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Old 04-20-2018, 08:37 PM   #36
mishaco
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I never really wanted a CETME-L. Hell, i tried not even to have a MARS CETME Sport, but everytime I'd sell/trade one off, another would get offered to me on a silver platter. After the 3rd time, i just took the hint and kept it.

I ended up with the L kits because Apex sent them to me to see if i liked them and could find someone to build them.
They sat in my floor for literally years.
I was about to sell the kits off, seeing that they had dried up and prices were rising, when Tim just off handedly said he could get them built for me.
So i sent them to him, and he sent them to HMG, and honestly after that i basically forgot about them for months.
Then we were talking in here about the HMG STG44, and people told me to get my kits back from HMG.
I was about to make contact and try and do just that, when without warning....two completed L rifles showed up.

It was an all around nice surprise, and since I'd paid for everything ages ago, basically a free one too.

Expecting shit reliability thanks to Ian's video, and figuring they'd feel like an HK33/93, which isn't my favorite rifle at all, i was all-around surprised again when my rifle was reliable and fun.

Therefore I'd say any happiness on my part is just from ending up with a nice, reliable rifle when before my expectations were quite low. Hell, i even thought I might have just lost 2 kits worth $400ish each in 2018. So to go from that to getting 2 rifles, yep, counting it as a 'win'.

Other rifles I didn't expect much out of and now like? CZ 805 Bren, Beretta ARX100, and even the FB Archer-01 (a bit anyway).

On the otherhand, there are some rifles i expected to love and in the end kind of felt 'meh' about like the HK93, FN FS2000 (come on, can you blame me?), HK MR556A1 (more a cost thing and a friend really wanted mine), and SIG556 Classic (so close, yet so not a Swiss SG551).

Keep in mind too that there really hasn't been much of any 'new' pattern of rifle on the market this year so far...few new variants of existing designs, but the L is definitely its own thing...be that a good thing or not.

The lesson is, just go into a gun purchase with low or no expectations lol.

And again, CETME-L is still better than L85A1...i'll argue that all evening if you like hehehe.
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Old 04-20-2018, 11:39 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mishaco View Post
I never really wanted a CETME-L. Hell, i tried not even to have a MARS CETME Sport, but everytime I'd sell/trade one off, another would get offered to me on a silver platter. After the 3rd time, i just took the hint and kept it.

I ended up with the L kits because Apex sent them to me to see if i liked them and could find someone to build them.
They sat in my floor for literally years.
I was about to sell the kits off, seeing that they had dried up and prices were rising, when Tim just off handedly said he could get them built for me.
So i sent them to him, and he sent them to HMG, and honestly after that i basically forgot about them for months.
Then we were talking in here about the HMG STG44, and people told me to get my kits back from HMG.
I was about to make contact and try and do just that, when without warning....two completed L rifles showed up.

It was an all around nice surprise, and since I'd paid for everything ages ago, basically a free one too.

Expecting shit reliability thanks to Ian's video, and figuring they'd feel like an HK33/93, which isn't my favorite rifle at all, i was all-around surprised again when my rifle was reliable and fun.

Therefore I'd say any happiness on my part is just from ending up with a nice, reliable rifle when before my expectations were quite low. Hell, i even thought I might have just lost 2 kits worth $400ish each in 2018. So to go from that to getting 2 rifles, yep, counting it as a 'win'.

Other rifles I didn't expect much out of and now like? CZ 805 Bren, Beretta ARX100, and even the FB Archer-01 (a bit anyway).

On the otherhand, there are some rifles i expected to love and in the end kind of felt 'meh' about like the HK93, FN FS2000 (come on, can you blame me?), HK MR556A1 (more a cost thing and a friend really wanted mine), and SIG556 Classic (so close, yet so not a Swiss SG551).

Keep in mind too that there really hasn't been much of any 'new' pattern of rifle on the market this year so far...few new variants of existing designs, but the L is definitely its own thing...be that a good thing or not.

The lesson is, just go into a gun purchase with low or no expectations lol.

And again, CETME-L is still better than L85A1...i'll argue that all evening if you like hehehe.




After the HK rebuild the Brit's are still using them so they can't be all bad.


Anyhow if you don't mind just wondering what did HMG charge you for the "L" Build?
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Old 04-21-2018, 01:42 PM   #38
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I said L85A1.....wasn't getting caught in the HK L85A2 trap.
Really the big thing with the whole SA80 program was just how much money it cost the British, when they could have just adopted a modified AUG like Austtralia.

