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Old 09-11-2018, 01:57 PM   #1
AllTen
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Default How Long Does Remington Have?

Remington and I go way back, but it doesn't look good for the brand, so I've been wondering how long they have left.

Most of what I've searched comes up w/articles around Mar/April/May like this.....

http://fortune.com/2018/03/29/reming...cy-guns-loans/

I know there's gotta be some folks around here who've got a business degree/background/savvy who've seen what looks like to me to be downward spiral to the end, but I don't know this stuff like some folks do; so is it going to come to a bad end soon, as opposed to very, very soon, and/or is there any way to save the company.

Asking, w/the idea in the back of my mind that Remington does make occasional production runs on 2 guns I've always liked (and in stock), but haven't pulled the trigger on, and wondering if I should get in a hurry.



BTW: I'm talking about 2 versions of the 870P.

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Old 09-11-2018, 02:47 PM   #2
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Default My family has always been...

a Remington family. "Cool" guns were not a thing in my family growing up, just hunting guns.

When I was about 14 (more than half my life ago) I was unloading my Remington 700 after climbing down from a deer stand. This model required you to disengage the safety to work the bolt. When I moved the safety to fire, the rifle fired. I was always taught muzzle discipline, so the muzzle was pointed safely at the ground. However, my father and grandfather chewed my butt and refused to hear that I did not touch the trigger. After being chewed out for the entire ride back home, my grandfather decided to once again demonstrate to me how to safely handle a firearm (my rifle, but this time unloaded). As he flipped the safety off to work the bolt (no finger near the trigger), the rifle dry fired. My father and grandfather stood there in disbelief, questioning whether or not the rifle just "clicked." I stood there, a young, ignorant youth, complaining that that was what I had been trying to say for the last two hours. My father took the rifle to a gunsmith and had the problem repaired. At the time, there was no media information surrounding Remington and unsafe guns.

Fast-forward about twenty years. I moved home after spending 8 years in the Army and multiple combat tours. I had since moved on to Savage rifles. My father still hunted with a Remington 700. After hunting one evening, he went to unload his rifle (not the same rifle I had at 14), and it fired just by touching the bolt. By this time, there had been some media information about Remington having faulty guns. I told my father to contact them and see if they will fix his gun. He did, notifying them of his issue, and of the issue I had many years earlier. Remington's response was something along the lines of "Well, it is not under warranty."

I sold every Remington firearm I had, including 870's, and refused to ever buy anything from them again. Since then, I have seen Remington's quality get worse and worse and worse. It would be shame for a legend like them to go out of business, but, frankly, I don't give a damn.
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Old 09-11-2018, 03:08 PM   #3
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Everything you've said about not fixing defects/flaws, and getting an attitude when you contact them to fix your guns has got to play a big part of why they're going out of business.

I don't miss the folks who took over Remington and ran it into the ground, I feel nothing for them.

Remington in my opinion, should've addressed upgrading the safeties (including coming up w/a system for immobilizing BOTH the trigger and firing pin) of their guns a long time ago, so you've got a perfect right to respond as you folks have.



Remington is going to pay the price, it's seems to me to be a matter of time (so my question of how long)............................................. .......but before they do, I'm trying to decide if I want to acquire the 870P w/Walnut furniture and the "corncob" fore end, in either the parkerized or blued version, which will be my last homage to the brand.

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Old 09-11-2018, 08:57 PM   #4
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I find it sad that a great old American firearm company may disappear. I hate the assholes that caused it. Always hunted and shot skeet with a 20 gauge 870 and still own it. I'm 66 now and have shot and hunted since my 20s.
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Old 09-12-2018, 07:25 AM   #5
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Old "tactical" shotguns with wooden furniture are definitely awesome. I would go with parkerized if it were me.
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Old 09-12-2018, 07:43 AM   #6
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Remington isn't going anywhere. What is more likely to happen is the company is sold and a new set of investors takes over.

The Remington firearms I see on the shelf today, to include firearms I've purchased myself are poor quality in my estimation. While I am not a Remington historian, the firearms I've seen from Remington I would consider quality reach back a few decades at least. I'm not sure when things went down hill for them, but I can tell you the rifles I've seen from the '60s and '70s were very good firearms. The ones I have from the modern era? They go bang, but get used about as much as a syphilis ridden skank.
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Old 09-12-2018, 09:24 AM   #7
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Remington isn't going anywhere. What is more likely to happen is the company is sold and a new set of investors takes over.

