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Old 05-17-2018, 08:52 PM   #1
AKSpray
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Default Kalinka Optics Mounts

Does anyone have any experience with the two mounts below from Kalinka?

https://kalinkaoptics.com/rifle-type...inny-rail.html

https://kalinkaoptics.com/rifle-type...ical-rail.html

I'm not really excited about either of these options but both the Midwest Industries and RS mounts have both failed to keep zero in "extreme" conditions for me. I'm running an ACOG TA50 with a Type 3 RM06 RMR on top on a Arsenal SAM7SF. I've tightened my AK-302 to the point of almost not being able to latch it fully and its still migrated backward and caused a zero shift. Both my brother and myself have had this same problem. We participated in a very physical 2 Man match at Tiger Valley Waco TX. Lots of over barriers, dropping to prone and bumps and scrapes to guns, mounts ect. I had two instances where the mount backed off and your completely lose zero. I had to throw the lever and index it back to the front of the side rail to get it to hit on target. For square range shooting RS mounts are fantastic they look great, mount well, and are extremely light.

In my experience when in adverse conditions time and time again they've failed me which brings me to the question above. It looks like the above mounts with more than just a friction fit which I believe is my problem.

I understand there's probably a lot of people who are going to post "They've never had a problem with there RS or MI mount". I get that but after multiple issues I've lost all confidence in this set up and am looking to go another route so those comments aren't of use to me but I do respect everyone's opinion if they feel that way.

Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance.
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Old 05-17-2018, 09:32 PM   #2
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There's nothing special in those two mounts that make them superior to MI or RS.
One of them looks like UTG copy.

It's possible for anything to fail, yes I've not had any of them fail (besides UTG mount losing tension).
If I was jumping out of moving vehicle or repelling from a cliff I'd dismount the optic anyway and not because of the mount itself or possible lose of zero.
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Old 05-18-2018, 10:38 AM   #3
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If I were concerned about RS mounts and wanted something different I would look at the NPZ mount above all others. As much as I love the RS and use many of them, NPZ in my mind is still the best mount, but heavier than RS

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Old 05-18-2018, 11:13 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AKSpray View Post
Does anyone have any experience with the two mounts below from Kalinka?

https://kalinkaoptics.com/rifle-type...inny-rail.html

https://kalinkaoptics.com/rifle-type...ical-rail.html

I'm not really excited about either of these options but both the Midwest Industries and RS mounts have both failed to keep zero in "extreme" conditions for me. I'm running an ACOG TA50 with a Type 3 RM06 RMR on top on a Arsenal SAM7SF. I've tightened my AK-302 to the point of almost not being able to latch it fully and its still migrated backward and caused a zero shift. Both my brother and myself have had this same problem. We participated in a very physical 2 Man match at Tiger Valley Waco TX. Lots of over barriers, dropping to prone and bumps and scrapes to guns, mounts ect. I had two instances where the mount backed off and your completely lose zero. I had to throw the lever and index it back to the front of the side rail to get it to hit on target. For square range shooting RS mounts are fantastic they look great, mount well, and are extremely light.

In my experience when in adverse conditions time and time again they've failed me which brings me to the question above. It looks like the above mounts with more than just a friction fit which I believe is my problem.

I understand there's probably a lot of people who are going to post "They've never had a problem with there RS or MI mount". I get that but after multiple issues I've lost all confidence in this set up and am looking to go another route so those comments aren't of use to me but I do respect everyone's opinion if they feel that way.

Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance.

do you mind telling us how they both failed? just curious. I did some extreme testing with Horse's mount (not MI mount) and it held zero.


and Zen is right about the NPZ side mount. Its built like a brick shithouse, but its a little heavier. I run mine on a Vepr in 308.
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Old 05-18-2018, 11:13 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TX-Zen View Post
If I were concerned about RS mounts and wanted something different I would look at the NPZ mount above all others. As much as I love the RS and use many of them, NPZ in my mind is still the best mount, but heavier than RS

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Old 05-18-2018, 02:37 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voron View Post
do you mind telling us how they both failed? just curious. I did some extreme testing with Horse's mount (not MI mount) and it held zero.
Going over a barrier I bumped the mount and caused it to migrate backward and lose zero. Also I was crawling through a tunnel with my rifle and had the same problem. You can replicate this problem with a rubber mallet by lightly tapping the mount backward while latched.