Anyhow, the CETME-L was right at $1,500 total, including the parts kit.
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Old 04-21-2018, 04:40 PM   #39
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Not to derail, but what did you dislike about he FS2000? I’ve only put 6 mags through one but it’s been a bucket list rifle ever since.
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Old 04-21-2018, 08:28 PM   #40
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Oh lord, well while i don't really hate it, i do think it has been eclipsed by newer bullpups from the Steyr AUG A3 to the Tavor and X95.

some things....
Trigger isn't great at all, and this is a common thing to most bullpups.
No last round hold open, which while not a deal breaker, it is pretty unusual in the 21st century.
To check your chamber for a jam or whatever, you have to flip open the toilet seat. Not a big deal but still 1 more step.
Mags are the opposite of drop-free and require a good tug to remove.
Because of the magwell, it tends to be very picky, relaly only wanting metal US GI mags...and 30 rounders over 20.
The flash hider is pinned on, so you can't remove it to install a suppressor or a different device.
For some reason, FN doesn't include the bayo lug. Purely cosmetic but why not?
Sling attaching is pretty basic to say the least and again only specific styles/types will fit.
While the gun balances well and isn't really that heavy, it is bulkier and larger than it needs to be.
The cocking handle isn't reverseable so you have to run it on the left side no matter what.
Also the charging handle is a bit fragile, and can be broken without a ton of force (i know of this happening to friends at least twice).
Finally, it can be ammo sensitive, which is again one of those things often common to bullpups. Thing is when the AUG or Tavor jam up on a cartridge, they are pretty easy to clear and get back running. If the FS2000 chokes, often times you have to disassemble the rifle to clear the jam fully. This because of its very internalized operating system and 'unique' ejection port.

AGain, don't hate it, just think it is inferior to many other bullpups available today.
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Old 04-21-2018, 09:08 PM   #41
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Good video. Thanks!
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Old 04-22-2018, 12:50 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hansellhd View Post
I don't want to belabor the point. IMHO the "L" will always be a second rate Rifle fielded by a second rate power. The only reason they are popular amongst collectors is their rarity in N. America. I see no other attribute to owning one other than that. Reptile funny you should bring up the PSL. I feel the same way about that Rifle also, that's why I sold the one I had 5 years ago.

Part of this is just me playing Devil's advocate, no need to get hot under the collar.If you Guy's like the "L" well God Bless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mishaco View Post
Oh lord, well while i don't really hate it, i do think it has been eclipsed by newer bullpups from the Steyr AUG A3 to the Tavor and X95.

some things....
Trigger isn't great at all, and this is a common thing to most bullpups.
No last round hold open, which while not a deal breaker, it is pretty unusual in the 21st century.
To check your chamber for a jam or whatever, you have to flip open the toilet seat. Not a big deal but still 1 more step.
Mags are the opposite of drop-free and require a good tug to remove.
Because of the magwell, it tends to be very picky, relaly only wanting metal US GI mags...and 30 rounders over 20.
The flash hider is pinned on, so you can't remove it to install a suppressor or a different device.
For some reason, FN doesn't include the bayo lug. Purely cosmetic but why not?
Sling attaching is pretty basic to say the least and again only specific styles/types will fit.
While the gun balances well and isn't really that heavy, it is bulkier and larger than it needs to be.
The cocking handle isn't reverseable so you have to run it on the left side no matter what.
Also the charging handle is a bit fragile, and can be broken without a ton of force (i know of this happening to friends at least twice).
Finally, it can be ammo sensitive, which is again one of those things often common to bullpups. Thing is when the AUG or Tavor jam up on a cartridge, they are pretty easy to clear and get back running. If the FS2000 chokes, often times you have to disassemble the rifle to clear the jam fully. This because of its very internalized operating system and 'unique' ejection port.

AGain, don't hate it, just think it is inferior to many other bullpups available today.
Thanks! Guess I need to try some other bull pups now!
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Old 04-22-2018, 01:27 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hansellhd View Post
http://www.semiuk59.com/cetme-l-mailing-list-.html

This is the one I have a interest in. I like that it is offered with a Picatinny rail.
I have seen and handled the CETME Model L & LC that MarColMar had at the SAR show.
They are nice guns!
Lots of attention to detail and well finished.
I spoke to the gent who had test fired the guns and he remarked how well they handle.
I plan on owning the Model L!
Also, the Spanish Army deployed to Desert Storm with the Model L and LV.
The night vision units that they took with them were sold a year or so ago.
Some of the cases were tagged with the deployment info.
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Old 04-22-2018, 04:12 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Sledge303 View Post
I have seen and handled the CETME Model L & LC that MarColMar had at the SAR show.
They are nice guns!
Lots of attention to detail and well finished.
I spoke to the gent who had test fired the guns and he remarked how well they handle.
I plan on owning the Model L!
Also, the Spanish Army deployed to Desert Storm with the Model L and LV.
The night vision units that they took with them were sold a year or so ago.
Some of the cases were tagged with the deployment info.
Thanks, sounds good. If they are reasonably priced I will get one myself.
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Old 04-22-2018, 04:18 PM   #45
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As I'm not going into combat anytime soon. I'll keep my "L" mostly cause it's fun. There is a "what the fugizat" at the range from time to time, also equally fun. I don't consider it any better or worse than my 5.56 AR.

