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Old 03-08-2018, 01:45 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by nalioth View Post
For the umpteenth time, it's not a "permission slip".

it's a "notice of travel", and it's just that - a "notice".

You do not have to wait for it to be approved & returned ( they don't "approve" these forms - they just file them )

You do not have to carry an approved copy with you when you travel.

It can be submitted for the upcoming 12 months to cover all NFA-legal states.



I'm really not sure why some of you guys keep throwing this "permission slip' crap out in these conversations.
I think the "permission slip" refers to the actual Form 1 to cut the barrel.

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Old 03-08-2018, 01:53 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by ryanr256 View Post
I think the "permission slip" refers to the actual Form 1 to cut the barrel.
Context matters.

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Originally Posted by RMiller View Post
Not to mention, it can go across state lines with me as I travel, without a permission slip.
The form 1 isn't a "permission slip" for "crossing state lines". The member is referring to the "ATF Form 20 - 5320.20 Application to Transport NFA Firearms"
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Old 03-08-2018, 02:30 PM   #108
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Here is the language off of the Form 1:


state Movement: If the firearm identified in item 4 is a machinegun, short-barreled rifle, short-barreled shotgun, or destructive device, the registrant may be required by 18 U.S.C. § 922(a)(4) to obtain permission from ATF prior to any transportation in interstate or foreign commerce. ATF E-Form 5320.20 can be used to request this permission.

Yeah. The next state over (where I own a lot of land) is only two miles or so from my house, so, yeah, it would be a royal pain in the ass to have to ask permission to transport a SBR over there, even if done on an annual basis.

I just don't like the idea of having to let the nose of the federal gubment camel under my tent every time I make a move.
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Old 03-08-2018, 02:37 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by BigBlue&Goldie View Post
I've seen them all and they all look dumb.



I've been on the BATF list since I purchased my first firearm at 18yo......I'm not a paranoid person. I've also never felt the need to take an SBR with me out of state.



The wait is like 5mos right now. And that "brace" still looks gay.


For the record, I think all NFA laws are bullshit and a violation of our rights. I also don't want braces or bump stocks to be banned, even though I think they are the 2 douchiest firearm accessories made.

When you purchase a firearm, that my put you into a pool of 100 to 200 million other law abiding Americans. When you register under the NFA that puts you in a pool of what, at most a few hundred thousand other people?
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Old 03-08-2018, 02:40 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angryWaiter View Post
Here is the language off of the Form 1:


state Movement: If the firearm identified in item 4 is a machinegun, short-barreled rifle, short-barreled shotgun, or destructive device, the registrant may be required by 18 U.S.C. § 922(a)(4) to obtain permission from ATF prior to any transportation in interstate or foreign commerce. ATF E-Form 5320.20 can be used to request this permission.
Yeah. The next state over (where I own a lot of land) is only two miles or so from my house, so, yeah, it would be a royal pain in the ass to have to ask permission to transport a SBR over there, even if done on an annual basis.

I just don't like the idea of having to let the nose of the federal gubment camel under my tent every time I make a move.
You guys keep missing the very important word "commerce".


Not "going to do property maintenance"

Not "going to an out-of-state AK Files get-together to show off muh guns"
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Old 03-08-2018, 03:23 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by nalioth View Post
Context matters.



The form 1 isn't a "permission slip" for "crossing state lines". The member is referring to the "ATF Form 20 - 5320.20 Application to Transport NFA Firearms"
Yes, it does (emphasis added):

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For $70 and no government permission/tax I can have a very handy PDW that fits in my backpack, legally carried in my front seat with me loaded (as it meets the IL definition of pistol), and I can effectively use it.

Not to mention, it can go across state lines with me as I travel, without a permission slip.

Is the shockwave as comfortable as a stock? No.

But until laws change were I can add a stock to SLR106UR without a stamp, carry it loaded with me in my car, and travel freely with it, the SBR is irrelevant to me.
-Bob
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Old 03-08-2018, 03:29 PM   #112
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Yes, it does (emphasis added):
No, it is not. The form 1 is your "permission to own a non-sporting firearm" ( aka "an NFA weapon" ). It has nothing to do with traveling for personal reasons.