If Iím doing something wrong with the installation Iíd like to know. Iíve tightened the mount without being over tightened. I like the mount and have spend over $400 on RS mounts would rather not have to sell them and start over.
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Old 05-18-2018, 03:14 PM   #7
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Is it possible that you exceeded the capabilities of the side rail mounting system since each and every iteration including RS and MI, depends on clamp friction to maintain position on the rail ?
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Old 05-18-2018, 06:01 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldsalt View Post
Is it possible that you exceeded the capabilities of the side rail mounting system since each and every iteration including RS and MI, depends on clamp friction to maintain position on the rail ?
You completely summed up my point. Thatís why Iím looking for another option and thoughts or suggestions.
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Old 05-18-2018, 07:23 PM   #9
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Under normal conditions, good quality side mount is more then adequate for AK side rail.
However, the side mount/optic is designed to be remounted and return to zero. Russians usually remove their optics and re-attach when needed (that is why all of them come with belt pouches) and it is to persevere optic itself from extreme environment. It does not matter what top of the line optic you have on your rifle, if you don't take care of it.........well, glass is glass.
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Old 05-18-2018, 08:00 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voron View Post
AK in 22shit.

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Old 05-18-2018, 08:06 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AKSpray View Post
Going over a barrier I bumped the mount and caused it to migrate backward and lose zero. Also I was crawling through a tunnel with my rifle and had the same problem. You can replicate this problem with a rubber mallet by lightly tapping the mount backward while latched.

If Iím doing something wrong with the installation Iíd like to know. Iíve tightened the mount without being over tightened. I like the mount and have spend over $400 on RS mounts would rather not have to sell them and start over.
Not arguing with you but not sure on your comments...but assuming this is the exact cause I could see temporarily losing zero, but you should be able to remove and remount the entire RS and optic and it should seat in the same position it was zeroed. This is how the return to zero method works for a properly adjusted side mount

I get that you guys were in the heat of the moment and couldn't conduct specific tests but I am genuinely surprised to hear that tapping the mount backwards causes a complete loss of zero. Momentary loss maybe, but again removing and remounting should RTZ

Again, not arguing or contradicting what you say. It's just making me think something else is in play, like maybe the actual tension isn't right or something along those lines
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Old 05-19-2018, 12:00 PM   #12
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IMO, the top mount shown looks more like an SVD mount than an AK mount - the legs are very short & may not clear. Not my favorite style rail Clasp either.
The lower mount should work, the clasp is a better design for most AKs - Depending on which rail is on your receiver.
My problem with both of them - if they fit your rifle, is that I like to co-witness my iron sights, & neither seem to have enough height. I also think that the top picatiny rail scope attachment adds additional adjustment difficulty. I own one Russian side mount with built in 1" rings that I prefer to a trop rail attachment.
I went with a 4x24B ZENIT - BELOMO scope with built in legs to the mount section, which fits & locks up solid, with co-witness capability, lighted 400m Simonov Reticle..
www.saiga-12.com sells these. I found 2 other decent mounts on Ebay - NOW you must look for "7.62x39 rifle scope mount" because AK can't be mentioned there.
Keep shopping around. I don't use Kalinka unless I cant find something elsewhere, they are a bit pricey.
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Old 05-19-2018, 01:09 PM   #13
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Very interesting thread.

I think the OP’s point is that the side rail system does not have an inherent “removal stop” per-se. as such, it is possible to push it back off the side rail no matter how tight it it clamped. The NPZ has a cam lever than interfaces with some styles of side rail, but it is not a universal fit.

Im not sure there is any way to solve the OP’s unique situation. In USMC testing our AK-300 Modular Side Mount System was subjected to multiple SMAW launches which ended up breaking the ACOG used, but the mount retained zero. It was also subjected to blast forces and the pinned upper/lower combo also did not lose zero.

But they also didn’t encounter a rearward positive force. I’m intrigued by the OP’s issue.

What rifle were you using OP?
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Old 05-19-2018, 05:47 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazig View Post
IMO, the top mount shown looks more like an SVD mount than an AK mount - the legs are very short & may not clear. Not my favorite style rail Clasp either.
The lower mount should work, the clasp is a better design for most AKs - Depending on which rail is on your receiver.
My problem with both of them - if they fit your rifle, is that I like to co-witness my iron sights, & neither seem to have enough height. I also think that the top picatiny rail scope attachment adds additional adjustment difficulty. I own one Russian side mount with built in 1" rings that I prefer to a trop rail attachment.
I went with a 4x24B ZENIT - BELOMO scope with built in legs to the mount section, which fits & locks up solid, with co-witness capability, lighted 400m Simonov Reticle..
www.saiga-12.com sells these. I found 2 other decent mounts on Ebay - NOW you must look for "7.62x39 rifle scope mount" because AK can't be mentioned there.
Keep shopping around. I don't use Kalinka unless I cant find something elsewhere, they are a bit pricey.
The top mount is a copy of BP02 and will fit an AK. It's not SVD based at all.
The bottom mount is a VOMZ and is basically a POS with a crap locking mechanism. I wouldn't recommend either mount, both are inferior to RS or NPZ designs