Were I going into combat intentionally well it really don't matter as long as it goes bang everytime.
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Old 04-22-2018, 04:56 PM   #46
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Can anyone share some detail photos of the HMG assembled CETME Model L?
I have heard a few things and would be interested to see if they are all built/finished that way. Its not so much the painted parts, they got the colour correct, its the metal and plastic.
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Old 04-22-2018, 07:17 PM   #47
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What about the metal and plastic?

All of the polymer on these is orig Spanish mfg.
Cocking tube, cocking handle, FCG housing, and bolt group are all original too.
The US parts are the receiver, barrel, and semi only disconnector (I think the trigger is original maybe?)
Since there is no gas system and it ships with a US mfg mag (3 parts), not that many American bits are required to make the 922(r) fans happy.

If you have specific questions, I'd be happy to try and answer them...and if they are visual, ask someone here to look for me.
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Old 04-22-2018, 11:26 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mishaco View Post
What about the metal and plastic?

All of the polymer on these is orig Spanish mfg.
Cocking tube, cocking handle, FCG housing, and bolt group are all original too.
The US parts are the receiver, barrel, and semi only disconnector (I think the trigger is original maybe?)
Since there is no gas system and it ships with a US mfg mag (3 parts), not that many American bits are required to make the 922(r) fans happy.

If you have specific questions, I'd be happy to try and answer them...and if they are visual, ask someone here to look for me.
Photos of HMG guns that I saw and one owner verified that the stock on his gun lacked the metal sling bar. The metal pocket was riveted into the stock, but the sling bar wasn't there. The metal parts retained the original (worn sometimes stained) finish, and where machining was done, the steel is bare.
HMG painted the receiver parts, but didn't parkerize the metal, even where they did modification work.
Is your gun that way also? Are they all that way?
Yours being built on a kit you supplied may be nicer.
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Old 04-23-2018, 03:13 AM   #49
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I am sure that one was missing the sling bar because the original kit was missing it to begin with.

My kits were sent to me by Apex in early 2015. They said they hand picked them for me. I am sure they aren't the best ever, but i think they are probably above average maybe?
I had no broken or missing parts, and the polymer had only scuffs and light scratches, no big chips or chunks missing. Also the rubber buttplates were in real good shape.
The bolt groups and other internals didn't look wornout either.
Both had the 3 prong flashhider, which i thought was neat. Others could have the closed hider.

I'll check on the metal later. I am on vacation right now, so the gun isn't to-hand ATM.

Watching the Forgotten Weapons video with the original CETME-L, it didn't look to be a perfectly made gun either.
I've heard Ian and Tim both say that they felt the HMG receiver was perhaps a little better than the original Spanish, but that could just be wishful thinking? I don't know.

I can tell you that the stock fits snug but without being so tight you need a tool to remove/install it. Likewise, the takedown pins are pretty tight but I can usually pull them out with just my hand (sometimes using a bullet tip to get them started though).
There was a bit of play in my handguard originally, but i fixed that pretty easily. All other parts fit well it seems to me and the ones that move, do so without gritt or grinding.

Not going to say its the nicest made machine ever, but it sure beats something like a Century CETME-C or C93 Sport.


Oh and the bayonet is neat too.
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Old 04-23-2018, 06:40 AM   #50
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We hope to see some of the MarColMar Cetme L rifles soon , They do top notch work we have a few of their rifles like the PKM and VZ 59. Thanks to Mishaco for all his hard work on these Historically informative reviews ! They are chock full of good info.


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Old 04-23-2018, 09:23 AM   #51
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We hope to see some of the MarColMar Cetme L rifles soon , They do top notch work we have a few of their rifles like the PKM and VZ 59. Thanks to Mishaco for all his hard work on these Historically informative reviews ! They are chock full of good info.


Any idea on a price point yet?
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Old 04-23-2018, 05:34 PM   #52
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Thanks Atlantic, and a friend has a MarColMar UK VZ59. He loves it and has very positive things to say about the company.
He has visited their owner at his home a couple times too.
While i won't describe what he has to honor his privacy, its safe to say the man has some very very nice toys. He collects more than smallarms too.

Maybe I'll look into getting a MarColMar CETME-LC?
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