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Old 06-18-2017, 12:41 PM   #1
Richardmofo
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Default Any deals on 3006?

I'm looking for some cheap 3006 to stock up on for my M1 garand. I know the days of dirt cheap surplus is over. Everywhere I can find Greek surplus goes for almost the same as new production ammo. I have an adjustable gas plug, so I can shoot commercial ammo as well. Are there any good deals on 3006 or am I shit out of luck?
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Old 06-18-2017, 01:38 PM   #2
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Look into the Prvi M2 type load for M1s.Think S&B has a M1 loading now as well. Or do what I do and reload my Greek HXP brass as I shot it.
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Old 06-18-2017, 04:05 PM   #3
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There was yesterday I got a 400 round case of S&B 30.06 from midway usa for .67 for shipped. Was a 1 day salw.
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Old 06-18-2017, 08:35 PM   #4
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The days of cheap 06 are long gone.
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Old 06-18-2017, 09:02 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillies View Post
There was yesterday I got a 400 round case of S&B 30.06 from midway usa for .67 for shipped. Was a 1 day salw.
Yep day late for the great deal M1 Garand ammo. If I weren't wasting money on my other bad habit right now I would have bought some of that.
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Old 06-19-2017, 01:03 AM   #6
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https://www.sportsmansguide.com/prod...bled+Deep+Link
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Old 06-19-2017, 03:15 PM   #7
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Don't know as that any of these are good deals, but it is what the CMP has.

Norwegian, on clips, in bandoleers https://estore.thecmp.org/Catalog/Item/4C3006AYR-288P .79 rd.

Greek HXP https://estore.thecmp.org/Catalog/Item/4C3006X211-180P .80 rd.

S&B Garand spec https://estore.thecmp.org/Catalog/Item/4C3006SBPP-120 $1.00 rd.

Also some .50-.70 rd. prices on Korean Surplus, S&B, PRVI and Wolf Military Classic in the "current ammo price" link at the top of the subforum.
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Last edited by Sigiloso; 06-19-2017 at 08:16 PM. Reason: Corrected price on Norwegian .30-06
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Old 06-19-2017, 06:17 PM   #8
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The Norwegian at CMP is $228 for 288rds. I get 79 cent/rd.
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Old 06-19-2017, 06:58 PM   #9
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$0.50 per round here:

https://www.wikiarms.com/group/30-06
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Old 06-19-2017, 07:11 PM   #10
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That is all wolf ammo.. Not garand food.

A vepr in .30-06 will eat it like a fat kid through candy.
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Old 06-19-2017, 08:16 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ammolab View Post
The Norwegian at CMP is $228 for 288rds. I get 79 cent/rd.
You're right, I got my numbers backwards when I divided.

Fixed.
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Old 06-19-2017, 08:20 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richardmofo View Post
I'm looking for some cheap 3006 to stock up on for my M1 garand. I know the days of dirt cheap surplus is over. Everywhere I can find Greek surplus goes for almost the same as new production ammo. I have an adjustable gas plug, so I can shoot commercial ammo as well. Are there any good deals on 3006 or am I shit out of luck?
Yes, you are SOL. There is no such thing as "cheap" 30-06 for the M1 rifle. You have to use ammo made for this rifle, not modern stuff, or you have to use a gas adjustment system so you don't blow out your Op Rod, etc.

I'm sure, if not already, people have told you to "reload."

CMP is still the best source for military surplus ammo for the 30-06.

You are in the WRONG forum to ask questions about the M1 Garand.

Join the CMP forums.
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Old 06-19-2017, 08:22 PM   #13
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HERE IS WHAT YOU NEED
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Old 06-19-2017, 08:24 PM   #14
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Or this.
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Old 06-19-2017, 08:50 PM   #15
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Reload. Promise it will be considerably cheaper.
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Old 06-20-2017, 01:44 AM   #16
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I'm glad you posted this thread because it just saved me some money. I have forever thought that the Garand was a very amazing looking rifle, and as iconic as it is... I have recently been thinking of buying one just to have.

When I saw this thread, I figured I'd take a peek because I only have a couple of boxes of rounds for my Savage 110 in .30-06 and with thoughts of a potential Garand purchase on my mind, I figured a case or two at a good price wouldn't be a bad idea.

Funny thing is, that although I've always thought they were cool, I've never researched the Garand rifle. Reading this thread has changed my mind as I was unaware that they don't run on just any ole .30-06 ammo. I will now be looking to throw my money away on something else, as I wouldn't want the hassle of having to source or reload specialty rounds for one rifle.

