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Old Yesterday, 10:25 PM   #1856
1biggun
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http://www.chuckhawks.com/handgun_power_chart.htm
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Old Yesterday, 10:30 PM   #1857
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Doesn't matter what it is, all pistols suck at killing people. Stop giving the horrible home defense advice.
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Show me proof of home owners shooting more rounds than 6.

Bla bla bla your jumping out of bed in your power Ranger undies grabbing your big bad AK 74 and syrpluss ammo or is it the double the cost hornady and ding all this taticool BS in your mom's basement in against NC13 or what ever imaginary street gang is trying to steal your skate board.

Look up the FBI statics and see what bad guys get shot with. It's not no damn 5.45.

I have several pistols that have more energy and performance on a person than a 5.45 and the 44 mag is the smaller one.

A 357 mag is a proven people stopper. The notion you think it's not at home defense ranges just shows how little you know.
At one time it was the most powerful hand gun avaliable.
I have actusly seen a dead guy shot with a 357. He had a exit wound in his back you could stick a fist in.

He was shot in the street in a murder suicide in front of my girl friends house we were second on the scene.
The shooter blew half his head off after shooting a guy who stole his dope.

To put things in perspective the 5.45 has less of a energy Advantage over a 357 than a 223 has over a 5.45 .
Yet you dismiss small differances when it's against the 5.45.

Your notion that my 357 I sent going to stop a guy at 10 feet shows how little you know.
Lot of cops stopped a lot of bad bad men with them.

Yea yea you live in the hood were super drugs make people bullet proof.

Man get out and enjoy life .
And seriously if you live were you think armed drugged out gangs are coming to get you then move once you graduate or get your own home.





















Stop embarrassing yourself. These are just common videos on youtube... This stuff happens alll the time.

Last edited by Tankboy; Yesterday at 10:40 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 10:33 PM   #1858
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Just for a frame of reference, how many of you have been in a gun fight/actual self defense situation?
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Old Yesterday, 10:45 PM   #1859
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Just for a frame of reference, how many of you have been in a gun fight/actual self defense situation?
I haven't and I hope I won't ever have to be in one.
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Old Yesterday, 10:50 PM   #1860
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Your like a punk kid with a crap car that wants to drag race but from a rolling start.
Rolling starts usually always slow your time... but just sayin'.

...and street outlaws should just be based on grudge matches on track... the whole street part makes the show gay as fuck!
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Old Yesterday, 11:08 PM   #1861
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Stopped two guys stealing my car when I was still living at home with a Ithaca. They ran. No shots fired. Caught them red handed in the garage one in the car.

I stopped a assult at a camp ground years back. I was about 21 then. No shots fired I had a 9mm and a group of guys were attacking a 14 year old girl.
Looked like oit law bikers but with no bikes.
Later that year one guys face was front page for a kidnapping ,rape, stabing left a baby in a trunk.
I drew a weapon after getting blind sided by one guy and a second started kicking me on the ground.
Some real bad stuff . Had a broken nose two black eyes.
Every one ran good and bad guys.

I had a X husband of a woman i was seeing try to come in the house and made ot through the door once. No shots fired. I had a 357 and he left .

I had a murder suspect drive litteraly through a garage door in a el camino were he was hiding on a property I and a buddy were removing abandon cars from he stopped drew a 38 and realized I and three other cops my buddy and the land owner had him in in there sites. Cops should have shot him. He was tied to a well known biker gang and is serving life. For a homicide. There also
Was a passed out woman heroine OD in the garage were he came from . Scared the shit out of every one.

About 12 years ago a drugged out punk opened the door of my truck near bar time demanded my money despite I knew him by name. He hit me . I was unarmed I fought back coming down on him from stepping out of the truck I beat him down to the ground three times all while yelling for help and litteraly beating his face into the parking lot.
If I had had a gun or could have even reached my mag light I might have killed him . A very scary situation.
Truck rolled about 200 feet out the parking lot and across the street hit a dumpster. I got $5000 in restitution . I had a broken pinky beating on his head my hand is still goofed up. Had to quit racing motorcycles for a season . I took.a elbow to the face that night. Thank god I was able to get a upper hand. He had no weapon . Again scary shit.

Had a road rage nut follow me about 20 miles before I had enough and armed my self in my buddies drive way.
He changed his tune . Should have never been in that sitiation.


To many bar type altercations over a pool game or a woman.no guns just a lot of stupid on both sides.
A que stick got broke once.

Brandishing a fire arm is a very very serious decision.
Any of the incidents listed above could have landed me in jail or worse had I miscalculated my legal or control of a situation.
I don't even want to have to point a fire arm at any one .
The camp ground situation was some messed up shit.
I likely saved that girl and here dad . Those guts were rabid like dogs.

I suspect I have been in more crap than most but less than some and a couple maybe could have or should have been avoided.

I had one other incident were a so called carpet cleanin crew walked in my house when I was home sick.
They made a wrong address excuse before o put two and two together and left . .

I think I have been lucky in several of those situations.

Last edited by 1biggun; Yesterday at 11:25 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 11:12 PM   #1862
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Rolling starts usually always slow your time... but just sayin'.
Rolling starts are what guys want who have nothing but motor, no locker rear ,crap suspension wrong gearing and lousy tires.

It's the crap some punk would try to pull to race what was about a low 12 second Street car I used have to long ago.
Today 12 seconds is slow on the street.
Wish I still had the cars.
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Old Yesterday, 11:20 PM   #1863
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I haven't and I hope I won't ever have to be in one
Smartest thing you have said.
Always better to avoid trouble but be aware of things around you.
Avoid situations not your bussiness.
Stay away from those who do drugs.