The "Form 20" is the "permission slip" being spoken about.

Without a NFA weapon ( the "tax" ), the form 20 isn't required.
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Old 03-08-2018, 04:01 PM   #113
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Oh yes, taking an SBR out of state is a breeze...

https://www.full30.com/video/0637b49...2c99bc59250259

Those who have gotten SBR and jumped through all the hoops will dig in their heels and beat their fist on the table to convince us they are right. Anything else will be an admission of not being right.

This is just my opinion, I hope I don't get banned for expressing it.

Last edited by Lukas; 03-08-2018 at 04:08 PM.
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Old 03-08-2018, 04:05 PM   #114
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Oh yes, taking an SBR out of state is a breeze...

https://www.full30.com/video/0637b49...2c99bc59250259
COMMERCE

Do you guys just not understand?
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Old 03-08-2018, 04:10 PM   #115
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Nails is right in this case. Traveling interstate with a SBR is a breeze. I submit my form 20 each year to cover the lower 48 and I travel freely across state lines. I don't even think twice about it.
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Old 03-08-2018, 04:17 PM   #116
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There are certain legal advantages that a braced pistol has over a SBR. As Rmiller pointed out, he can "carry" it loaded under his IL CCL. But as he stated, it is a comprimise. The brace isn't as comfortable as a proper stock.

I don't think either one makes the other irrelevant.
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Old 03-08-2018, 09:44 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by Lukas View Post
Oh yes, taking an SBR out of state is a breeze...

https://www.full30.com/video/0637b49...2c99bc59250259

Those who have gotten SBR and jumped through all the hoops will dig in their heels and beat their fist on the table to convince us they are right. Anything else will be an admission of not being right.

This is just my opinion, I hope I don't get banned for expressing it.

What a fucking pain in the ass. Fuck that. I’ve got better things to do than fill out a bunch of forms to expose myself to federal scrutiny just to put a buttstock on a Pistol. Not worth it.
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Old 03-08-2018, 11:01 PM   #118
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Lot's of misinformation in that video.

It really is as simple as sending off the form 20 once a year and going about your business.
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Old 03-09-2018, 12:37 AM   #119
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Lot's of misinformation in that video.
Indeed, there is.


. . . even on Full30, drama drives page views.

( and that videographer was not letting those views go to waste )
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Old 03-09-2018, 10:36 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by nalioth View Post
No, it is not. The form 1 is your "permission to own a non-sporting firearm" ( aka "an NFA weapon" ). It has nothing to do with traveling for personal reasons.

The "Form 20" is the "permission slip" being spoken about.

Without a NFA weapon ( the "tax" ), the form 20 isn't required.

Yes, and my point was that there are those in this thread referring to the Form 1 as permission.

Permission to create and permission to transport.

You've proven my point.

-Bob
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Old 03-09-2018, 01:10 PM   #121
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Yes, and my point was that there are those in this thread referring to the Form 1 as permission.

Permission to create and permission to transport.

You've proven my point.
I have?

The form 1 is "permission to manufacture an NFA weapon", and has nothing to do with transporting the weapon.

Once you manufacture the NFA weapon, it's yours to do with what is legal to do.

The form 20 is a "notification" form - you don't have to wait for it to be returned before you travel.

The only "permission slip" you need to carry is the form 1 ( or form 4 ) itself, but this won't keep you out of trouble if you go into a NFA-restricted state ( the form 20 won't either, but if you submit it far enough ahead of your travels with a NFA-restricted state listed on it, the batboys will let you know you can't go there )
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Old 03-10-2018, 12:11 AM   #122
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yeesh.

Has anyone contacted a barrel manufacturer to get us AKM profile straight grooved barrels. Everyone should be happy with that situation, build a krink with a stock, no tax stamp, no gimicky brace, no form 20. Cheap non rifle barrels for AKs would in my mind make SBR irrelevant
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Old 03-10-2018, 01:50 AM   #123
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^ Nah i’d rather have a proper ak with a brace, but the ability to attach a stock within seconds.
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Old 03-10-2018, 01:52 AM   #124
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^ Nah i’d rather have a proper ak with a brace, but the ability to attach a stock within seconds.
If you have that ability, why bother with a brace at all?
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Old 03-10-2018, 10:34 AM   #125
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If you have that ability, why bother with a brace at all?
Right now it would be illegal without the government's permission.