The Remington firearms I see on the shelf today, to include firearms I've purchased myself are poor quality in my estimation. While I am not a Remington historian, the firearms I've seen from Remington I would consider quality reach back a few decades at least. I'm not sure when things went down hill for them, but I can tell you the rifles I've seen from the '60s and '70s were very good firearms. The ones I have from the modern era? They go bang, but get used about as much as a syphilis ridden skank.
Agree 100% Friend has worked at a large gun store since the 70s. Biggest change over the years he states is Remington quality (esp shotguns), Mossberg and S&W. For years they were bullet proof and never came back to the shop. Not so anymore. Automation and foreign components the culprit. All about making money at the expense of quality. I'm not a big fan of the "Proudly Made In America" Mossbergs assembled in Eagle Pass, Texas, of Mexican and Chinese parts, but Remington is really in the shitter for quality as compared to the glory days. Still dream of finding that old Wingmaster at a reasonable price at my LGSs. The old American Mossbergs from the 70s and 80s and early 90s can be had for $150-175 around here. Not so much with the old Remingtons because people know a good thing when they own it and rarely sell them off. S&W and Ruger still make quality handguns in America. Let's hope this continues. Neither company will return to the "gunsmith" days of the incredibly manufactured steel semi autos because technology demands plastic, high capacity and rapid production.
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Old 09-12-2018, 09:52 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by nhm90 View Post
Remington isn't going anywhere. What is more likely to happen is the company is sold and a new set of investors takes over.

The Remington firearms I see on the shelf today, to include firearms I've purchased myself are poor quality in my estimation. While I am not a Remington historian, the firearms I've seen from Remington I would consider quality reach back a few decades at least. I'm not sure when things went down hill for them, but I can tell you the rifles I've seen from the '60s and '70s were very good firearms. The ones I have from the modern era? They go bang, but get used about as much as a syphilis ridden skank.
I bought an R1 this year and it is flawless in fit and function. Might be an exception, but I can't find a damn thing wrong with it. Don't paint with a broad brush.
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Old 09-12-2018, 10:19 AM   #9
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My .02 is In line with nhm90. Another group of investors will take over.
Remington had their glory days.

I am 40 and have been hunting since 12. I have very fond memories of the 760 Gamemaster .270 my dad let me use for deer. My father used a beautiful 700 in 6mm.
For birds there was almost always a 20 or 12ga 870 in our hands.

Personally, if I were to buy a Remi it would be an old one.
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Old 09-12-2018, 01:31 PM   #10
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Like Winchester, Remington has failed to diversify. Their handgun line has been received less than enthusiastically. And like Winchester, they made such a great product that last forever making buying a new long gun unnecessary. I can't count how many sons and grandsons are using Dad's/Grand Dad's Remington or Winchester
deer rifle or shotgun. Hopefully they pull through it. I come from the CT. River Valley where America's gun industry started. Pretty much gone except S&W which is doing fine. I drive past the deserted Colt building every day on my way to work. It's good to see a full parking lot at S&W 20 minutes up I-91 in Springfield. Colt made massive profits during the Viet Nam War. That place buzzed 24/7. They neglected their civilian market not seeing the gravy train of government contracts would one day dry up. One thing is for sure, Obama was the spark that reignited what's left of the industry. Like Colt and Winchester, the Remington brand name will live on as a trademark for new investors. It'll never be the same but the gun industry has always been that way. Difference now is the quality level of the brand name is rarely maintained.
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Old 09-12-2018, 02:27 PM   #11
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I bought a black synthetic 870 express a few months ago for $254. I wanted a gun to use duck hunting that I didn’t have to worry about babying or anything. The ejector is crap in the new ones and is MIM, so a quick upgrade to a steel one from Midway and you’re ready to rock and roll. I wouldn’t replace it until it starts giving you problems, which mine didn’t until around 200-250 rounds. The finish will rust but I had mine camo dipped so that took care of that. It’s not near as nice or smooth as my much older Remington shotguns, but I bought it for one single purpose and that was to duck hunt and beat the piss out of.
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Old 09-12-2018, 04:51 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coats View Post
My .02 is In line with nhm90. Another group of investors will take over.
Remington had their glory days.

