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Old 07-18-2017, 07:10 AM   #1
3xternal
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Default Great Product, Confused Company (my experience with Chaos)

As you will see in the replies, Chaos's owner took the time to read this review and address the issues therein.

If you read no further than the first sentence, know this: the AK-47 M-LOK Rail APOLLO 6.0 does *not* come with a lower handguard retainer *BUT* the Saiga 7.62 M-LOK Rail - AK APOLLO 6.0 does. This is not something you can discover by looking at the products, but it is mentioned in the Apollo 6.0 installation video and will have great bearing on this review (i.e. why I've given it 4 stars).

The rail itself is wonderfully machined. It is very light, sturdy, and applying the screws a smooth experience. When I first began to assemble it, I was concerned that it would end up being loose and floppy. However, once everything was tightened down, there is not a single budge to be had. I've not yet attached anything to it, so I cannot attest to that. My only lingering gripe is that the 1913 doesn't sit quite centered along my steel sightline, however, that might be something a file and additional fitting could fix.

In regards to the 4 stars and "confused company": my rifle is a DDI Zhukov and as I am transitioning out of the Zhukov, there is no lower handguard retainer (for those who don't know, part of the Zhukov installation requires you to dremel the LHGR off). Knowing this, I did some research and found that Carolina Shooter supply makes their own bolt-on LHGR and I ordered one. The Stamped Reciever Apollo 6.0 arrived before the LHGR and for fun I removed the Zhukov and began the install. I decided to see if Chaos had an install video on youtube, and sure enough, there was Evan installing it. Half way through the video, he mentions that the Saiga version ships with Chaos's own LHGR. I immediately recheck the website to verify this but there is no mention of it.

I call CSS in an attempt to cancel the order but it has already shipped. I explain the situation to "Hal", who says that CSS carries the Chaos product, and even he didn't know that the Saiga version had its own LHGR. He understood my situation and offered a full refund, even saying they would not bill me a restocking fee.

I quickly shift gears and get on the phone with Chaos to see if they will send me their LHGR. I know its a tiny piece of machined steel that could go into an envelope. I wait until the tiny window opens where support is available (10am to 3pm) and get Evan. I explain the situation to Evan (ironically Evan was the one who did the install video). He says that he just recently came into control of the website and would need to see about getting that sorted. At this point, having established that there is a problem with the website and that is has led me astray, I am really hoping Evan, in a fit of great customer service, would just mail me this half-dollar sized piece of metal, but no. Instead, Evan says he needs to check with Cam and will get back to me *today*.

I wait patiently until about an hour after customer service closes and then try to call Evan back. By this time, the automated phone system at Chaos informs me that customer service is now closed and I can leave a message. Mildly angered at Evan's lack of professionalism, I redial and select a different option in the phone system. I get Cam himself. I ask Cam if he spoke with Evan and Cam doesn't seem to know what I am talking about. I proceed to reiterate my situation. Cam patiently listens and then tells me I am the first person to ever have this problem. I'm not sure what purpose that statement is meant to serve. I told him that it could have been avoided if they would just update their website to tell people about the LHGR, but he shrugs this off, saying that that effort would be ill-spent on a once in 8 year occurrence like me. I can't say that belittling the customer's problems has ever won hearts and minds, but we need to move forward. Cam then tells me they can ship me the LHGR but I have to pay the shipping. So, after just telling me that Chaos can't be bothered to update the website to help inform customers about an important piece *required for the install of their product*, I am told it *is* worthy of me busting out my credit card to pay for shipping on a part I could/should have gotten for free. At this point I just want to get through it. Cam directs me over to someone who processes my card, places the order, and we end the call.

A week goes by and nothing comes. No confirmation email, no tracking number, no part. I check with the mailman each day and nothing but spam. I call Chaos customer service. No one answers. I redial and choose a number at random, other than "2" for customer service. Cam picks up. I explain that I don't have the part. Cam does some digging and discovers that the part never shipped, chalking it up to the fact that Chaos rarely ships this part alone. At this moment, I nearly throw my phone. Anyway, he says he will get it moving and if I do not have a tracking number by end of business the next day, to call him back. I say, "OK" and we hang up.

...you can guess what happens next...

By end of business the next day I have no tracking number. Again, I call customer service (end of business means way past 3pm, so customer service has already gone home). I choose the machine shop number and get some female, who puts me on hold to get Cam. 5 minutes goes by, no one picks up, and the system hangs up on me. I call back and thankfully, Cam himself answers. I tell him that I have no tracking number. He transfers me to *someone* (I can't imagine its customer service) who sounds a lot like customer service. This person asks for my address, to which I reply that I should be in the system. We go over the details and the part finally ships.

The part arrives and I finish building my Chaos Apollo 6.0. At the time of this writing, the website still does not say anything about the LHGR As you will see below, Cam assures me that these issues have been resolved. If you've made it this far, let that be a warning to you. If you need an LHGR, BUY THE SAIGA VERSION.

*edit: Ironically, this review is 2000+ characters too long for Chaos's website review system

Last edited by 3xternal; 07-18-2017 at 12:35 PM. Reason: more info to add, response from vendor.
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Old 07-18-2017, 10:28 AM   #2
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Wade,
First I take full responsibility for whatever happens at my company, I do apologize that you had a bad experience in this situation. I welcome and appreciate your feedback in this matter. In the case of the LHGR for the Saiga 7.62, we changed over our website photo's and the LHGR wasn't pictured. We have been providing those for free to our customers as a courtesy part, a $45 value and since they're not in our system it did cause confusion, sorry for that. Again thank you for your feedback and your business.
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Old 07-18-2017, 10:52 AM   #3
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The appropriate changes have been made to our website to address this issue and we will be having a company meeting to address providing better customer service, thank you again for bringing this issues to my attention and thank you for your business.
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Old 07-18-2017, 12:33 PM   #4
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Cam,

Thank you for taking my experience seriously and improving Chaos for future customers.
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Old 07-18-2017, 12:51 PM   #5
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Your welcome, and again thank you for your feedback and business.
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