Live long enough and sooner or later some bad person will come your way and try and take your stuff or hurt you.

Tough talk can get you killed.
Holding a gun on some one is not a good feeling. It's a pivitol point were the next second can affect the rest of your life.
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Old Yesterday, 11:27 PM   #1864
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Originally Posted by 1biggun View Post
Smartest thing you have said.
Always better to avoid trouble but be aware of things around you.
Avoid situations not your bussiness.
Stay away from those who do drugs.

Live long enough and sooner or later some bad person will come your way and try and take your stuff or hurt you.

Tough talk can get you killed.
Holding a gun on some one is not a good feeling. It's a pivitol point were the next second can affect the rest of your life.
The best guys to work with were always the ones who figured out ahead of time how to get the "bad guys" before they had a chance to use any weapons they might have, and not the ones figuring what the "field of fire" was going to be.
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Old Yesterday, 11:31 PM   #1865
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1biggun, you keep going on about basements, high school, pajamas, xbox, skateboards, bangers, etc... it sounds like you have some experience in the matter. Most here have outgrown such things, I recommend you do the same.

You've admitted several times that YOU failed to get acceptable accuracy out of 5.45. That's on you. Many here are getting acceptable accurate as RMiller has shown.

Also while reloading matters to YOU, it doesn't to everyone. I shoot brass 5.56, .308, 9mm, .38spc, etc... All that brass is just as disposable as my 5.45 steel cases. They all pile up in the woods just the same.

Nofreetime, we've all seen your charts and and gel block comparisons a dozen times. Can you put them up once more? that doesn't change the REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE many have had, putting more hits on target more quickly with a '74 than comparable 5.56 rifles.

The great thing about living in America is we have some 350 million firearms in civillian hands. That's 350 million choices, 350 million opinions, 350 million reasons, 350 million experiences. You like what you lime for your reasons and I like what I like for my reasons.

Let's all stop the in-fighting and apply this passion and energy we've all demonstrated over the last 50+ pages to restoring our rights. Let's fight the antigunners, not each other.
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Old Yesterday, 11:45 PM   #1866
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Originally Posted by chknfkr View Post
1biggun, you keep going on about basements, high school, pajamas, xbox, skateboards, bangers, etc... it sounds like you have some experience in the matter. Most here have outgrown such things, I recommend you do the same.

You've admitted several times that YOU failed to get acceptable accuracy out of 5.45. That's on you. Many here are getting acceptable accurate as RMiller has shown.

Also while reloading matters to YOU, it doesn't to everyone. I shoot brass 5.56, .308, 9mm, .38spc, etc... All that brass is just as disposable as my 5.45 steel cases. They all pile up in the woods just the same.

Nofreetime, we've all seen your charts and and gel block comparisons a dozen times. Can you put them up once more? that doesn't change the REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE many have had, putting more hits on target more quickly with a '74 than comparable 5.56 rifles.

The great thing about living in America is we have some 350 million firearms in civillian hands. That's 350 million choices, 350 million opinions, 350 million reasons, 350 million experiences. You like what you lime for your reasons and I like what I like for my reasons.

Let's all stop the in-fighting and apply this passion and energy we've all demonstrated over the last 50+ pages to restoring our rights. Let's fight the antigunners, not each other.
OK, but..

...on paper, and in theory, the 5.45 could be just as good as the 5.56, if, more loads, more rifles, and more reloading components were available.
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Old Today, 12:10 AM   #1867
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...on paper, and in theory, the 5.45 could be just as good as the 5.56, if, more loads, more rifles, and more reloading components were available.
It could be almost as good depending on the intended range.
5.56 still has more case capacity and speed for any given weight of bullet.

On the flip side it's possable the 5.45 might have a more consistant burn if all things were equal.
I never said I hated the round.

Not taking away from miller's great 200 yard group but it's still not great accuracy and it's his best ever.
How much of that group is the gun vs his skill with irons.
Is that the best it can do? Or us it much better and irons held him back.

Will that group handel all but the most precise shooting needs on a small target ? Sure .
But realize if I did that with optics on several of my rifles I'd be pissed. If I could do it with any rifle with irons id be happy.
What some call acceptable accuracy others call poor.
What will his rifle and ammo do off a bench with optics then you can start to determine what's man or gun.

I likely cant do that group with a 1/4" rifle with irons but I might be able to take his rifle with optics and do much better.
I'd be interested to see how he does with optics.
The AK presents special challange to get the best accuracy with a optic.

I hand loaded the 5.45 both on steel cased with pulled bullets and reformed 222 brass.
I got much bettet groups than any factory load .
As I recall just over 1" MOA in a tantal. About all that can be expected from steel cases or poor fitting brass in a military chamber.
What I believe I said was I could not gain any thing over a 223 with tripple the work and cost.

I have zero doubt a 3/4" moa 5.45 AK could be built if good brass existed and a tighter chamber was used.

I really wish a few guys could shoot the 223 weiger clone I have. If a 5.45 could match it's accuracy then you would have something.

223 has its limits as well it's why I moved away from it with a 6mm brx.

I'd love to see a 220 russian built . It would be really good and out run the 223. It would be expensive to shoot.

If I had the reamer and dies I build one in a heart beat.
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Old Today, 12:33 AM   #1868
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Nofreetime, we've all seen your charts and and gel block comparisons a dozen times. Can you put them up once more? that doesn't change the REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE many have had, putting more hits on target more quickly with a '74 than comparable 5.56 rifles.
What?
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