I am 40 and have been hunting since 12. I have very fond memories of the 760 Gamemaster .270 my dad let me use for deer. My father used a beautiful 700 in 6mm.
For birds there was almost always a 20 or 12ga 870 in our hands.

Personally, if I were to buy a Remi it would be an old one.
Totally agree.
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Old 09-12-2018, 05:37 PM   #13
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My first gun was a Remington 41 Targetmaster my uncle gave me when was 9. My first shotgun, an 870 20 gauge my dad bought me, when the. 22 wasn't enough anymore. Great memories, still have them both, and am not going to part with them.

Hate to see them go, always bad for firearms in the U.S. when you lose a big one, but Marlin, Colt, Winchester, they have all been "gone" for a long time, and to be fair, some good new ones, like Henry, have taken their place.

The absolute coolest thing about Remington though, is their founder's name "Eliphalet" You know he got some shit over that as a kid.

Yes I know it is Biblical, son of David and all, but what were his parents thinking at the time? It does look cool seeing it imprinted on some of the old gun barrels though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliphalet_Remington

I am sure as stated above, the name will live on, like Colt and Winchester. After all it is not the same company now it was under old Eliphalet either.
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Old 09-12-2018, 05:46 PM   #14
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I have 4 of the older Remington Nylon 66 .22 rifles including one NIB Apache Black with the Satin Chrome finish, they will be handed down to my kids.

Wish they still made them... damn near indestructible and would run forever.
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Old 09-12-2018, 10:08 PM   #15
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I bought an R1 this year and it is flawless in fit and function. Might be an exception, but I can't find a damn thing wrong with it. Don't paint with a broad brush.
....me too. I bought 2 R1 Enhanced 1911s last year and they are VERY nice. Especially for the price
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Old 09-12-2018, 10:39 PM   #16
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The only Remington's I own are two 870 Wingmaster's. One a 12 gauge (I put a 18.5" barrel and mag extension on it), and one a 16 gauge. Both are late 60's vintage and are excellent. I'll never buy a new one. When I wanted a new 870, I bought a Hawk 982 instead with way better quality, and was much cheaper to boot.
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Old 09-12-2018, 11:01 PM   #17
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Remington has sucked since at least 2010. My 870 needs a better extractor
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Old 09-13-2018, 10:12 AM   #18
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This is the new/old stock WM that I was lucky to get some time ago that replaced the hole in my heart I had from selling my first WM as a kid. I've got the Versa Max which I'm glad to say has been behaving, but nothing in my stable feels like this "Oldie but Goodie" when I hold it in my hands; and while I do..........it makes me think back.

Cut down barrel, Ruger/S&W front sight and patridge so it doesn't mess w/the VR, Scattergun Tech rear ghost ring, ext. tube blued to match the gun, and the rest of the gun a "blast from the past".






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Old 09-13-2018, 12:36 PM   #19
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Buy the older models from GB dealers who are trading in police issued shotguns. I have had a great experience doing just that. Buy a few extra for less than 200 bucks each...pass them on. Either my kids or their kids will still be enjoying them. Built to last...
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Old 09-13-2018, 05:07 PM   #20
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Remington has sucked since at least 2010. My 870 needs a better extractor
And here ya go. I bought a few of these and they fixed the issue.

https://volquartsen.com/departments/...igurations/960
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Old 09-13-2018, 09:40 PM   #21
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My first gun was a Remington 41 Targetmaster my uncle gave me when was 9. My first shotgun, an 870 20 gauge my dad bought me, when the. 22 wasn't enough anymore. Great memories, still have them both, and am not going to part with them.

Hate to see them go, always bad for firearms in the U.S. when you lose a big one, but Marlin, Colt, Winchester, they have all been "gone" for a long time, and to be fair, some good new ones, like Henry, have taken their place.

The absolute coolest thing about Remington though, is their founder's name "Eliphalet" You know he got some shit over that as a kid.