Good thread. Thanks.
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Old 06-20-2017, 01:44 PM   #17
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I need an adjustable gas plug for my M1. Will let me run whatever but using interchangeable apertures to vent excess gas out of the gas plug. I waited for months for the Prvi to become available again and scooped up a can when it did. I've not tried the S&B but the Prvi is generally better than the HXP and Danish I've shot. Hand loading for it is easy as well if you want to go that route but unless you sacrifice accuracy in exchange for using cheap surplus 147gr bullets it won't be much cheaper due to the large volume of powder in a charge.
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Old 06-20-2017, 02:41 PM   #18
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As others have said, reload. And avoid OTS ammo, unless it's labeled as being designed for M1s.

The reloading bit? No big drama for M1 loads. Just use the more "traditional" powders, ones which will achieve similar port pressures to military ammo. IMR-4064 is real good, as is IMR-4895. There are some suitable ball powders also.

As you search around for components, it will be a fine thing to remember that the rifle was built for ammo designated M1 ball, which uses a 175 grain boat-tail bullet. Encroachment of civilization(??) into areas near US military small arms firing ranges, and the seeking of bullets which would not travel as far as M1 ball's did, led to the development of M2 ball with its 150 grain bullet. M2 ball was not adopted until the late '30s, and was not as commonly used in M1 rifles during WW2 as 163 grain AP was. You have a wide range of bullet weights available to develop loads without damage to your op rod, or without the need for a Schuster plug. Just use a suitable powder.
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Old 06-20-2017, 06:53 PM   #19
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I've handloaded for the Garand since 1984. That's about 33 years.

CMP used to sell surplus M2 ammo.

The 1960's stuff was sold first and was purposely underloaded with Canadian powder for around 2600 fps.

Then 1972 M2 ammo was sold that was loaded with ball powder.

Many customers of CMP complained that this ammo was too hot.

CMP had H.P. White Labs test the ammo and it was within Garand specs.

The problem was CMP customers were used to the weaker 1960's ammo and many of their op rod springs were worn, and maybe some gas ports eroded.

The op rod spring shortens significantly after 2000 rounds and then the bolt really starts to hammer the rear of the receiver.

Later CMP contracted Federal to make new ammo.

The 150 grain FMJ ammo was developed to meet Garand specs by Federal.

Again CMP customers complained that this was too hot.

CMP specified the bullet, primer and powder used.

I broke down one round of it.

It had a Sierra 150 grain FMJ bullet, a commercial Federal 30-06 case, a CCI #34 primer and 48.7 grains of IMR-4895 powder.

The other ammo Federal was making for CMP was a match load.

It used an UNFIRED Lake City M72 case, a 168 grain Sierra Match King bullet, a CCI #34 primer and 46.5 grains of IMR-4895.

After complaints of the new 150 grain ammo, CMP requested a milder load from Federal.

Federal had no specs for the milder ammo and ended up using the UNFIRED Lake City M72 case, a 150 grain Sierra FMJ bullet, a CCI #34 primer and the same 46.5 grains of IMR-4895 powder used in the 168 grain match ammo.

A lot of people didn't like using full power ammo in their old Garands, but the ammo was loaded to Garand specs.

IMR-4895 is a bit more position sensitive than some other powders.

IMR-4064 seems like the best all around Garand powder.

W748 is a decent ball powder, especially with 150 grain bullets.

H4895 needs to be loaded hot to make enough gas to reliably cycle all Garands.

Varget can work very well, as long as it is not loaded to exceed the gas limits of the rifle.

Federal did the work for IMR-4895 powder.

Their loads reflect other Garand load data with IMR-4895.

IMR-4064 fills the case a bit better than IMR-4895.

My 4064 loads,

150 -155 grains - 49.0 grains IMR-4064

168 grains - 47.5 grains IMR-4064

175 grains - 47.0 grains IMR-4064

For W748,

150 - 155 grains - 49.0 grains W748

168 grains - 47.0 grains W748 (less than ideal case fill, but has velocity)(I have used slightly more without trouble)

Varget,

150 - 155 grains - 48.0 grains Varget (a bit on the mild side, but shoots well and gas is nearly topped out)

168 grains - 47.0 grains Varget (BEST GARAND LOAD EVER!!!)