Should the government ever legislate us into outlaws, or if laws ever become irrelevant...
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Old 03-10-2018, 12:36 PM   #126
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Here is the interesting conclusion I get out of reading the entire series of posts - a lot of confusion and quite pointed comments on use of a Pistol "Brace". I have viewed and in fact seen with my own eyes pictures and video of major retail sellers and in Firearms News the most recent edition on the Krebbs AK Pistol of the braces being "shouldered" when fired. Guess we will see them in Club Fed soon? I am not here to argue about SBR nor the use of a brace. I don't have a brace on any firearm, although I do have a AR Pistol with just a rear extension. I am going to wrap my extension in a Pool Type small diameter float more than likely as a cheek rest. In video from major sellers and manufacturers they mention that occasional use of the brace being shouldered has been deemed by the ATF as not verboten. There the confusion lies. There are a zillion people buying AR pistols - with a wide range of braces. It seems that there is a clear explanation given thru the ATF to the sellers and major retailers, not that the thing can be shouldered all the time but on occasion.
This is my take on the matter as a largely out side observer.
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Old 03-10-2018, 12:45 PM   #127
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If you have that ability, why bother with a brace at all?
Right now it would be illegal without the government's permission.

Should the government ever legislate us into outlaws, or if laws ever become irrelevant...
. . . and again, should that hypothetical situation occur, why bother with a brace at all?
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Old 03-10-2018, 01:27 PM   #128
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. . . and again, should that hypothetical situation occur, why bother with a brace at all?
I don't use them, but better accuracy at the range.

I draw my line at registration, won't do it.
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Old 03-10-2018, 06:38 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by Disburse-Now View Post
Here is the interesting conclusion I get out of reading the entire series of posts - a lot of confusion and quite pointed comments on use of a Pistol "Brace". I have viewed and in fact seen with my own eyes pictures and video of major retail sellers and in Firearms News the most recent edition on the Krebbs AK Pistol of the braces being "shouldered" when fired. Guess we will see them in Club Fed soon? I am not here to argue about SBR nor the use of a brace. I don't have a brace on any firearm, although I do have a AR Pistol with just a rear extension. I am going to wrap my extension in a Pool Type small diameter float more than likely as a cheek rest. In video from major sellers and manufacturers they mention that occasional use of the brace being shouldered has been deemed by the ATF as not verboten. There the confusion lies. There are a zillion people buying AR pistols - with a wide range of braces. It seems that there is a clear explanation given thru the ATF to the sellers and major retailers, not that the thing can be shouldered all the time but on occasion.
This is my take on the matter as a largely out side observer.
The first paragraph of the 2017 sig brace letter states that ATF stands by the conclussions of the 2015 open letter , the closing statements of the 2017 letter go on to state that sporadic, incidental or situational shouldering don’t “redesign” a firearm.

The same letter even mentions fixing the sig brace to the buffer tube at a length that has no other use than to be a stock is a no-no. As far as things go, I would buy a complete pistol with brace IF I was going to get one, pay the extra and don’t be the manufacturer or the guy who made or remade it with the intent to shoot from the shoulder.

If you don’t want to buy from a manufacturer, don’t want to submit to the NFA and want a compact shoulder fired firearm, the approved concept of the straight grooved barrel is the only real option
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Old 03-12-2018, 10:15 AM   #130
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There are certain legal advantages that a braced pistol has over a SBR. As Rmiller pointed out, he can "carry" it loaded under his IL CCL. But as he stated, it is a comprimise. The brace isn't as comfortable as a proper stock.

I don't think either one makes the other irrelevant.
Correct.

In my case the advantage of carrying it loaded, legally, is worth the compromise of no stock.
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Old 03-13-2018, 07:59 AM   #131
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Correct.

