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Old 10-11-2017, 06:09 PM   #1
wormraper
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Default weird mag fitment issues

I'm having some weird fitment issues with my romanian mags. I have 2 WASRs so far and an assortment of mags. to break it down

3 PMAGs (came with the gun + one sand one I just got for next to nothing
15 Tapco smooth sides
12 of the Yugo Bolt hold open ones from Apex (the new stock, not surplus
13 romanian mags I got from two forum members (6 from one, 7 from the other)
20 romanian surplus I got from Arms of America


now here's the funky part. I had a some MILD fitment issues with some of the Yugos where the top of the locking lug was hitting the cross rivet EVER so slightly. easy fix, sand the top of the lug and they slid right in..


now, the 13 Romanian mags from the members here fit fine (lots of clearance for the lug and the rivet), but they require a bit of force to get the mag catch to release... easy peasy, just some thumb pressure, but that rear tang ramp that presses up against the mag catch is a bit snug....

HOWEVER, the 20 romanian mags I just got in from Arms of America are having a few more problems. about 12 of the 20 mags (maybe 11) won't lock in ALL the way. What happens is that the mag catch won't fully reseat and gets stuck half way up the mag tang's "ramp" .. .the rest will snick into place just fine, but you can tell the mag catch is scraping it as it goes by. (same issue as the 13 I got from the other members)

I'm curious what the hell is causing 15 of the 33 romanian mags i have to fit without a problem and the other 12 not want to fit? (I mean, they'll technically FIT, it's just that the mag release/catch won't fully go to the "snap" position and gets stuck about 3/4 of the way up the ramp) That particular release issue doesn't happen with the tapco, the Pmags, OR the Yugos (the only problem with the yugo was the very top of the lug hitting the cross rivet, not the magazine release and the tang).... I saw a post by gunplumber that it probably needs the plate riveted to the receiver taken out and adjusted (but both guns do the SAME thing for the SAME mags), others say file down the tang on the mags, etc etc... more importantly which part is out of spec? Had it been one WASR that did this I would have immediately thought out of spec part on the gun, but BOTH wasrs have the exact same problem with the mags

Last edited by wormraper; 10-12-2017 at 03:53 AM.
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Old 10-11-2017, 09:31 PM   #2
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I'll just give a quickie; someone else will give a better response. What you describe with the Romanian mags is typical of what one would expect with the Croatian BHO's and the new-production-Yugo/Serbian BHO's. I would say it is non-typical for milsurp Romanian mags.
With/if Century Arms International in the equation, ...........
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Old 10-11-2017, 09:42 PM   #3
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You need to first see if the top of the magazine feed lips are hitting the underneath side of the lower rail. Can you fit a piece of typing paper in between there? Make sure to push up on the magazine when looking at this. I do not want to say anything about filing the magazine latch yet. Do not use any bolt hold open magazine for any checking of the rifle.
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Old 10-11-2017, 09:44 PM   #4
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I'll just leave this here for you to read.

http://wasr-10.com/MagLatchFix
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Old 10-11-2017, 09:58 PM   #5
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The article ran out just when I think it was going to say something about filing the selector plate.
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Old 10-11-2017, 11:29 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slapshut View Post
You need to first see if the top of the magazine feed lips are hitting the underneath side of the lower rail. Can you fit a piece of typing paper in between there? Make sure to push up on the magazine when looking at this. I do not want to say anything about filing the magazine latch yet. Do not use any bolt hold open magazine for any checking of the rifle.
Ironically those are near flawless in them

and as for the feed lips. The feed lips still have room, you can fit a piece of paper between them maybe a second piece. it's sandwiching between the selector plate and the mag catch with no more room to give


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post
I'll just leave this here for you to read.

http://wasr-10.com/MagLatchFix


Quote:
Originally Posted by akno View Post
I'll just give a quickie; someone else will give a better response. What you describe with the Romanian mags is typical of what one would expect with the Croatian BHO's and the new-production-Yugo/Serbian BHO's. I would say it is non-typical for milsurp Romanian mags.
With/if Century Arms International in the equation, ...........
I read the article, but the only reason I hesitate is because they said surplus acting like this would usually have Polymer mags being near impossible to seat. Here the polymer mags AND the yugo ones go in like butter and no problems on the mag release releasing AT ALL, while all the romanians are tough to release (comparatively)

Last edited by wormraper; 10-11-2017 at 11:53 PM.
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Old 10-12-2017, 12:23 AM   #7
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one thing I forgot to mention. with the milsurp romanian mags. I can't release them at ALL if I'm gripping the mag itself (even the ones that snick in 100%). I have to just push the mag release button without touching the mag for it to release, otherwise it binds and won't release without a freaking hammer...this happens on BOTH WASRs as well as my buddy's wasr 10 that he bought the same week I got my two. all three 2017 wasrs