Use CCI primers and avoid Federal cases.

Load to 3.30", except some 150 grain bullets load shorter.

Prvi 150 grain FMJ is M2 copy.

Prvi 168 grain bullet is troublesome to load due to short bearing area.

Prvi makes 175 grain M1 clone bullet.


The original 30-06 ammo used a 150 grain bullet at 2700 fps.

The M1 ammo came out before the Garand with a 175 grain bullet at 2700 fps, later reduced to 2640 fps.

Some National Guard units requested the 150 grain ammo for their ranges that couldn't handle the M1 ammo.

The M2 ammo used a 150 grain bullet at 2800 fps instead of 2700 fps.

The main reason M1 ammo was replaced by M2 ammo was due to the M1 ammo having increased recoil.

In 1939 the Garand gas system was changed and M2 ammo was standardized to replace M1 ammo.

"In 1940 the standard ball cartridge was the M2, which had been standardized for ground use by the Ordnance Committee on November 9, 1939 (approved January 12, 1940). At the same time the M1 Ball cartridge was reclassified as Limited Standard, except for use in aircraft machine guns by the U.S. Navy where it was still standard." The last loaded at Frankford was Lot 2161 (accepted 24 October, 1941). The lot consisted of 601,500 rounds. The M1 Ball was declared obsolete on 17 August 1944.”

I have Garand manuals from December 1939 to 1965 and none have windage specs for M1 ammo, but do have them for M2 ammo.

The 30-06 machine gun and bolt action rifle manuals have windage specs for both M1 and M2 ammo.

Original M72 match ammo used the 175 grain M1 bullet.

On the boxes the velocity is stated as the same as M1 ammo at 2640 fps, but when I chronographed it, it was all between 2570 and 2590 fps.

The 150 grain bullets do have lower recoil than the 168 grain bullets.

Not a big deal in the Garand.

The 168 grain bullets with 47.0 grains of Varget should always shoot well.

If not, the rifle needs work and it shouldn't be the ammo's fault.

For 155 grain match bullets, Sierra has two hollow points and one plastic tip bullet.

The older 155 hollow point design works best in the fast rifling twist rate in the Garand barrel.

The newer hollow point is more aerodynamic and is made for a super long barrel with slower rifling.

The plastic tip bullet is even longer.
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Old 06-20-2017, 10:25 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AK-104 View Post
I'm glad you posted this thread because it just saved me some money. I have forever thought that the Garand was a very amazing looking rifle, and as iconic as it is... I have recently been thinking of buying one just to have.

When I saw this thread, I figured I'd take a peek because I only have a couple of boxes of rounds for my Savage 110 in .30-06 and with thoughts of a potential Garand purchase on my mind, I figured a case or two at a good price wouldn't be a bad idea.

Funny thing is, that although I've always thought they were cool, I've never researched the Garand rifle. Reading this thread has changed my mind as I was unaware that they don't run on just any ole .30-06 ammo. I will now be looking to throw my money away on something else, as I wouldn't want the hassle of having to source or reload specialty rounds for one rifle.

Good thread. Thanks.

If it was me, I wouldn't let this thread dissuade me from owning a Garand. They are one of the coolest of the cool battle rifles, a piece of living history and a link to WWII. There is a reason Patton referred to it as "the greatest battle implement ever devised"

The idea of having to "source or reload specialty rounds" is not exactly as it may seem. For one, their is a wide range of off the shelf .30-06 that will work fine. Its about battering the op rod, and other parts, more than necessary, and there are lots of commercial loadings that don't do this.

Anything you use in a Garand, will also serve well in your Savage 110 as well(great rifles those, too)

On top of that, as Richardmofo mentioned in his OP, you can get an adjustable gas plug, that completely alleviates the problem, allowing you to use the complete range of .30-06 factory ammo.

Here is one $37:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/777...eel-parkerized

And here is a short blurb on the issue, from the CMP, the be all, end all of Garand info, sales and knowledge(if you want to learn more about the Garand, there is where to go.):

http://thecmp.org/training-tech/armo...mmercial-ammo/

Then there is always reloading, and I won't get into the weeds on that as allesennogwat has that covered pretty well. What I will say is, if you don't reload, you should consider it, even if you don't obtain a Garand.

I can't think of any other way, that will teach you as much about firearms, ballistics, and shooting in general, in as entertaining fashion, while enabling you to shoot more and/or save money(in the long run).