In my case the advantage of carrying it loaded, legally, is worth the compromise of no stock.
An SBR is a "firearm" and can be legally carried loaded/vehicle/concealed with license to carry firearms. I guess your state is different?
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Old 03-13-2018, 11:28 AM   #132
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Correct.

In my case the advantage of carrying it loaded, legally, is worth the compromise of no stock.
An SBR is a "firearm" and can be legally carried loaded/vehicle/concealed with license to carry firearms. I guess your state is different?
Here in Texas, an SBR is a "rifle" as far as carriage is concerned and needs no state licensing at all to carry.

Yes, different state laws vary widely on this subject.
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Old 03-13-2018, 11:36 AM   #133
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An SBR is a "firearm" and can be legally carried loaded/vehicle/concealed with license to carry firearms. I guess your state is different?
Yes it's different.

It has to be a pistol.

Rifles and other firearms have to be unloaded (not even a loaded mag inserted in the magwell) and in a case.
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Old 03-13-2018, 12:34 PM   #134
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So we are all in agreement that an owning an SBR is a whole new set of laws that apply and you are betting your freedom on knowing them 100%. Cause there's a liberal judge and jury who would love to splash your face all over the evening news.

For those who want to own an SBR and open yourself up to that liability, that is your right. But I will not put myself in that situation.
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Old 03-13-2018, 12:39 PM   #135
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So we are all in agreement that an owning an SBR is a whole new set of laws that apply and you are betting your freedom on knowing them 100%. Cause there's a liberal judge and jury who would love to splash your face all over the evening news.

For those who want to own an SBR and open yourself up to that liability, that is your right. But I will not put myself in that situation.
"Whole new set of laws"?

Not at all, or should I say "depends on your locality".

As previously stated, Texas law only gives a sh** about an approved tax form and after that treats SBRs & SBS' just like regular rifles & shotguns.


Aww, I just looked; you're a Texan whining like a Yankee or an Ill-and-annoyed resident.
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Old 03-13-2018, 12:47 PM   #136
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"Whole new set of laws"?

Not at all, or should I say "depends on your locality".

As previously stated, Texas law only gives a sh** about an approved tax form and after that treats SBRs & SBS' just like regular rifles & shotguns.


Aww, I just looked; you're a Texan whining like a Yankee or an Ill-and-annoyed resident.
Illinois does the same. If you have the stamp, illinois looks at it as just a rifle.

That said, rifles are not covered under our carry law.
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Old 03-13-2018, 10:29 PM   #137
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Michigan requires some SBRs to be registered as pistols. So we can conceal those with license. Nothing like driving with a semi auto G36K riding shotgun loaded.
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Old 03-25-2018, 07:56 PM   #138
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Nails is right in this case. Traveling interstate with a SBR is a breeze. I submit my form 20 each year to cover the lower 48 and I travel freely across state lines. I don't even think twice about it.
So how do you fill out line 7 on form 5320.20? It asked for a address (number, street, city, county, state, and zip code). If I travel from say Nevada to Montana through AZ,UT,ID, but I only have addresses in Nevada and Montana how do I fill out line 7 and NOT get rejected? SBRs are legal in all of these states, but I would only be passing through them. Interested how "all of the lower 48" gets approved?
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Old 03-26-2018, 12:39 AM   #139
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So how do you fill out line 7 on form 5320.20? It asked for a address (number, street, city, county, state, and zip code). If I travel from say Nevada to Montana through AZ,UT,ID, but I only have addresses in Nevada and Montana how do I fill out line 7 and NOT get rejected? SBRs are legal in all of these states, but I would only be passing through them. Interested how "all of the lower 48" gets approved?
This has been thoroughly explained multiple times throughout thread.

http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showth...48#post4473348


Knowledgeable NFA owners have been listing all 42-odd NFA-friendly states for years on their form 20 without issue.
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Old 03-27-2018, 12:54 AM   #140
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Most on here disagree (and even laugh), but I kept mine as pistols and added a good sling. I can stabilize the pistol with a sling about as well as I could with a stock.
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