Last edited by wormraper; 10-12-2017 at 12:38 AM.
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Old 10-12-2017, 12:28 AM   #8
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Completely different build, but I found that the mag release on my WBP CG1 had a sharp edge. I didn’t make the clearance big, just to a small harbor freight keyhole file and knocked the edge off. After that, the figment issues I had with my Romanian surplus mags went away. Mag lockup is solid, but they release smoothly now. Before, I had the same issue you describe with having the mags stuck.
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Old 10-12-2017, 12:42 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Maxxsmart View Post
Completely different build, but I found that the mag release on my WBP CG1 had a sharp edge. I didn’t make the clearance big, just to a small harbor freight keyhole file and knocked the edge off. After that, the figment issues I had with my Romanian surplus mags went away. Mag lockup is solid, but they release smoothly now. Before, I had the same issue you describe with having the mags stuck.
sadly not the case here as it's happening on 3 wasrs (2 mine, 1 my buddy's) and half the romanian mags won't even lock all the way in as the mag catch lever can't can't fully go back to "zero" on the tang ramp (some go 3/4 of the way to full "snap in", others just barely have the mag catch lever catching the tang at all. it's like they're all different thicknesses on the locking tang ramp).... I checked that very thing and it's actually pretty darn smooth on the catch itself

the only thing I can THINK of is that the selector plate is too thick, which is kind out outside of my wheelhouse as it would require popping the rivets, taking off the plate, grinding it down, and then re-riveting down the selector plate again (and of course voiding my warranty in the process)...uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuggggg, I'm getting so frustrated I'm ready to just throw them on backpage or just stick with polymer mags as none of them give me a hitch

Last edited by wormraper; 10-12-2017 at 04:15 AM.
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Old 10-12-2017, 02:51 AM   #10
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Do you have a friend with a mak-90 [chinese]? If yes, try the milsurp Romanian mags in the mak-90. If they don't fit in the mak-90, then you've got some really oddball Romanian mags and this would suggest modifying the mags and definitely *not* modifying your gun. (This is kind of a safer approach than voiding warranty, it would seem.) More likely, they will work in the mak-90, but it's better to be safe than sorry...
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Old 10-12-2017, 02:56 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akno View Post
Do you have a friend with a mak-90 [chinese]? If yes, try the milsurp Romanian mags in the mak-90. If they don't fit in the mak-90, then you've got some really oddball Romanian mags and this would suggest modifying the mags and definitely *not* modifying your gun. (This is kind of a safer approach than voiding warranty, it would seem.) More likely, they will work in the mak-90, but it's better to be safe than sorry...
not at the moment, but I'll sniff around. I have a line on a SAR-1 to buy so if they fit in there I'll know. however i'd bet they fit in the Mak 90 due to the fact that i got romanian mags from THREE different sources (6 from a member on here, 7 from another member on here, and 20 from AoA).... each and every one of them have the problem of not wanting to release the mag easily, while the ones from AoA have the problem of that AND not wanting the mag release lever to fit over the locking tang.. I'm betting century f@cked something up. Just surprised that THREE brand new WASRs don't like the same mags, but like my Yugo/Serian new production BHO's and the Tapco/Pmag ones without a hitch. I would have figured if it was happening in one something got fubared, but THREE brand new rifles ???... I figured "hey, romanian gun, romanian mags, should be the best fit!... guess not (from what I could google in my limited time it SEEMS like it most likely is the selector stop plate being a hair thick and the romanian tangs being built thicker...got an IDEA what's wrong, just not sure HOW to fix it with my skills)

Last edited by wormraper; 10-12-2017 at 04:39 AM.
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Old 10-12-2017, 06:42 AM   #12
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So to recap, you have 63 mags, 12 of which don't fit right and they're all the same brand, and you're convinced the problem is with the gun itself and not the mags?
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Old 10-12-2017, 06:49 AM   #13
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Well all 33 of the Romanian ones don't work COMPLETELY. They all won't come out unless you don't touch the mag and ONLY press the mag release hard (if you put any angled pressure on them the mag catch won't disengage. ). 12 of the 33 won't lock the mag catch fully on the Tang and are the worst.....I forgot I had 3 of the Serbian/Zastava new production bho mags do the same thing but I got rid of them instead of modifying and chaulked it up to them being my first mags and having fitment issues like Croat ones.(which is why I have 12 instead of 15 of those). Most of those worked without problems and the 12 I have now are flawless plus all the pmags and tapco ones work without twitching

I got romanian ones from three different sources, an they ALL won't release from the mag well unless I put NO pressure on the mag itself and ONLY push in the mag catch lever to release them in free fall. the 12 that are the worst are from this latest batch and they won't allow the mag release lever to lock all the way to the back of the mag.. so it's not like out of 63 only 12 have any issues. 33 have issues, but still technically will WORK, the other 12 are just worse than the others