Owning and having used a Garand in high power competition, I can attest to their coolness. If you do decide to purchase one, you won't be disappointed in it. Amazing what the old gal can do at 600 yds., with open sights.
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Last edited by Sigiloso; 06-20-2017 at 11:39 PM.
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Old 06-22-2017, 10:48 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigiloso View Post
If it was me, I wouldn't let this thread dissuade me from owning a Garand. They are one of the coolest of the cool battle rifles, a piece of living history and a link to WWII. There is a reason Patton referred to it as "the greatest battle implement ever devised"

The idea of having to "source or reload specialty rounds" is not exactly as it may seem. For one, their is a wide range of off the shelf .30-06 that will work fine. Its about battering the op rod, and other parts, more than necessary, and there are lots of commercial loadings that don't do this.

Anything you use in a Garand, will also serve well in your Savage 110 as well(great rifles those, too)

On top of that, as Richardmofo mentioned in his OP, you can get an adjustable gas plug, that completely alleviates the problem, allowing you to use the complete range of .30-06 factory ammo.

Here is one $37:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/777...eel-parkerized

And here is a short blurb on the issue, from the CMP, the be all, end all of Garand info, sales and knowledge(if you want to learn more about the Garand, there is where to go.):

http://thecmp.org/training-tech/armo...mmercial-ammo/

Then there is always reloading, and I won't get into the weeds on that as allesennogwat has that covered pretty well. What I will say is, if you don't reload, you should consider it, even if you don't obtain a Garand.

I can't think of any other way, that will teach you as much about firearms, ballistics, and shooting in general, in as entertaining fashion, while enabling you to shoot more and/or save money(in the long run).

Owning and having used a Garand in high power competition, I can attest to their coolness. If you do decide to purchase one, you won't be disappointed in it. Amazing what the old gal can do at 600 yds., with open sights.
Thanks for the info Sig. I will likely do some more research on them, but in light of what you posted, the idea isn't off the table. I do think they look cool, I appreciate their historical significance, and I am a believer in the effectiveness of the .30-06 vs anything that walks in North America.
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Old 06-23-2017, 12:08 AM   #22
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You will not regret getting a Garand - I loved my Springfield so much, I went out and got a Harrington & Richardson as well. Yes, ammo isn't super cheap - but honestly it tends to be cheaper and much easier to acquire than most of my other mil-surp rifles from that era (Enfield, Mauser, K31). As others have mentioned, get a gas plug - I recommend Garand Gear's ported one: http://www.garandgear.com/ported-gas-plug.html
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Old 06-24-2017, 08:38 AM   #23
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http://www.sgammo.com/product/30-06-...and-ammo-pp347


Just saw this in an email this morning.

Pretty much the best deal going, under 70 cents per round, shipped, including the ammo can. (at least to my zip code, shipping might be more to yours)
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Old 06-25-2017, 11:04 AM   #24
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FYI, in my limited experience, if you're stockpiling for multiple rifles, HXP M2 may be oversized for some commercial bolt actions without reaming.
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Old 06-25-2017, 12:59 PM   #25
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QUOTE Ersatz FYI, in my limited experience, if you're stockpiling for multiple rifles, HXP M2 may be oversized for some commercial bolt actions without reaming.

Works fine in my Savage.
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Old 06-27-2017, 11:16 PM   #26
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Worked fine in my Winchester '95 too,

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Old 06-27-2017, 11:26 PM   #27
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I've seen at least two versions of Greek HXP 30-06 ammo.

Depending on year, one version has a few grains over 50 grains of ball powder and the other version has a couple of grains less than 50 grains of ball powder.

At some point, the powder changed.
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Old Yesterday, 12:13 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bravo lima View Post
QUOTE Ersatz FYI, in my limited experience, if you're stockpiling for multiple rifles, HXP M2 may be oversized for some commercial bolt actions without reaming.

Works fine in my Savage.
My Savage is the one that actually has trouble closing on a lot of HXP M2. I checked for every other problem the internet suggested before I broke out the calipers and compared commercial loads and surplus AP which closed with no problem. Not a huge issue, but I've since run into a few other people who discovered it in theirs, too
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Old Yesterday, 02:47 PM   #29
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I have 400 rounds of ojp Austrian mil surp 30-06 ammo with 1958 headstamps and marked from a 1995 re-pack inspection in the factory packaging on en-bloc clips I would let go for $280 plus actual UPS cost shipping.
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