested what? You only need it to shoot 7.5 yards down your tri-level mass produced home. As long as it goes boom (unless you wanna impress the local coffee and cars club), who cares what name is etched on the side.

A lot nut hug WASR’s with the shitty fit and finish - because they are cheap and broke. But if an AR doesn’t etch Colt, DD, LaRue or another boutique AR it’s junk. I run them all and don’t care - if it ejects a round out of the chamber, it doesn’t discriminate.

I love this site for the few with true historical knowledge. The rest are too caught up on some go to war shit and piss with the toilet seat down - to not upset their 250lb woman.

Nobody cares about your boutique AR build, cobbled together from forum reviews and coupons. Not all of us are broke and pinching a penny. People just want to know if it goes “Boom” outside of your covered, lifetime membership shooting range club - that you short changed Johnny and Sally’s JV uniforms to pay for.
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Old 03-30-2018, 05:24 AM   #95
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What cracks me up is half the motherfuckers commenting about shitty parts do nothing but shoot paper in between soccer practice and making dinner to keep the peace. Who gives zero fucks who MPI tested what? You only need it to shoot 7.5 yards down your tri-level mass produced home. As long as it goes boom (unless you wanna impress the local coffee and cars club), who cares what name is etched on the side.

A lot nut hug WASR’s with the shitty fit and finish - because they are cheap and broke. But if an AR doesn’t etch Colt, DD, LaRue or another boutique AR it’s junk. I run them all and don’t care - if it ejects a round out of the chamber, it doesn’t discriminate.

I love this site for the few with true historical knowledge. The rest are too caught up on some go to war shit and piss with the toilet seat down - to not upset their 250lb woman.

Nobody cares about your boutique AR build, cobbled together from forum reviews and coupons. Not all of us are broke and pinching a penny. People just want to know if it goes “Boom” outside of your covered, lifetime membership shooting range club - that you short changed Johnny and Sally’s JV uniforms to pay for.
Go home, it’s 3 in the morning, your drunk, and making a fool of yourself.
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Old 04-28-2018, 03:05 AM   #96
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New CS Buffer Spring Debacle (Damage Industries VS JP Tuned w/extra power):

I put an H buffer in my (Gen 1) M&P Sport awhile back being they are overgassed and come with CAR buffers to eat a wide variety of ammo... It also has a semi-Auto BCG rather than a FA weight BCG.

Recently bought a "Damage Industries Buffer Spring" as it was listed as "Enhanced", yet the enhancement is Longer life/Less Twangy attributes being Chrome Silicon, NOT extra powered whatsoever, just a taaad larger in diameter and is said to prevent Bolt Bounce.
It actually feels weaker than my factory spring when charging it, but that may just be due to me heavily wiping it with EWL (being the DI spring is prone to rusting, annnnnd it makes charging much smoother)...

I haven't fired the rifle yet, but I just ordered something online and I added a "JP- Tuned Buffer Spring" onto my order to get a $10 off discount and chose that as I've only heard good things about them Vs Damage Industries in comparison posts.

Update: I just read that the "JP Tuned Buffer Spring" is the equivalent of a "Sprinco Blue" power wise!!!

I am about to start fine tuning my M&P Sport but only want to go enough above the factory overgassing to get some benefits of doing so, yet not go too far with it and risk malfunctions with my fav 223 brand
(I consider PMC 55gr good ammo, but some consider it as crap it seems.)

So I'm wondering if my best bet is the current "H Buffer and Damage Industries (normal power) Buffer Spring" and go from there
OR
"H Buffer and JP Tuned Buffer Spring" (w/ 7% extra power) being the carbine has a semi-Auto BCG, and want it to still work with my PMC 223 55gr!

I know I'll have to test for myself but just wondering from those who may have used these Buffer Springs...
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Old 04-28-2018, 03:10 AM   #97
nighttrainnc
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Part 2/New Info

Just found out that the "JP Buffer Spring" has the same extra power as a "Springco- Blue spring"...

I also just read that MANY say their M&P SPORT works fine with weak 223 and 556 using the factory Spring, an FA BCG, and H2 buffer!

I have an FA "ToolCraft" BCG on standby but decided recently not to use it and only test buffers, the Damage Industries Spring was cheap & sounded good.

These are my Questions Now:

[b]What would be a better test.... Going from an H to an H2 with the normal weight DI brand Spring
Or using the H Buffer and a JP (7% extra power) Spring which is basically a Springco Blue???

Would the +7% power spring create more pressure than going from an H to H2 (like .7 ozs) or would the spring likely risk short stroking? Lots of people swear by these springs.

Would the factory CAR Buffer and JP spring be plausable instead of playing with buffers???
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Old 04-28-2018, 04:52 AM   #98
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If it fires a round when the trigger is pulled is all that matters. The M&P Sport will serve it's function as a self defense weapon and range toy. If a part does eventually break, AR parts are plentiful and cheap or you could use S&W's warranty... A Colt or even a $1000+/- AR isn't really necessary...
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Old 05-06-2018, 08:20 PM   #99
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The shit that's gonna break on an ar are bolt lugs shearing off, extractors breaking and on rare occasions, fire control groups may have their odd breakage. Buy a good bolt with a good extractor, a good mil-spec FCG and your done. Unless you get a bad round and it blows up it's highly unlikely anyone here will ever shoot out an AR. You're worrying about shit that is pointless to worry about. I've shot thousands of rounds through ARs, been on the fireing line with dozens of ARs at a time. If you have one that works it's probably going to keep on working forever. A chimp can build a decent AR. Quit worrying about stupid shit.
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