Last edited by wormraper; 10-12-2017 at 07:07 AM.
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Old 10-12-2017, 09:33 AM   #14
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Now that I think about it I had a new production WASR 10 that the mags were tight in. I got it used with two mags and the mags had been filed on to loosen them up. Most other mags did not fit. I unscrewed the muzzle nut to find the factory threads messed up where someone turned the brake with a wrench the wrong way. Yes, I normally look at the threads but did not on this one so there. The shop took the rifle back. I really wanted this one too. It had a poly stock set and the RAK trigger. There is not much bolt sticking on the new WASRS with the RAK trigger in them. With a magazine that fits, how tight is it ? Turn the rifle upside down and look under the magazine latch whe pressing the magazine . Can you see any air there ? How much up and down do you have? With this magazine check for magazine forwards and backwards movement of the magazine. Sometimes it makes it easier to remove a tight magazine when you move it forwards of backwards rather than pressing it up.
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Old 10-12-2017, 09:43 AM   #15
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well, with the BHO and pmag and Tapcos... they all fit, but they don't have almost ANY whiggle room. like you get a tenth of a mm movement front to back ,and no side to side (a teensy hair with the BHO, but not much. ... when the ones that fit super tight (romanian) ..there's like NO whiggle whatsoever. no air between the latch and the selector plate however you can see a little gap with the BHO ones.
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Old 10-12-2017, 09:51 AM   #16
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Look at your selector plate cut out. Is it clear cut all the way to the sides. I had one that the milled cut out was not centered under the latch.
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Old 10-12-2017, 09:54 AM   #17
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If a Tapco magazine fits usually anything else will. Mark those magazine and try them in other rifles.
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Old 10-12-2017, 10:05 AM   #18
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Quote:
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Look at your selector plate cut out. Is it clear cut all the way to the sides. I had one that the milled cut out was not centered under the latch.
it's cut all the way out to the trigger guard... the latch is more than centered under that... it's wider than the latch
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Old 10-12-2017, 10:15 AM   #19
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Are you sure this is a magazine latch issue and not a Romanian swollen top issue due to rust growing between the magazine body and the feed lip reinforcing plates?
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Old 10-12-2017, 10:23 AM   #20
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absolutely. these are in near mint condition, and there's a slight gap on the sides of the mag well when it goes in... you can see it actually bottoming out the back mag tang against the selector plate and the latch can't go back over the ramp.. literally no room

if you put the BHO yugo/serbian one up against the Romanian, the Romanian Tang is OBVIOUSLY thicker and has a steeper slope on the ramp
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Old 10-12-2017, 12:03 PM   #21
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I had this problem on a century m70ab2, I mistakenly removed material from the mag catch, the problem seemed to be made worse because of excessive fore to aft mag slop. I guess you could also say selector stop was too thick. Either way, the build was flawed. When mag was forward it would release. When mag was back it would bind. So after I had removed enough mag catch so all would release when gripping mag (and pulling mag toward catch), I had reduced bolt to cartridge contact to almost nothing. When I refer to bolt to cartridge contact I am assuming mag is as low as possible, not pushing up against the selector stop. I ended up replacing the mag catch and fitting it such that bolt contact was a hair over what I'd call minimum and 90% of surplus mags would release easily, the other 10 percent would bind just a tad. I was never really happy with the compromise so I brought her to a gun show and found her a new home. It functioned perfectly btw so I didn't feel bad dumping her off on to fudd.
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Old 10-12-2017, 12:08 PM   #22
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I think it might be tolerance stacking... a slightly thicker selector stop plate mixed with extra thick tangs.... here's an image to show you how extra thick the romanian tangs are... the right is the romanian, the left is the BHO... the tops of the tangs are lined up perfectly even for this shot




and Scotty, I'm just surprised it happens in THREE brand new WASRS, not just one... and your situation was one reason I didn't want to touch the mag release. I guess I've got to write Romanian mags off my list and be mag careful on these two AKs. If I can't dump them on backpage (I didn't file any of the mags) I'll just leave them in the bin for another more "tolerant" ak

guess I'll just grab another 20-25 of the Yugo/Zastava new production ones as they seem to work the best besides polymer (at least out of ones I've tried so far)
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Old 10-12-2017, 12:59 PM   #23
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Now, I'm fairly new to AK pattern rifles, but I'm a firm believer of cutting the thing that's easiest to replace. If you've got a bunch of mags that fit well, then, don't dick with the rifle and make those mags not fit, file down the magazines that don't fit. After all, you can make the magazine parts a bit slimmer, but you can't really add metal back to the rifle if you go too far.
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Old 10-12-2017, 04:54 PM   #24
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Well......now you know where to file...........................right?
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