4x24 does not cowitness either...what are you cowitnessing with? That comment does not make any sense
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Old 05-20-2018, 10:36 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by TX-Zen View Post

4x24 does not cowitness either...what are you cowitnessing with? That comment does not make any sense

I can (co-witness) see & use my stock AK iron sights by looking beneath the 4x24B Zenit Belomo scope, recently purchased from www.saiga-12.com - It sits high enough.

Hope that makes better sense.
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Old 05-21-2018, 11:16 AM   #16
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hm.

can OP please take some quick pix of the mounted optic on the rifle and a close up of the attachment of the side mount?
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Old 05-21-2018, 02:24 PM   #17
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OP, i think you have reached limitations of clamp friction.
In this situation it is important to understand that making it tighter will probably not solve your issues, and very likely result in you breaking something.

I had same issue on M77 with RS mounts, but mine was shifting back from regular shooting, and regardless of what i did it would not stop. Eventually i made it so tight that the clamp on the mount cracked through the side rail.
Was it rail? Was it mount? Or maybe both, i don't know. Point is that, limit of the clamp friction was reached.

Now i run with RS302 + TA44 on 104UR and 107UR. Also had 104FR with RS303+ PO4x17 for a good while. Everything on 104FR held solid for many thousandths of rounds and years of abuse. 104UR combo is holding up well too, it think it is at 600-is round count.
On 107UR there was a tiny shift back, about a millimeter wide after roughly 800 rounds.

What im trying to say is - it is normal for something like that to happen, and some cases will be more extreme than others. Your case is on the extreme end.
How to solve it? Eh good question... it is hard to say what is broken. Maybe there is something about your side rail, so regardless of what mount you put on it, it will all shift.

Try to clean it, maybe there are oils that are causing it.
Before you go on a $1000 mount searching quest, it maybe be cheaper to get a new side rail.
Try NPZ like Zen suggested, that thing is bulky though.

What i would do is get a file or dremel, and make tiny teeth on the side rail and on the mount clamp, specifically in the area where they meet. This way it wont be just surface friction dependent.
Or take a tiny piece of very fine sand paper, and place it in between the clamp and side rail. I have a feeling that either this or that would solve your issue.
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Old 05-21-2018, 04:29 PM   #18
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There is a mount that uses cutout in the middle of the rail to lock in place.
PK 01-V has it....I believe Kobra as well.

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Old 05-22-2018, 08:39 AM   #19
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Quote:
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There is a mount that uses cutout in the middle of the rail to lock in place.
PK 01-V has it....I believe Kobra as well.
Excellent point, PK01-V has a cam in the clamp mechanism that secures itself in the rail cutout and some versions of PK01-VS have this as well instead of the stop pin being at the back of the mount

That could work for OP but I think the NPZ mount will solve the problem. It has more gripping tension due to the compression / flex of the alloys used in the clamping mechanism, it's part of the design
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Old 05-22-2018, 08:40 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazig View Post
I can (co-witness) see & use my stock AK iron sights by looking beneath the 4x24B Zenit Belomo scope, recently purchased from www.saiga-12.com - It sits high enough.

Hope that makes better sense.
That's not cowitness, using it is incorrect terminology. Cowitness is when iron sights line up with a red dot / collimator
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Old 06-02-2018, 09:37 AM   #21
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Very interesting thread.

I think the OPís point is that the side rail system does not have an inherent ďremoval stopĒ per-se. as such, it is possible to push it back off the side rail no matter how tight it it clamped. The NPZ has a cam lever than interfaces with some styles of side rail, but it is not a universal fit.

Im not sure there is any way to solve the OPís unique situation. In USMC testing our AK-300 Modular Side Mount System was subjected to multiple SMAW launches which ended up breaking the ACOG used, but the mount retained zero. It was also subjected to blast forces and the pinned upper/lower combo also did not lose zero.

But they also didnít encounter a rearward positive force. Iím intrigued by the OPís issue.

What rifle were you using OP?

I'm running it on a SAM7SF and my brother is running his on a Romanian SAR-1. I'll get some pictures up tonight when I get home.
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