Yes I know it is Biblical, son of David and all, but what were his parents thinking at the time? It does look cool seeing it imprinted on some of the old gun barrels though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliphalet_Remington

I am sure as stated above, the name will live on, like Colt and Winchester. After all it is not the same company now it was under old Eliphalet either.
Henry is another "brand name" resurrected by some investors. Henry was a New Haven company that gave the Union Army one of its advantages in the Civil War. The "new" Henry does make a quality product and that's a good thing.
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Old 09-13-2018, 10:15 PM   #22
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The internet makes it seem that all Remington firearms suck. They do not. I have a Remington 700 5R that shoots like a dream and is a great example of a new Remington firearm. The problem with Remington is that they aren’t keeping up with what the consumers are wanting to buy.
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Old 09-14-2018, 12:28 AM   #23
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The problem with Remington is that they aren’t keeping up with what the consumers are wanting to buy.
So they are excellent, they just aren't making what the people want? Uhhhh....OK.
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Old 09-14-2018, 08:21 PM   #24
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So they are excellent, they just aren't making what the people want? Uhhhh....OK.
I never said that they were excellent. You made that up. Let me explain a little more so people like you can understand. People regurgitate things they read on the internet all of the time. They come across like they have personal experiences with what they are speaking about. Sometimes they do and just as many times they do not. I do not discount people’s real experiences whether they mirror my own or are completely the opposite.

What I meant by my statement is that they still put out good products. Their rifles still shoot well. Some really well like mine and everyone else that I know that has a 5R like me. Remington is just behind the times with the latest trends that surface. Right now rifles like the tikka ctr, tikka tac a1, Bergera hmr series, and ruger precision rifles are what are selling. Just a few months ago Remington finally hit the market with a tactical chassis rifle but the damn thing has a key mod rail. Remington has competition that offers better value for the money.

Comprende hombre
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Old 09-15-2018, 08:14 PM   #25
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Guns made by them from the 1950s -1980s ,new stuff hard pass....this is where we are with most
firearms now made.
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Old 09-15-2018, 10:51 PM   #26
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My Remington 700 in .308 that I bought new about three years ago, shoots well (better than me!) and I have no complaints about the quality. However, I hated when I read that Cerberus took them over and saw the handwriting on the wall.
Investment capital firms want a return on their investments, and think with their MBAs instead of listening to their customers. Their MBA formulas might work with other products, but not with something so visceral as a rifle or shotgun.

I look forward to passing my Remington 700 to my grandson, but I won't shed a tear parting with it. I cannot say the same for my CZ. My grandson may have to pry that one out of my cold dead fingers.
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Old 09-16-2018, 01:57 AM   #27
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I bought a new 1187P for work a few years ago (less than 10 years) and it is a fine weapon. Even feeds the all-plastic shotshells. Also purchased a couple 870P’s and they’re good guns. I just stay away from the cheaper models.
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Old 09-16-2018, 01:58 PM   #28
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I bought a new 1187P for work a few years ago (less than 10 years) and it is a fine weapon. Even feeds the all-plastic shotshells. Also purchased a couple 870P’s and they’re good guns. I just stay away from the cheaper models.

This link comes along w/a pic of a polished blue 870P w/walnut furniture, from a run circa 2010 if I'm correct.

The same/similar gun is for sale now, and I'm inclined now to get this gun as a de facto working man's unofficial Wingmaster as opposed to a current WM.

Also in this link is a reference to a discussion of the production methods for the 870P, and if there's something inaccurate about that description somebody please chime in; but I've already got an 870P, and one more w/the walnut furniture in polished blue, would be a nice end statement for me.



https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=219312

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Old 09-18-2018, 05:41 AM   #29
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I don’t know anything about currently manufactured Wingmasters.

I looked it up, I bought my my walnut & parkerized 870P from Bud’s back in 2011 for $525. I had to pay sales tax and FFL fee on top of that but I wanted it because it was close to identical to the shotgun my agency issued to me back in 1999 (to replace my issued Winchester Model 12). I purchased another 870P the previous year from a LGS (parkerized with black furniture). My 1187P was also parkerized with black furniture.

Back when I was a Firearms Instructor we were told the same thing (as on the link) about the Remington police shotgun assembly line. I don’t hunt so I really don’t have any use for any other type of shotgun anyway.
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Old 09-18-2018, 07:43 PM   #30
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I bought a couple of new Remington shotguns in the last couple of months after avoiding the brand for years, based on what I have been reading on the internet.
My recent experience with mine, nice finish on the metal parts, beautiful wood, smooth, flawless function.
I'm happy with mine.
(One is a high polish blue 870 Police Magnum)
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Old 09-18-2018, 08:52 PM   #31
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I have a Tac-14 that I will be adding a stock to (all NFA rules apply). The finish is absolute shit compared to the older Police Magnums that I used to have. The finish is absolute shit compared to the rusted fence around my property. If you breathe on it wrong, or even look at it intensely, it will freckle up. After I have it engraved, my FFL is going to duracoat it.

If it wasn't for the OEM "For Law Enforcement Use Only" marked metal top-folding stocks, I would not have bought the gun. With that said, it operates as intended, with no malfunctions.
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Old 09-19-2018, 04:10 AM   #32
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... If it wasn't for the OEM "For Law Enforcement Use Only" marked metal top-folding stocks, I would not have bought the gun. With that said, it operates as intended, with no malfunctions.
I don’t know of any Federal law that prohibits any law-abiding citizen from owning/possessing accessories that are marked “For Law Enfocement Use Only”. In fact, I don’t know why they mark them that way.

I forgot to mention, the wood furniture of my 870P is a dull finish. I haven’t seen any wood as pretty as in AllTen’s pic since they took my Winchester away. (Years later I was able to purchase a Winchester M-12 just like mine that was issued to an Academy classmate so I’m happy.)

I like LE shotguns so in addition to my Remingtons and Winchester, I have a Mossberg 590, FN SLP, and Benelli M4.
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Old 09-19-2018, 07:55 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Libertarian Sheepdog View Post
I have a Tac-14 that I will be adding a stock to (all NFA rules apply). The finish is absolute shit compared to the older Police Magnums that I used to have. The finish is absolute shit compared to the rusted fence around my property. If you breathe on it wrong, or even look at it intensely, it will freckle up. After I have it engraved, my FFL is going to duracoat it.

If it wasn't for the OEM "For Law Enforcement Use Only" marked metal top-folding stocks, I would not have bought the gun. With that said, it operates as intended, with no malfunctions.
Whatever Remington is finishing guns with these days is absolute trash. I work at a gun store a few days a month to help them out and the Remington weapons, especially 870s, are rusting in the boxes these days.
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Old 09-19-2018, 08:59 AM   #34
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1989 870 magnum

The cylinder choke barrel was shot out. It would actually have fallen within what is referred to as a NEGATIVE choke.

So, when I bought the gun (for $150 cash at a yard sale), I refinished the gun because the blueing was mostly about gone. It wasn't an expensive collector item, and since the barrel was pretty much shot out, I reamed it out to accept screw in chokes.

I admit that I like my old Winchester 1300 speed pumps better, the old 870 has been a work horse that still has a lot of life left in it.

I don't think the Remington name is going anywhere. But I admit that I like their shotgun hulls and their brass is still good for reloading too. I have only had 2 Remington guns in my lifetime, but I wouldn't want to guess how many Remington shells and bullets that I have bought in that time.
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Old 09-19-2018, 02:50 PM   #35
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Whatever Remington is finishing guns with these days is absolute trash. I work at a gun store a few days a month to help them out and the Remington weapons, especially 870s, are rusting in the boxes these days.
There's a "one man outfit" who has a reputation for bluing your gun in any number of styles, as good as, or better than the factory. I did quite a bit of research on him, and then talked w/him over the phone about 2 yrs. ago about bluing one of my shotguns.

What impressed me was that he talked me out of it, after I described the condition of the gun, and it was good advice so I'll do it at a later date.

Few folks have the integrity to cut themselves out of a sale to do you right.

So when it's time to do the qun, I'll send it to him as the pricing also seems right.

Here's a link to videos from "Scottie's Gunworks"................



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ez3cD5gs0gk



One of the things I discussed w/Scottie over the phone when I talked to him was the factory finish, and his response was that a factory finish, completing all the steps, should last.

I guess the question is what's being done/not being done to late model Remington's in the bluing process so they rust so quickly assuming the weapons have been stored correctly.

My WM which I uploaded to this post had sat in a warehouse somewhere for years, and I was on "pins and needles" at the thought of getting a "rustbucket" while I was waiting on shipping.

Last edited by AllTen; 09-19-2018 at 07:44 PM.
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